RE: Fortunes of Lotus on the up!
Discussion
All this talk about a potential Lotus SUV is based around the UK's and Europe's idea of what an SUV should be. I doubt we'll ever see any Lotus SUV officially for sale over here or in Europe so it won't need to be comparable to what's on sale here. It needs to appeal to the marketplace in which it will be sold which has different tastes to this part of the globe. Pointless discussing it really unless you change your outlook to suit the market on the other side of the world.
Do you mean the Premium end of the Eastern markets (EVEN more east than Norfolk!) ? Or the basic end? I've no idea how well known the Lotus brand is in India / Africa / China etc but I'm sure there is no point Lotus being anywhere other than the premium / specialist end of the market.
In that market, these Eastern customers are very demanding of tech and materials and percieved quality. No less than in the mature markets of Europe and NA. I'm not sure a car to compete with Velar and Macan in these less mature markets is any easier to develop and produce. I also think the European brand / reputation is important to those markets. I feel it were to happen, I'm sure it would launch in Europe first.
In that market, these Eastern customers are very demanding of tech and materials and percieved quality. No less than in the mature markets of Europe and NA. I'm not sure a car to compete with Velar and Macan in these less mature markets is any easier to develop and produce. I also think the European brand / reputation is important to those markets. I feel it were to happen, I'm sure it would launch in Europe first.
Well I for one am happy if Lotus' fortunes are on the up, boy they've been through a long slump, as long in fact as the one before the Elise came along.
I also really want the new Alpine to be a success. They've always been a French Lotus, or Lotus was a British Alpine, depending on which way you look at it.
I want more lightweight sports cars based on more than just power and grip.....the Alfa Romeo 4C was so promising, its a real shame they didn't do it justice.......
Given the obvious market for sports cars under 30k, I'd prefer them to forget SUV nonsense, stick to what they do best and build enough sports cars to make a profit; build a factory in Hungary or wherever if needs be. Whilst the MX5 has always been good, something needs to come along and really challenge it. Who better?
Lotus SUV? For Christs sake.
Lotus SUV? For Christs sake.
iSore said:
Given the obvious market for sports cars under 30k, I'd prefer them to forget SUV nonsense, stick to what they do best and build enough sports cars to make a profit; build a factory in Hungary or wherever if needs be. Whilst the MX5 has always been good, something needs to come along and really challenge it. Who better?
Lotus SUV? For Christs sake.
In this thread you are heavy on hyperbole but light on a compelling argument as to why it's a bad idea for Lotus (other than the fact that iSore doesn't like it). Lotus SUV? For Christs sake.
HustleRussell said:
iSore said:
Given the obvious market for sports cars under 30k, I'd prefer them to forget SUV nonsense, stick to what they do best and build enough sports cars to make a profit; build a factory in Hungary or wherever if needs be. Whilst the MX5 has always been good, something needs to come along and really challenge it. Who better?
Lotus SUV? For Christs sake.
In this thread you are heavy on hyperbole but light on a compelling argument as to why it's a bad idea for Lotus (other than the fact that iSore doesn't like it). Lotus SUV? For Christs sake.
under 30k
guaranteed to make a fortune. in PH land...
which is why most manufacturers gave up and just adapted their other platforms.
iSore said:
Given the obvious market for sports cars under 30k, I'd prefer them to forget SUV nonsense, stick to what they do best and build enough sports cars to make a profit; build a factory in Hungary or wherever if needs be. Whilst the MX5 has always been good, something needs to come along and really challenge it. Who better?:
The cost in producing the Elise is not labour - or at least, making it in Hungary wouldn't make the slightest difference to the price. If you want something like the MX-5, you need to have a factory designed to make hundreds of thousands, not handfuls of thousands, and you need to drop all the clever aluminium chassis stuff - that's where the cost lies.A mass produced car at MX-5 would be.. well, the MX-5. And only Mazda, Toyota, VW or one of the largest manufacturers could make it. You just can't get the economies of scale otherwise.
So, Lotus couldn't make it, and if they did they wouldn't be able to do what they do in the Elise, Exige or Evora.
aaron_2000 said:
Base Elis is just over £31K, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure an ex demo or some talking would get it a hair under £30K though.
to be viable they need to sell more models at the higher price and with options.A110 is an interesting comparison. big company behind the project, small and straightforward car really. 60k
CABC said:
to be viable they need to sell more models at the higher price and with options.
That, and to make the car more appealing in general. They did that with the M110 Elan - a cracking car but way too expensive. There is always that sweet spot - Audi only really found it with the A4 20 odd years ago.Lotus seem to be a company that existed forever, in the background.
HustleRussell said:
In this thread you are heavy on hyperbole but light on a compelling argument as to why it's a bad idea for Lotus (other than the fact that iSore doesn't like it).
In that case, why not an Ariel SUV? Or a Westfield SUV? Maybe Singer can do the Cayenne? Not every company needs an SUV, Crossover, EV, Saloon, Hatchback with a 2.0 4 banger. Is it wrong for a company to stay different? If we want every car to be the same why doesn't every car maker team up and make 1 giant car company to mass produce silver, black or white blobs with 2.0 4 pots and electric motors for us all to buy? aaron_2000 said:
HustleRussell said:
In this thread you are heavy on hyperbole but light on a compelling argument as to why it's a bad idea for Lotus (other than the fact that iSore doesn't like it).
In that case, why not an Ariel SUV? Or a Westfield SUV? Maybe Singer can do the Cayenne? Not every company needs an SUV, Crossover, EV, Saloon, Hatchback with a 2.0 4 banger. Is it wrong for a company to stay different? If we want every car to be the same why doesn't every car maker team up and make 1 giant car company to mass produce silver, black or white blobs with 2.0 4 pots and electric motors for us all to buy? FWIW I’m guessing Ariel and Westfield aren’t doing it because they have neither the funds to invest nor the international connections to bring such a product to market. When SUVs and soft-roaders constitute such a large proportion of cars sold, you’d have to be mad to have the ability to sell one but opt not to because iSore and aaron_2000 wouldn’t like it
aaron_2000 said:
In that case, why not an Ariel SUV? Or a Westfield SUV? Maybe Singer can do the Cayenne? Not every company needs an SUV, Crossover, EV, Saloon, Hatchback with a 2.0 4 banger. Is it wrong for a company to stay different? If we want every car to be the same why doesn't every car maker team up and make 1 giant car company to mass produce silver, black or white blobs with 2.0 4 pots and electric motors for us all to buy?
Ariel do an SUV already, the Nomad 
HustleRussell said:
Again, lots of opinion but still no explanation why it’s a bad idea for Lotus?
FWIW I’m guessing Ariel and Westfield aren’t doing it because they have neither the funds to invest nor the international connections to bring such a product to market. When SUVs and soft-roaders constitute such a large proportion of cars sold, you’d have to be mad to have the ability to sell one but opt not to because iSore and aaron_2000 wouldn’t like it
Mass produced generic blobs aren't bad ideas, they'll sell to sheeple that want nothing but an appliance, I don't really get what you're doing on PH if that's all you want from a Lotus. FWIW I’m guessing Ariel and Westfield aren’t doing it because they have neither the funds to invest nor the international connections to bring such a product to market. When SUVs and soft-roaders constitute such a large proportion of cars sold, you’d have to be mad to have the ability to sell one but opt not to because iSore and aaron_2000 wouldn’t like it
Great that they are doing well, I am not a fan of the Evora, the roofline grates on me, but by all accounts its a wonderful thing, the Elise constantly appeals, it seems they have their mojo back.
Would love to see them back in the action at Le Mans.
But... to appeal to the 0.004% of people that want an SUV because of its sporty ability appears to be commercial suicide, it seems an SUV only makes sense when mass produced using a pre existing chassis and minimal outlay either by creating that chassis and selling it on or using it by means of being part of the company who produce it have done the legwork.
Its not going to attract the high prices of a full fat Range Rover or Bentley, it will struggle to match the established fashionable brands who are platform sharing and 15 years ahead in development with Audi, Porsche, Merc and BMW. So that leaves the cheaper end with work horses from Japan, Ford, the French and Vauxhall, and I doubt they can produce it cheaply enough for that. They either have to produce something so luxurious and desirable to match Bentley or cheap and reliable for the bottom end, neither of which suits their history or current ability(in terms of luxury or cheap reliability)
A modern shooting break type Eclat or Europa to satisfy the GT range and keep developing their existing models, get back in to top line motorsports and gradually build on their current base would seem sensible. Lotus have always seemed to appeal by being different, why stop now?
Would love to see them back in the action at Le Mans.
But... to appeal to the 0.004% of people that want an SUV because of its sporty ability appears to be commercial suicide, it seems an SUV only makes sense when mass produced using a pre existing chassis and minimal outlay either by creating that chassis and selling it on or using it by means of being part of the company who produce it have done the legwork.
Its not going to attract the high prices of a full fat Range Rover or Bentley, it will struggle to match the established fashionable brands who are platform sharing and 15 years ahead in development with Audi, Porsche, Merc and BMW. So that leaves the cheaper end with work horses from Japan, Ford, the French and Vauxhall, and I doubt they can produce it cheaply enough for that. They either have to produce something so luxurious and desirable to match Bentley or cheap and reliable for the bottom end, neither of which suits their history or current ability(in terms of luxury or cheap reliability)
A modern shooting break type Eclat or Europa to satisfy the GT range and keep developing their existing models, get back in to top line motorsports and gradually build on their current base would seem sensible. Lotus have always seemed to appeal by being different, why stop now?
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