RE: Shed(s) of the Week: Alfa 166/BMW 5 Series
Discussion
PoopahScoopah said:
strangehighways said:
I'm an Alfa fan boy so I think my choice is obvious. I owned a 166 a couple of years ago.
I'd enjoy either car though, but the BMW would have to have the 2.8 to have a chance of being picked.
Quite surprised that many would prefer the Autobox on the Alfa. Though it is an executive car, these days in the hands of an enthusiast the manual would be much more fun and with the wonderful flexible nature of the V6, you don't have to keep changing gears all the time (you will want to though to rev out the busso). Ok, it isn't the most torquey V6, but it pulls cleanly from tickover to redline. I haven't driven the Auto but I think it only has 4 ratios, as opposed to the 6 speed manual box. Also, I've read that the Auto really saps power.
Not sure I agree with the following...
"Not brilliantly well made mind. The interior plastics on the first one were nasty and well out of kilter with the high asking price Alfa GB asked for it on launch (around £28K)"
The 166 is WAY better made than the other Alfas of the time and so it should be if competing with the E-Class and the 5 series. I've had a 164, GTV and 156 and 166, and the 166 is miles ahead for build quality. I don't agree the interior plastics are poor.
Great things about the 166 - V6 is masterful and sounds amazing, nice gearbox (though the throw is a bit long), great interior, comfy seats, rarity, looks (ok the front is a bit odd but from certain angles looks good, the side profile is amazing and the rear is good), razor sharp throttle response (there's a button that sharpens response up when pressed).
Bad - floaty at high speed which can be disconcerting especially in the UK where there are some terrible stretches of motorway with bumps and dips. Front wheel drive, which can get a bit tedious when pushing it, unspectacular economy (24/25mpg combined, maximum on a run would be 28-30).
Yay, some sense at last! I'd enjoy either car though, but the BMW would have to have the 2.8 to have a chance of being picked.
Quite surprised that many would prefer the Autobox on the Alfa. Though it is an executive car, these days in the hands of an enthusiast the manual would be much more fun and with the wonderful flexible nature of the V6, you don't have to keep changing gears all the time (you will want to though to rev out the busso). Ok, it isn't the most torquey V6, but it pulls cleanly from tickover to redline. I haven't driven the Auto but I think it only has 4 ratios, as opposed to the 6 speed manual box. Also, I've read that the Auto really saps power.
Not sure I agree with the following...
"Not brilliantly well made mind. The interior plastics on the first one were nasty and well out of kilter with the high asking price Alfa GB asked for it on launch (around £28K)"
The 166 is WAY better made than the other Alfas of the time and so it should be if competing with the E-Class and the 5 series. I've had a 164, GTV and 156 and 166, and the 166 is miles ahead for build quality. I don't agree the interior plastics are poor.
Great things about the 166 - V6 is masterful and sounds amazing, nice gearbox (though the throw is a bit long), great interior, comfy seats, rarity, looks (ok the front is a bit odd but from certain angles looks good, the side profile is amazing and the rear is good), razor sharp throttle response (there's a button that sharpens response up when pressed).
Bad - floaty at high speed which can be disconcerting especially in the UK where there are some terrible stretches of motorway with bumps and dips. Front wheel drive, which can get a bit tedious when pushing it, unspectacular economy (24/25mpg combined, maximum on a run would be 28-30).
Edited by strangehighways on Friday 18th August 12:57
Shed's comments about build quality are way off the mark. 166s have a wonderfully solid feel and loads of neat little touches. Just closing the drivers door you feel the weight of it and then a nice soft thud. Yes there are areas of painted plastic interior trim and these are known to go soft and sticky with age, but it's mostly compensated by the acres of soft leather laid in a wonderful flowing design. The whole cockpit has an enveloping feel to it, and it is in the most part very cohesive. But it can also feel a little claustrophobic, which for a car of this sort won't be everybody's cup of tea.
The pre facelift nose is a very marmite design and I think that's why I love it. Is it really ugly? Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess. I acknowledge it's not classically good looking but I love the fact it's different, rather something distinctive and divisive than bland and boring. In the right colour, with the official Zender sport bodykit and a mild lowering they look phenomenal IMO. So much better than the facelift version which so many people seem to give credit for - yes it has broader appeal but only because it is bloody boring. The front styling no longer fits with the tail on the FL, which is another gripe.
It's been about 3 years since I got rid of mine. I had it for about the same time and it was a love/hate relationship. Nothing went wrong, it was dependable and solid, made a lovely noise, I liked it's rarity, it was comfortable in many ways...............but it frustrated me in many ways too. I used to take the P out of the saddos who would bleat on about Alfas having a soul and the feeling of an emotional connection you just don't get with other cars. I still think it's a crazy notion, but something must have been there, something I can't put my finger on, becuase I've missed my 166 ever since I got rid of it. I still have Alfa 166 as a saved eBay search and looks at the listing that get emailed to me.
So, on the basis of this week's choice it's the 166 for me. It's not the tidiest example mind. New exhaust a and a PDR guy to sort the boot would make an immediate improvement. And as I said last week, it's not "nearly due" a cambelt change, it's past it's interval if you go by the more commonly accepted recommendation to do it every 4 years. So that's another ~£500 IIRC. Yeah, yeah, I know, this is shedding, we're not supposed to bother with such frivolous maintenance, just hope you get a year out of it, but it's a Busso, do you really want to have the death of such a wonderful engine on your conscience?
Edited by PoopahScoopah on Friday 18th August 16:26
Edited by PoopahScoopah on Friday 18th August 16:27
It's a strange proposition. Not overly powerful but feels way more athletic than the figures suggest. Very tractable but thrives on revs...Oh the noise! Bit of a boat to drive and the braking performance is lacklustre considering the big brembos fitted.
A face only a mother could love yet a 3/4 profile and a interior combo of best in the business leather, squidgy plastics and Italian ergonomics.
Mine's pretty decent but needs some work to be back on the road, parts are an arse and its a swine to work on. I'm not even a big Alfa fan yet I can't bear to part with it. I think I need to get my finger out and get it sorted.
No particular love for the E39...
Edited by Fattyfat on Sunday 27th August 14:55
Other than the low mileage that's a pretty poor example of the kind of e39 that can be had for that kind of budget.
I've just bought a facelift 2002 530i SE, full leather, 2 owners from new, full BMW service history 108k on the clock for £1200. I would've liked a sport but a 530i of any flavour with a manual box at that money was always gonna be tempting. Pixels are gone on the stereo but that's a simple fix. Very happy so far (touch wood). I do like an Alfa and would love a 156GTA but the prices have gone crazy. The 166 just doesn't do it for me though; odd proportions, gonky front end and FWD, the Busso V6 is the only highlight imho. That said, I'd have that 166 over that particular 5series.
I've just bought a facelift 2002 530i SE, full leather, 2 owners from new, full BMW service history 108k on the clock for £1200. I would've liked a sport but a 530i of any flavour with a manual box at that money was always gonna be tempting. Pixels are gone on the stereo but that's a simple fix. Very happy so far (touch wood). I do like an Alfa and would love a 156GTA but the prices have gone crazy. The 166 just doesn't do it for me though; odd proportions, gonky front end and FWD, the Busso V6 is the only highlight imho. That said, I'd have that 166 over that particular 5series.
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