Discussion
M-SportMatt said:
Given the issues they had with producing a low volume high performance model ( see Mk2 and Mk1 FRS - neither made fully on the main production line, Mk1 sold at a loss, Mk2 quality issues ) then unless they can integrate into the main production line ( hence 5 dr focus rs this time ) and produce it at a profit then i doubt it.
Never say never but there is no real need and dare I say it no real market.
A lot of Halo models end up being sold at a loss though, especially the lower volume ones becuase there isn't enough units sold to cover the development. Especially if said Halo is showing off some fancy new tech.Never say never but there is no real need and dare I say it no real market.
That is exactly what they are for though, showing off tech, marketing and brand building. The Mk1 for example, it kind of brought Ford back into the fray. It had been a while since we got an RS model. We'd had the ST24 and ST200 Mondeos since the Escort RS2000 4x4 died but the Focus RS was Fords chance to come back with a bang. I'm sure they made way more than the loss on the Focus RS units back in sales on lower Focus models thanks to the marketing job the RS did. It's one of the best hot hatches ever made, that's some marketing you just can't buy.
Aside from the Focus RS being substantially bigger than my Sierra, and a LOT bigger than the Escort RS Cosworth, have you seen the US Ford Fusion EcoBoost? 2.7 V6 turbo, 4 wheel drive. (Their Fusion is our Mondeo)
No, there's no big spoiler or flared wheel arches, an awful auto box and it weighs about as much as Rhode Island, but it does have 325hp and 380lb ft. It exists more to emphasise that the Mondeo is more like a big Granada than a Sierra / Cortina. Ford should be marketing it more in the RS6 category. They took their eye off the ball when they owned Jaguar, they dared not produce a sporty fast Mondeo because is would have further reduced the X-Type sales. The ST220 V6 and 2.5T engines were capable of much more and they never seemed to get marketed properly.
No, there's no big spoiler or flared wheel arches, an awful auto box and it weighs about as much as Rhode Island, but it does have 325hp and 380lb ft. It exists more to emphasise that the Mondeo is more like a big Granada than a Sierra / Cortina. Ford should be marketing it more in the RS6 category. They took their eye off the ball when they owned Jaguar, they dared not produce a sporty fast Mondeo because is would have further reduced the X-Type sales. The ST220 V6 and 2.5T engines were capable of much more and they never seemed to get marketed properly.
Nobody buys Mondeos with their own money really do they ? very decent car, chap sat opposite me has one, its a company car, its huge and he didnt want sporty, the Mondeo isnt an image car, I am sure they could do a 350 bhp 4wd one but it would be a bit of a lump and they would sell about 10, mainly to Police forces, like with the Insignia, it is a question not many are asking these days.
Ford are still catering for the market, just kind of historic model down but a size or two up, the nearest successors to the Sierra Cosworth really is more stuff like the C63, RS4 and M3, it just isnt really a market Ford Services nowadays, even in the Focus RS is bigger, faster and more powerful than the Sierra ever was.
its weird that the Sierra, at the time seemed more exotic than the C63 etc does now, they really did stand out back them.
Ford are still catering for the market, just kind of historic model down but a size or two up, the nearest successors to the Sierra Cosworth really is more stuff like the C63, RS4 and M3, it just isnt really a market Ford Services nowadays, even in the Focus RS is bigger, faster and more powerful than the Sierra ever was.
its weird that the Sierra, at the time seemed more exotic than the C63 etc does now, they really did stand out back them.
J4CKO said:
its weird that the Sierra, at the time seemed more exotic than the C63 etc does now, they really did stand out back them.
It certainly did. I remember seeing my first cossie on the road as a yoof, I said then I would have one and I eventually did, put nearly 100K miles on mine. 
The last 'biggish' Fast Ford (pointless getting into a car-size category debate - since the metric changes depending on what continent and decade you're talking about) would have been the Mondeo ST 220 in my book.
The modern Mondeo ST is just a glorified trim level - which is a shame, because fast saloons are fun in their own unique way.
The modern Mondeo ST is just a glorified trim level - which is a shame, because fast saloons are fun in their own unique way.
Current Mondeo is sold as a fusion in the US as mentioned above Same car btw not just the same platform
Lucky butters get a twin turbo v6 ecoboost 4wd making 325bhp
Knock that up to somewhere approaching 375-400 bhp stick on a cosworth badge and sell it for around 26-27k you would clean house with the Germans.
Basing this on the fact I can order right now a fully species brand new xpack 150 with led headlights and leather for 21k quoted this last week from my dealer
Fully specced with AWD and a few more horses and toys is 24k
Don't see why a v6 and some sportier suspension couldn't be swapped in for another 2-3k and still churned out for a profit
Even allowing for some cosworth fettling and some recalls and I still reckon Ford could turn it out under 30k
Would be great to see another cosworth badged RS Ford.
If they ever do and offer an estate I'm all over one
Lucky butters get a twin turbo v6 ecoboost 4wd making 325bhp
Knock that up to somewhere approaching 375-400 bhp stick on a cosworth badge and sell it for around 26-27k you would clean house with the Germans.
Basing this on the fact I can order right now a fully species brand new xpack 150 with led headlights and leather for 21k quoted this last week from my dealer
Fully specced with AWD and a few more horses and toys is 24k
Don't see why a v6 and some sportier suspension couldn't be swapped in for another 2-3k and still churned out for a profit
Even allowing for some cosworth fettling and some recalls and I still reckon Ford could turn it out under 30k
Would be great to see another cosworth badged RS Ford.
If they ever do and offer an estate I'm all over one
Glasgowrob said:
Current Mondeo is sold as a fusion in the US as mentioned above Same car btw not just the same platform
Lucky butters get a twin turbo v6 ecoboost 4wd making 325bhp
Knock that up to somewhere approaching 375-400 bhp stick on a cosworth badge and sell it for around 26-27k you would clean house with the Germans.
Basing this on the fact I can order right now a fully species brand new xpack 150 with led headlights and leather for 21k quoted this last week from my dealer
Fully specced with AWD and a few more horses and toys is 24k
Don't see why a v6 and some sportier suspension couldn't be swapped in for another 2-3k and still churned out for a profit
Even allowing for some cosworth fettling and some recalls and I still reckon Ford could turn it out under 30k
Would be great to see another cosworth badged RS Ford.
If they ever do and offer an estate I'm all over one
Even if the economics worked, why on earth would they do it? Focus RS is £30k+ so it just wouldn't fit in the range at that price.Lucky butters get a twin turbo v6 ecoboost 4wd making 325bhp
Knock that up to somewhere approaching 375-400 bhp stick on a cosworth badge and sell it for around 26-27k you would clean house with the Germans.
Basing this on the fact I can order right now a fully species brand new xpack 150 with led headlights and leather for 21k quoted this last week from my dealer
Fully specced with AWD and a few more horses and toys is 24k
Don't see why a v6 and some sportier suspension couldn't be swapped in for another 2-3k and still churned out for a profit
Even allowing for some cosworth fettling and some recalls and I still reckon Ford could turn it out under 30k
Would be great to see another cosworth badged RS Ford.
If they ever do and offer an estate I'm all over one
Times have moved on since the RS/Cosworth glory days. The Germans have captured the market for the "compact executive" segment because most people want the 2.0 TDi version of whichever badge sparkles best on their driveway. And anyone who wants performance over economy goes for an M/AMG version. The Germans have been very successful developing the technology, and they have been marketed aggressively for the last 25 years. Ford hasn't followed this path, and are too far behind.
The only way I could see it working would be to produce a proper Mondeo Cosworth, but on a proper limited production run. So say 500 units sold (in the UK) for £35-40k ish. The Cosworth badge would probably be enough to bring out the hardcore fans.
300bhp/ton said:
Full size car is a funny thing though.
Arguably today's Focus is pretty similar in size to a Sierra and aimed largely at the same demographic and the same use. It's just a slightly different shape.
And remember the Mondeo might be a full size UK Ford. But the Jaguar X-Type was built on the same platform and was known as the "baby" Jaguar.
The original Mondeo was also sold in the USA and most certainly was not considered a full size car over there.
I know what you are getting at. But today's Focus ST and RS are perfect equals for yesteryears Cosworths.
It may have been based on a Mondeo platform but they shortened the wheel base by four inches as otherwise it would have had more rear legroom than the bigger Jags, pecking order and all that.Arguably today's Focus is pretty similar in size to a Sierra and aimed largely at the same demographic and the same use. It's just a slightly different shape.
And remember the Mondeo might be a full size UK Ford. But the Jaguar X-Type was built on the same platform and was known as the "baby" Jaguar.
The original Mondeo was also sold in the USA and most certainly was not considered a full size car over there.
I know what you are getting at. But today's Focus ST and RS are perfect equals for yesteryears Cosworths.
LandRoverManiac said:
The modern Mondeo ST is just a glorified trim level - which is a shame, because fast saloons are fun in their own unique way.
There isn't a "modern" Mondeo ST. There hasn't been one since the mk3 ST220 stopped being made in 2007. There is an ST-Line, but it isn't a glorified trim level, it is a trim level.
J4CKO said:
the nearest successors to the Sierra Cosworth really is more stuff like the C63, RS4 and M3, it just isnt really a market Ford Services nowadays, even in the Focus RS is bigger, faster and more powerful than the Sierra ever was.
I'm not sure about that. I think the Cosworth was £17k when it came out, compared to something like a 944 turbo that was about £25k. That showed in the German cars build quality. 
LandRoverManiac said:
The last 'biggish' Fast Ford (pointless getting into a car-size category debate - since the metric changes depending on what continent and decade you're talking about) would have been the Mondeo ST 220 in my book.
The modern Mondeo ST is just a glorified trim level - which is a shame, because fast saloons are fun in their own unique way.
i remember this from when i was a teen, what years where they made, googling it i distinctly remember that blue colour and those alloys. such a shame nothing like it in the mondeo now over here.The modern Mondeo ST is just a glorified trim level - which is a shame, because fast saloons are fun in their own unique way.
Zetec-S said:
Glasgowrob said:
Current Mondeo is sold as a fusion in the US as mentioned above Same car btw not just the same platform
Lucky butters get a twin turbo v6 ecoboost 4wd making 325bhp
Knock that up to somewhere approaching 375-400 bhp stick on a cosworth badge and sell it for around 26-27k you would clean house with the Germans.
Basing this on the fact I can order right now a fully species brand new xpack 150 with led headlights and leather for 21k quoted this last week from my dealer
Fully specced with AWD and a few more horses and toys is 24k
Don't see why a v6 and some sportier suspension couldn't be swapped in for another 2-3k and still churned out for a profit
Even allowing for some cosworth fettling and some recalls and I still reckon Ford could turn it out under 30k
Would be great to see another cosworth badged RS Ford.
If they ever do and offer an estate I'm all over one
Even if the economics worked, why on earth would they do it? Focus RS is £30k+ so it just wouldn't fit in the range at that price.Lucky butters get a twin turbo v6 ecoboost 4wd making 325bhp
Knock that up to somewhere approaching 375-400 bhp stick on a cosworth badge and sell it for around 26-27k you would clean house with the Germans.
Basing this on the fact I can order right now a fully species brand new xpack 150 with led headlights and leather for 21k quoted this last week from my dealer
Fully specced with AWD and a few more horses and toys is 24k
Don't see why a v6 and some sportier suspension couldn't be swapped in for another 2-3k and still churned out for a profit
Even allowing for some cosworth fettling and some recalls and I still reckon Ford could turn it out under 30k
Would be great to see another cosworth badged RS Ford.
If they ever do and offer an estate I'm all over one
Times have moved on since the RS/Cosworth glory days. The Germans have captured the market for the "compact executive" segment because most people want the 2.0 TDi version of whichever badge sparkles best on their driveway. And anyone who wants performance over economy goes for an M/AMG version. The Germans have been very successful developing the technology, and they have been marketed aggressively for the last 25 years. Ford hasn't followed this path, and are too far behind.
The only way I could see it working would be to produce a proper Mondeo Cosworth, but on a proper limited production run. So say 500 units sold (in the UK) for £35-40k ish. The Cosworth badge would probably be enough to bring out the hardcore fans.
blade7 said:
J4CKO said:
the nearest successors to the Sierra Cosworth really is more stuff like the C63, RS4 and M3, it just isnt really a market Ford Services nowadays, even in the Focus RS is bigger, faster and more powerful than the Sierra ever was.
I'm not sure about that. I think the Cosworth was £17k when it came out, compared to something like a 944 turbo that was about £25k. That showed in the German cars build quality. Once those cars went to bigger 6 and 8 pots with stuff like the E36 M3 and C36/43 AMG Ford had nothing to compete with them so got dropped from the race
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