RE: BMW M5 (F90) full details
Discussion
This might seem apples and oranges but if you can use the power of a 1000cc superbike in the UK, you can use 600hp.
And if you're stuck in 0-> 10 mph - > 0 traffic then anything more than 50hp is pointless innit?
My cousin has an F360 and manages to use all the power, even going from North London to just outside London on B-road like a trip we just took - and the M5 while being quicker isn't a lot quicker (0-60mph times for both are in the 3s, albeit high 3s for the 360).
For me the issue is more that the power figures seem to be arbitrary - surely an M550i could be tuned up to 600hp very easily by flashing the ECU, which means that the M5 engine could probably handle 800hp + (Brabus was making those figures in the early aughts with V8 MBs). One got the sense from earlier M5s that everything, including the engines were turned to their very limit while maintaining reliability.
Further, turbos just aren't desirable for most enthusiasts (and I say that as a Subaru owner) unless one can maintain engine character - something, MBs have managed but BMW still struggles with. I realize that this is probably the future (I'm hoping that turbos will disappear in performance cars and just do the NA + electric thing), but making one's high performance offerings SEEM like just a tuned-up M550i doesn't bode well for the future. At least Mercedes has the good sense to no longer offer a V8 except in full-fat AMG guise
And if you're stuck in 0-> 10 mph - > 0 traffic then anything more than 50hp is pointless innit?
My cousin has an F360 and manages to use all the power, even going from North London to just outside London on B-road like a trip we just took - and the M5 while being quicker isn't a lot quicker (0-60mph times for both are in the 3s, albeit high 3s for the 360).
For me the issue is more that the power figures seem to be arbitrary - surely an M550i could be tuned up to 600hp very easily by flashing the ECU, which means that the M5 engine could probably handle 800hp + (Brabus was making those figures in the early aughts with V8 MBs). One got the sense from earlier M5s that everything, including the engines were turned to their very limit while maintaining reliability.
Further, turbos just aren't desirable for most enthusiasts (and I say that as a Subaru owner) unless one can maintain engine character - something, MBs have managed but BMW still struggles with. I realize that this is probably the future (I'm hoping that turbos will disappear in performance cars and just do the NA + electric thing), but making one's high performance offerings SEEM like just a tuned-up M550i doesn't bode well for the future. At least Mercedes has the good sense to no longer offer a V8 except in full-fat AMG guise
BlackPrince said:
This might seem apples and oranges but if you can use the power of a 1000cc superbike in the UK, you can use 600hp.
And if you're stuck in 0-> 10 mph - > 0 traffic then anything more than 50hp is pointless innit?
My cousin has an F360 and manages to use all the power, even going from North London to just outside London on B-road like a trip we just took - and the M5 while being quicker isn't a lot quicker (0-60mph times for both are in the 3s, albeit high 3s for the 360).
For me the issue is more that the power figures seem to be arbitrary - surely an M550i could be tuned up to 600hp very easily by flashing the ECU, which means that the M5 engine could probably handle 800hp + (Brabus was making those figures in the early aughts with V8 MBs). One got the sense from earlier M5s that everything, including the engines were turned to their very limit while maintaining reliability.
Further, turbos just aren't desirable for most enthusiasts (and I say that as a Subaru owner) unless one can maintain engine character - something, MBs have managed but BMW still struggles with. I realize that this is probably the future (I'm hoping that turbos will disappear in performance cars and just do the NA + electric thing), but making one's high performance offerings SEEM like just a tuned-up M550i doesn't bode well for the future. At least Mercedes has the good sense to no longer offer a V8 except in full-fat AMG guise
The 'can't use all the power' is a London thing.And if you're stuck in 0-> 10 mph - > 0 traffic then anything more than 50hp is pointless innit?
My cousin has an F360 and manages to use all the power, even going from North London to just outside London on B-road like a trip we just took - and the M5 while being quicker isn't a lot quicker (0-60mph times for both are in the 3s, albeit high 3s for the 360).
For me the issue is more that the power figures seem to be arbitrary - surely an M550i could be tuned up to 600hp very easily by flashing the ECU, which means that the M5 engine could probably handle 800hp + (Brabus was making those figures in the early aughts with V8 MBs). One got the sense from earlier M5s that everything, including the engines were turned to their very limit while maintaining reliability.
Further, turbos just aren't desirable for most enthusiasts (and I say that as a Subaru owner) unless one can maintain engine character - something, MBs have managed but BMW still struggles with. I realize that this is probably the future (I'm hoping that turbos will disappear in performance cars and just do the NA + electric thing), but making one's high performance offerings SEEM like just a tuned-up M550i doesn't bode well for the future. At least Mercedes has the good sense to no longer offer a V8 except in full-fat AMG guise
Up north, we get to use it comfortably*
(*when it's not raining)
BlackPrince said:
This might seem apples and oranges but if you can use the power of a 1000cc superbike in the UK, you can use 600hp.
And if you're stuck in 0-> 10 mph - > 0 traffic then anything more than 50hp is pointless innit?
My cousin has an F360 and manages to use all the power, even going from North London to just outside London on B-road like a trip we just took - and the M5 while being quicker isn't a lot quicker (0-60mph times for both are in the 3s, albeit high 3s for the 360).
For me the issue is more that the power figures seem to be arbitrary - surely an M550i could be tuned up to 600hp very easily by flashing the ECU, which means that the M5 engine could probably handle 800hp + (Brabus was making those figures in the early aughts with V8 MBs). One got the sense from earlier M5s that everything, including the engines were turned to their very limit while maintaining reliability.
Further, turbos just aren't desirable for most enthusiasts (and I say that as a Subaru owner) unless one can maintain engine character - something, MBs have managed but BMW still struggles with. I realize that this is probably the future (I'm hoping that turbos will disappear in performance cars and just do the NA + electric thing), but making one's high performance offerings SEEM like just a tuned-up M550i doesn't bode well for the future. At least Mercedes has the good sense to no longer offer a V8 except in full-fat AMG guise
Not another, a tuned X is just as good. There's more to the M than just the engine. The chassis, diff, brakes. As lovely as the 360 is, it wouldn't know which way the M5 went. A whole 3 secs faster to 100mph. The F10 would be faster too. They aren't comparable cars. And the F10 was reliably tuned to late 700s hp, if thats your sort of thing And if you're stuck in 0-> 10 mph - > 0 traffic then anything more than 50hp is pointless innit?
My cousin has an F360 and manages to use all the power, even going from North London to just outside London on B-road like a trip we just took - and the M5 while being quicker isn't a lot quicker (0-60mph times for both are in the 3s, albeit high 3s for the 360).
For me the issue is more that the power figures seem to be arbitrary - surely an M550i could be tuned up to 600hp very easily by flashing the ECU, which means that the M5 engine could probably handle 800hp + (Brabus was making those figures in the early aughts with V8 MBs). One got the sense from earlier M5s that everything, including the engines were turned to their very limit while maintaining reliability.
Further, turbos just aren't desirable for most enthusiasts (and I say that as a Subaru owner) unless one can maintain engine character - something, MBs have managed but BMW still struggles with. I realize that this is probably the future (I'm hoping that turbos will disappear in performance cars and just do the NA + electric thing), but making one's high performance offerings SEEM like just a tuned-up M550i doesn't bode well for the future. At least Mercedes has the good sense to no longer offer a V8 except in full-fat AMG guise
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