RE: DIY supercars
Discussion
Kudos to anyone who looks after their own cars, super or otherwise. I can see why Ferrari etc might be a bit overwhelming to your average mechanic but they're still nuts and bolts at the end of the day. That said, some folk can't even do an oil change at home so it's clearly going to be a small minority of folk spannering their exotic.
Some of the DIY'd cars I see in my workshop are fastidiously maintained, and done to an excellent level. There are things that aren't so straightforward, (so not just "nuts and bolts") like using degree wheels and dial gauges and SD3's! Yes you will loose a chunk of the value at resale time, but quite frankly, some of the specialists and dealers work is hideous, so why not?
Edited by Cerberaherts on Monday 28th August 14:30
An excellent thread. Whilst I don't own a Supercar I do apply the same logic to all my cars however humble. I enjoy it, I learn, am satisfied in the level of care taken and definitely save money too (more than offsetting any perceived loss of re-sale value). Personally I think a car that is self-serviced often and ahead of schedule should be worth more than one maintained to unnecessarily long modern service intervals at a main dealer. The value of a main dealer stamp is important during warranty, if you intend to px it at a main dealer or you don't have the means to do it yourself, other than that DIY.
As the article mentions the key to self servicing is documenting what you have done and when, keep every receipt, take photos and even post about it on a forum or blog to add to the cars history.
Forums and youtube clips are so helpful that you can easily learn to do things yourself, most recently the valve clearances on my Z4M.
As the article mentions the key to self servicing is documenting what you have done and when, keep every receipt, take photos and even post about it on a forum or blog to add to the cars history.
Forums and youtube clips are so helpful that you can easily learn to do things yourself, most recently the valve clearances on my Z4M.
V8RX7 said:
As always - it depends.
A mate of mine is a highly skilled engineer and with his own company with CNC machines etc when his Ferrari needed a rebuild he did it all himself - even making his own pistons - I'd far rather buy his car than anyone else's.
A mate of mine is a highly skilled engineer and with his own company with CNC machines etc when his Ferrari needed a rebuild he did it all himself - even making his own pistons - I'd far rather buy his car than anyone else's.
Me too, but there will be loads that run a mile to the safety of the Main Dealer history, I would buy any of MN Stewarts (is that the name) cars, guy with the modded Ferrari, but at the opposite end of the scale you have skint bodgers like me
not really, I do things properly, but not with that depth.I suppose with supercars, most folk who own one and capable will more than likely have a decent area to work on it, and generally, they arent dailies so you can take it to bits and leave it, also, I would hope they are better quality and lower mileage so perhaps not as crusty as most stuff that gets DIY.
I think a lot of owners wont as they dont need to, arent interested, dotn have time, dont have skills etc, but I think Supercars have a lot of mystique but strip one down it is pretty familiar, the main stumbling block is information and specialist tools/diagnostics, unsuprisingly most manufacturers dont want anyone in there messing about
rxe said:
Never worked on a proper supercar, but have rebuilt several Alfa V6s, changed the cambelts on them (quad cam), and they're just as complex as anything coming out of a Ferrari factory mechanically.
The 90s ones certainly where much the same, same tensioners and everything. AKA An epic ballache 
CrutyRammers said:
rxe said:
Never worked on a proper supercar, but have rebuilt several Alfa V6s, changed the cambelts on them (quad cam), and they're just as complex as anything coming out of a Ferrari factory mechanically.
The 90s ones certainly where much the same, same tensioners and everything. AKA An epic ballache One heck of a belt route to deal with on a transverse engine with a few centimetres clearance against the inner wing...
Water pump was goosed as well, so that had to come off. Again with no room to work.
It is all part of the enjoyment. Some people love it but some people hate it. Regardless if you take it to a business or not a simple thing like a brake pad and disc change. I wonder how many clean out all the carriers and treat the rubbers, degrease the calipers and remove brake dust etc. 99% won't as they have to run a business but it is something I will do on my cars. I recently did the cambelt on my ST205 GT-Four but not only that I degreased everything I took off and gave the engine a good clean while I was at it. That is something generally you wouldn't see in a garage.
There is a difference between an engineer and a mechanic. And its not just the dirt under the nails. An engineer knows books and maths,an experienced mechanic knows how to get out a seized bolt without breaking it.
My brother is an engineer,and he took his car to a mechanic when his gear shift cable popped off,he didnt even know where to look.
I would not be put off by a home serviced vehicle,but id rather buy from a qualified(&experienced) mechanic who owned the vehicle for a long time.
I suppose more to the point, having been in the trade for some time,I know who the dealers have working on your pride and joy for most work,and its not the highly experienced guys who went off and opened their own shops.
A service history in my book is JUST ink in a book,and has no correlation to the actual work done.
Edited by fred bloggs on Monday 28th August 20:07
Its the old adage again - kidding on the public that it can only be the trained competent mechanics at the dealer ship that work on your car, you know nothing and shouldn't venture under the bonnet....
yeah right.
there are lots of basic things that the average joe could do, things that dont need specalist tools to undertake. why do the dealers hate this ? because it costs them money. get your parts cost from a supplier miss out the mark up and get on with it. decent haynes manual and work within your own capabilities and you would be surprised at just how competent the average joe can be.
yeah right.
there are lots of basic things that the average joe could do, things that dont need specalist tools to undertake. why do the dealers hate this ? because it costs them money. get your parts cost from a supplier miss out the mark up and get on with it. decent haynes manual and work within your own capabilities and you would be surprised at just how competent the average joe can be.
Not quite the same esoteric level, but a few years ago I had a very low miles Audi ur Quattro.
Parts were then quite freely available and I did a lot of the mundane maintenance myself.
As a bit of a jape I went to my nearest Audi main stealer and asked them how much a major service would be. Que scratching of heads, and 'do you mean an A5 Quattro?' type questions, ultimately admitting that none of the service team had ever seen one, let alone work on one.
Even my local VAG specialist couldn't remember when he had last seen one, but as a 25yr-served VSG mechanic he knew all about them.
Moving forwards, I took my P38 RR down to the local Lands Rover dealer, and was almost turned away at the door, with a 'we don't touch THOSE, and have no special tools that may be required' etc. The snobbishness was unbelievable.
To be fair, many 'specialists' may have no more knowledge than the vehicles owner of a particular car, but rely on the principles and techniques they may have acquired over many years.
Parts were then quite freely available and I did a lot of the mundane maintenance myself.
As a bit of a jape I went to my nearest Audi main stealer and asked them how much a major service would be. Que scratching of heads, and 'do you mean an A5 Quattro?' type questions, ultimately admitting that none of the service team had ever seen one, let alone work on one.
Even my local VAG specialist couldn't remember when he had last seen one, but as a 25yr-served VSG mechanic he knew all about them.
Moving forwards, I took my P38 RR down to the local Lands Rover dealer, and was almost turned away at the door, with a 'we don't touch THOSE, and have no special tools that may be required' etc. The snobbishness was unbelievable.
To be fair, many 'specialists' may have no more knowledge than the vehicles owner of a particular car, but rely on the principles and techniques they may have acquired over many years.
Pigeon holing diy and dealer services is meaningless .
A dealer is always going to be under time pressure but they have seen the job that needs doing quite often, many times before.
A DIY owner with the right tools and knowledge is worth their weight 9n gold. They will spend a day getting rid of a rattle behind a dashboard. The garge will stick some foam pads in and hope for the best.
A well meaning diy-er without skills or tools is a menace.
A dealer is always going to be under time pressure but they have seen the job that needs doing quite often, many times before.
A DIY owner with the right tools and knowledge is worth their weight 9n gold. They will spend a day getting rid of a rattle behind a dashboard. The garge will stick some foam pads in and hope for the best.
A well meaning diy-er without skills or tools is a menace.
My issue would be (and an issue I had on my VX220) if when you bought the car it had an immaculate main dealer service history. Are you going to be the one who breaks the chain because there's no going back....I broke the chain on my VX, First I had it serviced by Back On Track who were incredible, really nice guys who gave me the confidence to do the future services myself. I even had a 'sports car specialist' rubber stamp made up with my telephone number on it for the service book!
Bladedancer said:
I think the biggest issue with DIY servicing a supercar is when you come to sell it you won't have any service record
Not true. If you service and maintain the car according the manufacturers schedule, then you should feel entitled to fill in the service book. And then the receipts that you keep (again, and you should) will tally with the dates in the service book. Bladedancer said:
... and you'll have to hope prospective punters will believe your skill is a good as a specialist's.
True. But many a DIY'er's thread (and referenced in the article) start with 'I left my car with a well known main dealership in xyz, and it came back with the outside brake pads changed, but not the inners' or somesuch. Do you aspire to be 'as good' as a specialist in this case, or better?FWIW, I bought my 355 many years ago with full history (factory and at the time, well-regarded specialist).
I drove it for 12 months before deciding to tackle an engine out cambelt change in my parking space in my flat in London. In winter.
It was cold and not hugely comfortable but I learned a huge amount.
I also found a load of parts which should have been changed several times over its life but were obviously original (eg, the fuel filter was sold old it was corroding). I also spotted old, perished hoses and various other issues which are impossible to spot without taking the engine out.
I spent about £2k in parts alone and took a long time messing about but I enjoyed the experience immensely and the car ran all the better for it.
Anyone can stamp a book. At least I know that the bits which need doing in mine have been done to my satisfaction.
Has it affected value? Maybe.
Do I mind? Not really.
I've done much of my own work on it and enjoy the tinkering as part of the whole ownership experience. Its part of the reason for choosing to own an older model. the balance is finding time vs doing other things (work / kids).
I drove it for 12 months before deciding to tackle an engine out cambelt change in my parking space in my flat in London. In winter.
It was cold and not hugely comfortable but I learned a huge amount.
I also found a load of parts which should have been changed several times over its life but were obviously original (eg, the fuel filter was sold old it was corroding). I also spotted old, perished hoses and various other issues which are impossible to spot without taking the engine out.
I spent about £2k in parts alone and took a long time messing about but I enjoyed the experience immensely and the car ran all the better for it.
Anyone can stamp a book. At least I know that the bits which need doing in mine have been done to my satisfaction.
Has it affected value? Maybe.
Do I mind? Not really.
I've done much of my own work on it and enjoy the tinkering as part of the whole ownership experience. Its part of the reason for choosing to own an older model. the balance is finding time vs doing other things (work / kids).
Fishy Dave said:
An excellent thread. Whilst I don't own a Supercar I do apply the same logic to all my cars however humble. I enjoy it, I learn, am satisfied in the level of care taken and definitely save money too (more than offsetting any perceived loss of re-sale value). Personally I think a car that is self-serviced often and ahead of schedule should be worth more than one maintained to unnecessarily long modern service intervals at a main dealer. The value of a main dealer stamp is important during warranty, if you intend to px it at a main dealer or you don't have the means to do it yourself, other than that DIY.
As the article mentions the key to self servicing is documenting what you have done and when, keep every receipt, take photos and even post about it on a forum or blog to add to the cars history.
Forums and youtube clips are so helpful that you can easily learn to do things yourself, most recently the valve clearances on my Z4M.
I quite agree. On modern cars 20-25k service intervals are common - crazy!!! As the article mentions the key to self servicing is documenting what you have done and when, keep every receipt, take photos and even post about it on a forum or blog to add to the cars history.
Forums and youtube clips are so helpful that you can easily learn to do things yourself, most recently the valve clearances on my Z4M.
I would only maintain at a dealer during a warranty period like you say.
An oil and filter change on a big Ferrari / Lambo probably costs £800? £1000?
Ultimately you can buy the oil for perhaps £150 (quality stuff) and the filter £30?
The service tech will likely only do the oil and filter and unless there is something obviously wrong (that you would see yourself) will not do any further investigation or health checks!
I always self service, if there is anything I can't do I go to a trusted friend . The only thing I stay away from is electrics and alignment. I'll give most other things a bash even if I get stuck there are plenty of guides online.
I guess a lot of it depends on whether you wish to have the car as a keeper or not. I self-service everything I can on my cars and three motorbikes, to save money, to be sure of a job meticulously done, and for the general enjoyment of spannering. I take photos as I go so if I needed to I could show any prospective buyer what was done. That said, I'd be entirely understanding if it put a buyer off, but I'm not in the market to sell any time soon.
Kudos to getting the engine out of a Ferrari in a London apartment car park, I can imagine that got a few funny looks!
Kudos to getting the engine out of a Ferrari in a London apartment car park, I can imagine that got a few funny looks!
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