RE: DIY supercars

[thegreenhell]

Lordbenny said:

. I even had a 'sports car specialist' rubber stamp made up with my telephone number on it for the service book!

Haha, I like this!

[smilo996]

What a great article. All credit to people who do it themselves I can only imagine it enhances the feeling of ownership considerably.

[Monsieur Du Lard]

I reverse engineered the organic decomposition of the subframes on my Maserati GS last year. (maybe not a "Supercar" but does have a Ferrari built F136 engine)

3 months on a 2 post lift (as I dismantled the car I found more and more work that needed doing - parts removed blasted and then plated and either electroplated or zinced and powdercoated.

I'm not a professional motor engineer, but I have done plenty of car restoration/modification in the past including some pretty serious engine builds.

During this project I found Maserati had not applied any corrosion treatment to the front subframe and it as it had open holes for the treatment to be injected, this was now acting as a water retention system. The subframe was rusting from the inside out to the extent that when grit blasted for powder coat parts of the subframe disintegrated - we were not running high pressure as the factory powder coat on the outside was flaking off - that being the original problem I was trying to resolve. The subframe material was down to <1mm thick in quite large areas, and on cutting one section out, handfuls of rust debris were found inside.

All this was where it was invisible to any MOT or main dealer inspection, and was just 2" from one of the lower wishbone pickups.


I'm glad I was taking a no-compromise approach as I was prepared to dig deep, find the issue and fitted a replacement subframe. Doing this at a main dealer or specialist would have cost probably £10-20k so not viable on a £22.5k (as it was) car.

Doing all the labour myself I reckon I saved £9k and now have the only rust free example in the UK.

So to me there was immense value in doing the work myself:

The cost saving - the £3k in parts was far easier to get past the Mrs!
Ensuring the structural condition of the subframes is safe (I would urge anyone buying a car of this type to steer clear of anything with any significant external corrosion on the subframes - the bodyshells do not rust anywhere where it is not pretty visible),
And the feeling of satisfaction - dismantling what is a pretty complex car.

State of play before:


During:


After:

Edited by Monsieur Du Lard on Wednesday 30th August 11:36

[xjay1337]

J4CKO said:

They take 9.5 litres, what brand would cost £100 ?

Do you have to put something really fancy in, bet it would be fine on some own brand Synthetic would take pleasure in putting soemthing mundane in, it would be fine. I did my car, stakes the same amount, Merc full synth was £42 for ten litres.

No idea - I use Millers Nanodrive stuff which is about 60 quid retail for 5L.

[SydneySE]

thecook101 said:

Great to see the responses here. I'm Ian from the article and although the sandwich wrapper quote wasn't mine the rest pretty much sums it up. It's not about saving money (although that doesn't hurt), it's more about the enjoyment of being able to work on the car and the mechanical empathy gained in doing so. When I drive or track my cars I'm constantly listening to the sounds they make and making mental notes of any rattles, whines, whistles or knocks. As mentioned in many posts, it could be any car although I have to admit that working on a Ferrari does make it quite special. Nothing brings home the reality of being fortunate enough to own a special car quite like the experience of fixing it yourself.

It's also not just repairs of course, being able to make changes and upgrades is a large part of it. I currently have my 430 up on the ramp halfway through a brake upgrade. The steels fade on track and the carbon ceramic discs wear quickly if tracked and are expensive to replace, so I'm fitting larger rotors and calipers to improve heat dissipation. I could have ordered directly from Brembo but instead I found a specialist in Worcester to manufacture them for me - it's just more interesting that way and you meet some great people.

The sandwich wrapper was my experience; think Alisdair got a bit confused cutting/pasting from emails :-)

Like wise its the chance to do upgrades, also brakes for me (manufactured caliper adapters via an engineering firm using my CAD file), updated my e-gear to use the Gallardo/R8 throwout bearing (using a bell housing and bolts from an LP670), carbon fibre accessory brackets for the motor etc.

PS- for your fezza, Hill engineering really know there stuff, as do mad dog racing clutches.

[SydneySE]

J4CKO said:

They take 9.5 litres, what brand would cost £100 ?

Do you have to put something really fancy in, bet it would be fine on some own brand Synthetic would take pleasure in putting soemthing mundane in, it would be fine. I did my car, stakes the same amount, Merc full synth was £42 for ten litres.

well, if I use normal engine oil, after an hour in central london traffic my oil temp hits 125C, and this causes my oil pressure at idle to drop marginally below 1 bar, which causes the oil light to come on. So I run what Lamborghini recommends:

http://www.motoworlduk.co.uk/acatalog/Products_i_R...

yes you read right, £16.55 per Litre, PLUS VAT; and I need 12L for an oil change.

I am currently looking at installing a second thermostat controlled oil cooler on the drivers side lower sill air duct (in addition to the factory one on the passenger side), along with a cooling fan to pull air through it in stationary traffic to negate the need to run this specific oil in favour of a regular 5W-40 or similar like mobil 1.

[markcoopers]

I have a Morgan Aero 8, so whilst I still use an Indi for routine servicing (for the stamps and retaining some value), I will do most other tasks myself. It is not a complicated car to work on, but as access is appalling all jobs take a long time and at dealer labour rates the bills can get big for silly things. As an example I have a failing oil pressure sender, either £10 for the sender or a few pence for a poor earth. However to get to it most of the body work needs to come off and on adding some 6-8 hours labour rates......ouch!

[godzilla84]

Gus265 said:

Do you mean the chap with his F430 16M recreation? That totally takes it to another stratosphere! Fearless and incredible knowledge. It's a huge excellent thread and massive hats off. My thoughts - new stuff (or XJ220s!) to the people who know, old stuff you can tinker if you know what you are doing.

I'm currently up to around page 55 of 65 on that thread I think. It boggles the mind, especially when he described how very basic but important stuff had been missed on its supposedly "full Ferrari service history" on both the F430's he's owned.......

[anonymous-user]

Monsieur Du Lard said:

I reverse engineered the organic decomposition of the subframes on my Maserati GS last year. (maybe not a "Supercar" but does have a Ferrari built F136 engine)

3 months on a 2 post lift (as I dismantled the car I found more and more work that needed doing - parts removed blasted and then plated and either electroplated or zinced and powdercoated.

I'm not a professional motor engineer, but I have done plenty of car restoration/modification in the past including some pretty serious engine builds.

During this project I found Maserati had not applied any corrosion treatment to the front subframe and it as it had open holes for the treatment to be injected, this was now acting as a water retention system. The subframe was rusting from the inside out to the extent that when grit blasted for powder coat parts of the subframe disintegrated - we were not running high pressure as the factory powder coat on the outside was flaking off - that being the original problem I was trying to resolve. The subframe material was down to <1mm thick in quite large areas, and on cutting one section out, handfuls of rust debris were found inside.

All this was where it was invisible to any MOT or main dealer inspection, and was just 2" from one of the lower wishbone pickups.


I'm glad I was taking a no-compromise approach as I was prepared to dig deep, find the issue and fitted a replacement subframe. Doing this at a main dealer or specialist would have cost probably £10-20k so not viable on a £22.5k (as it was) car.

Doing all the labour myself I reckon I saved £9k and now have the only rust free example in the UK.

So to me there was immense value in doing the work myself:

The cost saving - the £3k in parts was far easier to get past the Mrs!
Ensuring the structural condition of the subframes is safe (I would urge anyone buying a car of this type to steer clear of anything with any significant external corrosion on the subframes - the bodyshells do not rust anywhere where it is not pretty visible),
And the feeling of satisfaction - dismantling what is a pretty complex car.

State of play before:


During:


After:

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 30th August 11:36

Hi there
Going to look at a 4200 and the mot check history 2 years ago had an advisory for front sub frame corrosion, but none on the next 2 mot's? As I'm a novice when it comes to anything other than the basics could you point to me exactly where I'm liable to see this corrosion, ringing the underside where you had the problem as being the numpty I am I can't work out where the actual area you show cut out on the underside photo.
Thanks in advance.
Ray

[gp79]

Raygun said:

Hi there
Going to look at a 4200 and the mot check history 2 years ago had an advisory for front sub frame corrosion, but none on the next 2 mot's? As I'm a novice when it comes to anything other than the basics could you point to me exactly where I'm liable to see this corrosion, ringing the underside where you had the problem as being the numpty I am I can't work out where the actual area you show cut out on the underside photo.
Thanks in advance.
Ray

Maybe a bit late, but see below.

This is looking from the underside so the O/S had the severe corrosion



After with new subframe, quite a few hours graft and ££££

Edited by gp79 on Friday 2nd November 12:53