RE: Abarth 124 Spider: PH Fleet
Discussion
Just dont stick it into a telegraph pole like Jalopnik did with theirs.
http://jalopnik.com/three-lessons-i-learned-from-c...
http://jalopnik.com/three-lessons-i-learned-from-c...
BigChiefmuffinAgain said:
and which wasn't that good.
Seeing as the original was a homologation special,it's sole purpose was to win some rallies,which it did and the Italian championship in 1974 and the European in 1975 too.It's no Escort RS1800 but it did okay and was replaced by the Fiat comp dept with some mid engine Lancia thing.
lucido grigio said:
Seeing as the original was a homologation special,it's sole purpose was to win some rallies,which it did and the Italian championship in 1974 and the European in 1975 too.
It's no Escort RS1800 but it did okay and was replaced by the Fiat comp dept with some mid engine Lancia thing.
Yes, I know - my father had one !It's no Escort RS1800 but it did okay and was replaced by the Fiat comp dept with some mid engine Lancia thing.
Given the sourcing of this product, how much profit can FIAT possibly earn per unit?
For the same money, you could have the 370z reviewed last week by PH. Of course we all love the soulful nature of Italian motoring, but... Between this Spider and the Z, I'd choose the latter in a heartbeat.
Yes, you can buy faster cars that are more practical for the money, It will constantly catch fire as it's Italian (despite being Japanese), and it always rains so a soft top is pointless, but how much fun is a white car with a black bonnet and an exhaust so loud it's impossible to park at the Tesco without a jealous passer by calling you a cock as they get in their diesel rep-mobile.
Very long post ahead but I've spent a lot of time recently test driving various Fiata configs and wanted to share my thoughts with you, hopefully it might help you with some buying decisions! I'm still a bit confused about which way to go as each variant has something unique to offer. Leaning towards a 2.0 RF on grounds of all-weather practicality but the Abarth has character in spades and feels more like the Sunday morning hoon option, albeit at a price.
Something for everyone though and it's nice to have so many options out there for prospective buyers.
Mazda:
1.5 Ragtop Sport Nav - Best fun-per-pound you can buy? I disagree that the 1.5 is "revvier" than the 2.0, the reviews will make you think it reaches for the redline like a GT3RS. It just doesn't make a nice enough sound in the last 1000rpm to be rewarding. Having said that, it's nicer than the turbo 3-pot in the Fiesta ST but maybe not quite as rorty as the 595 Comp. The 1.5 just feels that little (tiny) bit gutless - a bit like having an angry bee under the hood rather than a proper engine. Still great value at £19k though. Previous car was circa 225bhp/ton with 285lbft so this may have clouded my view on the 1.5 somewhat - I understand the benefit of its application though and the VFM it represents. Probably not for me though.
2.0 Ragtop Sport Nav - Better engine IMO. The extra pull in the low gears helps in traffic and it just sounds sportier/meatier both in terms of induction and exhaust noise and the rev character isn't that different to the 1.5 andn I didn't miss the extra 800rpm. You don't feel the extra 25kg near the front axle either and handling is noticeable less rolly poly. The soft top is a bit quieter than the RF roof down, but top-up it's just too noisy at motorway speeds and would get on my nerves. Then you've got the hassle of stains, wear and security to worry about and I don't have a garage...
2.0 RF Sport Nav - Top up, it's far nicer at motorway speeds. I do my Sunday hoons around the South Downs but they're still an hour away and this needs to be an all-year second car. People moan about the wind buffeting but it only gets unruly over 65mph roof down. Note that the buffeting seems to push wind behind your head and down your neck which can actually be refreshing! You don't get that with the soft top and the noise difference is relatively marginal between the two with the hood down & windows up. 13 seconds is no hardship to deploy the RF and shorter than any traffic signal. There is an inch less headroom so it might be even more of a squeeze for the lanky.
Both Rag and RF really struggled with damping on the concrete sections of the M25 (between A22 & M4), making a truly horrid resonance, otherwise the ride quality is superb in both. The RF feels noticeable more tied-down and the more sorted chassis - that said I have come from a car with very little body roll and good grip so maybe it's the feeling I've been conditioned to. The ragtop feels a bit sloppier - particularly the 1.5 which pitches & rolls quite a bit more than the 2.0 for some reason. Fun at roundabouts though!
Test drove today for about an hour, mix of extra urban, roundabouts and motorway but no B-roads sadly. Unlike the MX5 test drives it was accompanied, adding about 85kg which may have dulled performance a tad.
Looks - An acquired taste and I like both in their own way. The Spyder looks a tad more masculine, has lovely headlights and without the gaudy black vinyl looks nice in blue, red and grey. They are bringing out a "Scorpione" version soon in pure black which looks the business. It lacks the MX5's Kei car delicacy and the cool RF butresses but the bonnet length isn't a distraction (in context against normal cars it's still tiny). The alloys are a bit meh - prefer the Mazda's. Nice to see some proper 4-pot Brembos behind the though rather than the horrid grey floating calipers of the MX5. The interior is much, much better than the MX5. Gorgeous ribbed seats, alcantara everywhere, nicer gearknob, wheel leather, red rev counter and alloy pedals. Win for Fiat.
Engine - Now this is a tough one. The Abarth has little 2k then pulls nicely through 2nd & 3rd, but does run out of verve slightly in the last 500-750rpm. The drama and pull is in the midrange as you'd expect for little tubby. In terms of noise, the Skyactive's induction pipe helps bring lovely noise into the cabin while the Abarth majors on a flipping awesome exhaust rasp, crackle and bangs. Contrived? Maybe, but it sounds better than the 2.0 Skyactive with the top down, meatier with the top up and generates a lot more attention and looks than the MX5s ever did. People familiar with the 595 Comp / Record Monza setup will know it - I think it sounds great. So depending on your induction/exhaust preference you now have a choice. The 2.0 Sky is the sweeter lump and doesn't seem to give up much torque wise off paper. Note that the SkyActive is likely to be more economical on fuel - flicking the Abarth's sport switch keeps the turbo spooled at a higher RPM but kills polar bears in the process. Overall the Mazda "feels" faster but it might be bum-dyno given the sportier rather than GT like delivery over the Abarth.
Gearbox - Pretty similar but it seems to take a bit longer to warm up being a tad notchier to begin with but settles into a lovely smooth action. It has a slightly meatier shift action compared to the Mazda (which feels like you're holding a pencil sometimes), but still slots away lovely shifts every time. The gearknob feels nicer in the hand (oo-err) but the clutch action and bite point will take a little more familiarisation and practise.
Handling - Feels slightly stiffer than the 2.0 RF. The damping is slightly less forgiving and the springs are harder so body roll is very controlled, but not to the point of harshness. I've come from a very stiff/tied-down car so it feels ok to me. I think the perfect balance is somewhere between the RF and Spyder - they RF feels a tad more chuckable but it comes with a slightly less composure. The Abarth gives me more high speed confidence though. Steering feel is fine - very similar to the RF. The wheel itself is slightly thicker and has nicer leather so it feels better in the hands. Didn't really give the brembos a good test but there's still limited brake pedal travel like the standard floating calipers. Brake stability is superb with no fishtailing as per the Mazda.
NVH - Now there might be something in the aerodynamic design of the bonnet and mirrors but there's less buffeting hood down and up in the Abarth which is something I wasn't expecting. Maybe there's more padding in the roof liner too? It felt quieter at 80mph than the MX5 which is bizarre and only really became obtrusive approaching 90mph. Ive noticed that it does somewhat depend on the wind direction. Obviously with the top up there's less buttress turbulence than the RF. What it doesn't have is the lovely induction noise of the 2.0's soundpipe and the Multiair could not be confused for a V6 Busso. The Abarth cabin is filled with the sound of a rorty exhaust instead and it burbles away nicely in the background.
VFM/Cost - Rumour is that Fiat priced themselves out so the new Scorpione edition is £3k cheaper (£27.1k) losing nothing in the process. This massively sucks for early adopters but is good news for us. The only catch is that you can chose black or white paint, and can't spec the ribbed red leather seats any more, but get Alcantara instead (which is fine by me). You also get £1500 dealer contribution (plus £300-400 of wiggle room) taking you down to £25.2k. This is still a £3.5k premium to the 2.0 soft top Mazda so I'm not saying it's good value on a relative basis but you may think the extra trimmings are worth it. Financing plans are a deep subject and not very interesting to discuss s I'l leave that for another thread. Otherwise it's probably going to be a bit pricier than the mazda to run in terms of fuel economy, servicing (9k miles vs 12k mile intervals) and in particular Abarth parts prices which have a silly sticker premium, if you plan to keep long term.
Cheers,
DT
Something for everyone though and it's nice to have so many options out there for prospective buyers.
Mazda:
1.5 Ragtop Sport Nav - Best fun-per-pound you can buy? I disagree that the 1.5 is "revvier" than the 2.0, the reviews will make you think it reaches for the redline like a GT3RS. It just doesn't make a nice enough sound in the last 1000rpm to be rewarding. Having said that, it's nicer than the turbo 3-pot in the Fiesta ST but maybe not quite as rorty as the 595 Comp. The 1.5 just feels that little (tiny) bit gutless - a bit like having an angry bee under the hood rather than a proper engine. Still great value at £19k though. Previous car was circa 225bhp/ton with 285lbft so this may have clouded my view on the 1.5 somewhat - I understand the benefit of its application though and the VFM it represents. Probably not for me though.
2.0 Ragtop Sport Nav - Better engine IMO. The extra pull in the low gears helps in traffic and it just sounds sportier/meatier both in terms of induction and exhaust noise and the rev character isn't that different to the 1.5 andn I didn't miss the extra 800rpm. You don't feel the extra 25kg near the front axle either and handling is noticeable less rolly poly. The soft top is a bit quieter than the RF roof down, but top-up it's just too noisy at motorway speeds and would get on my nerves. Then you've got the hassle of stains, wear and security to worry about and I don't have a garage...
2.0 RF Sport Nav - Top up, it's far nicer at motorway speeds. I do my Sunday hoons around the South Downs but they're still an hour away and this needs to be an all-year second car. People moan about the wind buffeting but it only gets unruly over 65mph roof down. Note that the buffeting seems to push wind behind your head and down your neck which can actually be refreshing! You don't get that with the soft top and the noise difference is relatively marginal between the two with the hood down & windows up. 13 seconds is no hardship to deploy the RF and shorter than any traffic signal. There is an inch less headroom so it might be even more of a squeeze for the lanky.
Both Rag and RF really struggled with damping on the concrete sections of the M25 (between A22 & M4), making a truly horrid resonance, otherwise the ride quality is superb in both. The RF feels noticeable more tied-down and the more sorted chassis - that said I have come from a car with very little body roll and good grip so maybe it's the feeling I've been conditioned to. The ragtop feels a bit sloppier - particularly the 1.5 which pitches & rolls quite a bit more than the 2.0 for some reason. Fun at roundabouts though!
- **********************************************************************************************************************************************************88
Test drove today for about an hour, mix of extra urban, roundabouts and motorway but no B-roads sadly. Unlike the MX5 test drives it was accompanied, adding about 85kg which may have dulled performance a tad.
Looks - An acquired taste and I like both in their own way. The Spyder looks a tad more masculine, has lovely headlights and without the gaudy black vinyl looks nice in blue, red and grey. They are bringing out a "Scorpione" version soon in pure black which looks the business. It lacks the MX5's Kei car delicacy and the cool RF butresses but the bonnet length isn't a distraction (in context against normal cars it's still tiny). The alloys are a bit meh - prefer the Mazda's. Nice to see some proper 4-pot Brembos behind the though rather than the horrid grey floating calipers of the MX5. The interior is much, much better than the MX5. Gorgeous ribbed seats, alcantara everywhere, nicer gearknob, wheel leather, red rev counter and alloy pedals. Win for Fiat.
Engine - Now this is a tough one. The Abarth has little 2k then pulls nicely through 2nd & 3rd, but does run out of verve slightly in the last 500-750rpm. The drama and pull is in the midrange as you'd expect for little tubby. In terms of noise, the Skyactive's induction pipe helps bring lovely noise into the cabin while the Abarth majors on a flipping awesome exhaust rasp, crackle and bangs. Contrived? Maybe, but it sounds better than the 2.0 Skyactive with the top down, meatier with the top up and generates a lot more attention and looks than the MX5s ever did. People familiar with the 595 Comp / Record Monza setup will know it - I think it sounds great. So depending on your induction/exhaust preference you now have a choice. The 2.0 Sky is the sweeter lump and doesn't seem to give up much torque wise off paper. Note that the SkyActive is likely to be more economical on fuel - flicking the Abarth's sport switch keeps the turbo spooled at a higher RPM but kills polar bears in the process. Overall the Mazda "feels" faster but it might be bum-dyno given the sportier rather than GT like delivery over the Abarth.
Gearbox - Pretty similar but it seems to take a bit longer to warm up being a tad notchier to begin with but settles into a lovely smooth action. It has a slightly meatier shift action compared to the Mazda (which feels like you're holding a pencil sometimes), but still slots away lovely shifts every time. The gearknob feels nicer in the hand (oo-err) but the clutch action and bite point will take a little more familiarisation and practise.
Handling - Feels slightly stiffer than the 2.0 RF. The damping is slightly less forgiving and the springs are harder so body roll is very controlled, but not to the point of harshness. I've come from a very stiff/tied-down car so it feels ok to me. I think the perfect balance is somewhere between the RF and Spyder - they RF feels a tad more chuckable but it comes with a slightly less composure. The Abarth gives me more high speed confidence though. Steering feel is fine - very similar to the RF. The wheel itself is slightly thicker and has nicer leather so it feels better in the hands. Didn't really give the brembos a good test but there's still limited brake pedal travel like the standard floating calipers. Brake stability is superb with no fishtailing as per the Mazda.
NVH - Now there might be something in the aerodynamic design of the bonnet and mirrors but there's less buffeting hood down and up in the Abarth which is something I wasn't expecting. Maybe there's more padding in the roof liner too? It felt quieter at 80mph than the MX5 which is bizarre and only really became obtrusive approaching 90mph. Ive noticed that it does somewhat depend on the wind direction. Obviously with the top up there's less buttress turbulence than the RF. What it doesn't have is the lovely induction noise of the 2.0's soundpipe and the Multiair could not be confused for a V6 Busso. The Abarth cabin is filled with the sound of a rorty exhaust instead and it burbles away nicely in the background.
VFM/Cost - Rumour is that Fiat priced themselves out so the new Scorpione edition is £3k cheaper (£27.1k) losing nothing in the process. This massively sucks for early adopters but is good news for us. The only catch is that you can chose black or white paint, and can't spec the ribbed red leather seats any more, but get Alcantara instead (which is fine by me). You also get £1500 dealer contribution (plus £300-400 of wiggle room) taking you down to £25.2k. This is still a £3.5k premium to the 2.0 soft top Mazda so I'm not saying it's good value on a relative basis but you may think the extra trimmings are worth it. Financing plans are a deep subject and not very interesting to discuss s I'l leave that for another thread. Otherwise it's probably going to be a bit pricier than the mazda to run in terms of fuel economy, servicing (9k miles vs 12k mile intervals) and in particular Abarth parts prices which have a silly sticker premium, if you plan to keep long term.
Cheers,
DT
A couple of people mentioning height and fitting in the 124, I’m 6’3” and fit in fine.
Someone also mentioned bringing the 124 to the Goodwood PH trackday in December (if it happens like last year) would be good to get out on track against my 595 comp to see the difference (also LSD, brembos and Koni FSD shocks)
I think they look great but the cost is probably a bit too high.
An Alfa owner mentioned about having the same engine as the Abarth. I just got 39.5mpg after an 1800mile spirited drive through Europe including the Stelvio Pass in the 595.
Someone also mentioned bringing the 124 to the Goodwood PH trackday in December (if it happens like last year) would be good to get out on track against my 595 comp to see the difference (also LSD, brembos and Koni FSD shocks)
I think they look great but the cost is probably a bit too high.
An Alfa owner mentioned about having the same engine as the Abarth. I just got 39.5mpg after an 1800mile spirited drive through Europe including the Stelvio Pass in the 595.
Dynamic Turtle said:
Gearbox - Pretty similar but it seems to take a bit longer to warm up being a tad notchier to begin with but settles into a lovely smooth action. It has a slightly meatier shift action compared to the Mazda (which feels like you're holding a pencil sometimes), but still slots away lovely shifts every time. The gearknob feels nicer in the hand (oo-err) but the clutch action and bite point will take a little more familiarisation and practise.
Cheers,
DT
That will be because the box is a MK3 MX5's 6 spd box which was always a notchy bugger, change the fluid and some of the notchiness more so in earlier gears and when cold will be gone.Cheers,
DT
Better than the chocolate one of the MK4 mind, which seems to have had a horrific time in racing applications and some road ones as well. Mazda UK won't do anything about the failures, Mazda NA though supply an uprated one for racing applications something they never did for the MK3!
Ninja59 said:
Dynamic Turtle said:
Gearbox - Pretty similar but it seems to take a bit longer to warm up being a tad notchier to begin with but settles into a lovely smooth action. It has a slightly meatier shift action compared to the Mazda (which feels like you're holding a pencil sometimes), but still slots away lovely shifts every time. The gearknob feels nicer in the hand (oo-err) but the clutch action and bite point will take a little more familiarisation and practise.
Cheers,
DT
That will be because the box is a MK3 MX5's 6 spd box which was always a notchy bugger, change the fluid and some of the notchiness more so in earlier gears and when cold will be gone.Cheers,
DT
Better than the chocolate one of the MK4 mind, which seems to have had a horrific time in racing applications and some road ones as well. Mazda UK won't do anything about the failures, Mazda NA though supply an uprated one for racing applications something they never did for the MK3!
Really struggling with the massive premium for the Abarth though. Some used "bargains" about for £24k but you're still looking at a £7k premium over a 2.0 MX5 at £17k, albeit without the funky exhaust and calipers (about £1200 fitted at BBR).
Oh and I made an error re the new Abarth Scorpione edition at £27k rrp. It can't be specced with the Bose audio system at all, and you still have to pay £1250 for the visibility pack and £450 for satnav. So near £29k compared to a fully loaded 2.0 MX5 Sportnav at £24.4k. You get £1500 dealer contribution on the Abarth or 10% off the MX5 from various brokers.
Still nice to have the Abarth option and it's definitely more characterful than the MX5. It actually gets admiring glances and attention where the Mazda is invisible. You could probably finance another 1.5 soft top for two years with the price difference though!
Still nice to have the Abarth option and it's definitely more characterful than the MX5. It actually gets admiring glances and attention where the Mazda is invisible. You could probably finance another 1.5 soft top for two years with the price difference though!
This is a well specified, well built, lightweight RWD sports car with a good brand image.
Yes they are too expensive new but the market is finding it's feet in the mid £20k's as stated above so not so much of a problem. If you don't like the black bonnet order one without it.
Hopefully PH will be able to provide some quality and objective views on it in future rather than the strange inconsistent nit picking of previous efforts.
Yes they are too expensive new but the market is finding it's feet in the mid £20k's as stated above so not so much of a problem. If you don't like the black bonnet order one without it.
Hopefully PH will be able to provide some quality and objective views on it in future rather than the strange inconsistent nit picking of previous efforts.
Lovely little runabout. Do not expect more! No issue with driver's position at 6'3"/200lbs. However, there is a bump on the passanger side floor, ladies will complain that there is not enough space for their handbags. Storage: box between the seats, swallows enough. And another small box behind the driver's seat. Trunk is ok for a week's vacation for two. No major criticism, really. Drives lovely and fluid, surprisingly harmonic setup. Could use a little more power, so keep up the momentum. With the autobox it has a slightly on-off character. You can either drive it slow, or like a total hooligan (including the sound). Not much in between. That sound!!! LOL, yes it turns heads. But - at least in Continental Europe - reactions are very positive. And of course you should get the black bonnet and trunk! It's an Abarth!! It's supposed to be over the top! :-)
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