RE: It's a racing car for the road! PH Blog
Discussion
In the context of this thread I'm a little torn about many of the UK "kit cars" (Caterham-7 excepted), as whilst they've a very clear track-bias to them, they weren't designed for racing - racing has been set-up around them as a marketing exercise (which I guess is the opposite to building for homolgation purposes).
So whilst I'll never criticise the engagement, fun and pace of stuff like Ultimas and Radicals, do they fit the definition of the thread?
So whilst I'll never criticise the engagement, fun and pace of stuff like Ultimas and Radicals, do they fit the definition of the thread?
AMZEY1 said:
Nissan R390
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/6MMThELr.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/OMFdFpxm" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/OMFdFpxm.jpg)
Oof : definitely.And by extension we must also include the related Jaguar XJR-15 (apparently shares the same tub with the R390 and both supposedly thus derived from the XJR-9).
The XJR-15 was of course designed to be both a racing car (for a limited one make series) and a road car so is pretty much a benchmark definition.
Ares said:
I ran an Exige as a daily driver for 2 years, 40,000 miles. Felt like a racecar on the commute.
When I had my S220 from '07 to '09 I used it as a daily too. When I ordered it I took up the option of the snap-off steering wheel and was also very close to ticking the option box for the full roll cage & harness thinking "yeah that will look great and be excellent come track days, etc". Thankfully the sales guy at Bell & Colvill talked me out of it and he was right to as I reckon I'd have got rather cheesed off with it pretty quickly, especially when trying to extricate myself through it shortly before a meeting in a suit 
Edited by AlexRS2782 on Tuesday 5th September 18:48
British Beef said:
Mclaren F1 all day long for me.
Central driving position, V12 NA mid- engine, compact and lightweight.
No race car recipe has ever started with better raw ingredients
Apart from the ones which had only two seats. But of course,it was not designed as a racing car. Made a pretty damned fine one though I will agree. Central driving position, V12 NA mid- engine, compact and lightweight.
No race car recipe has ever started with better raw ingredients
Pukka racers I have seen.on the road are a GT40 (not a MK III either ) and a Chevron B8.
Ones I wish I had seen include the Matra MS 650 and Ferrari 512 which contested the Tour de France and the achingly lovely Alfa 33 Stradale (no relation to the so-so Alfasud successor )
Before I sold it, I had my (much modified) 964 Cup car road-registered. And I did actually drive it on the road. It was unspeakably horrible as a road car. Quite well developed as a race car (I won half-a-dozen races in it), so not intrinsically bad, but on the road?
So noisy I had to wear ear plugs
So stiff I feared for my teeth over speed humps
So low I feared for the splitter over the same speed humps
...and it had nothing much below 2k rpm (small-valve GT3-based 3.8 on Motec with ITBs) and a paddle clutch, so I looked and sounded like a t
t at every junction and light. And it tramlined. And it didn't really grip in the wet on cold 888s. And the massive (GT2 LM) discs and no ABS didn't really work when cold, and worked too well when warm. And it wasn't waterproof (plastic doors and windows, no door seals). And it was LH drive, with a single race seat and 6-point harness, so paying car parks were fun.
And it was bright orange with white racing stripes. Not really a sleeper, therefore.
Race cars for the road are a stupid idea. (Although the new owner put it back into original Cup spec, which is basically a 964RS without the interior trim, and that's probably quite nice, really).
Do I miss it?
Of course I do.
So noisy I had to wear ear plugs
So stiff I feared for my teeth over speed humps
So low I feared for the splitter over the same speed humps
...and it had nothing much below 2k rpm (small-valve GT3-based 3.8 on Motec with ITBs) and a paddle clutch, so I looked and sounded like a t
t at every junction and light. And it tramlined. And it didn't really grip in the wet on cold 888s. And the massive (GT2 LM) discs and no ABS didn't really work when cold, and worked too well when warm. And it wasn't waterproof (plastic doors and windows, no door seals). And it was LH drive, with a single race seat and 6-point harness, so paying car parks were fun. And it was bright orange with white racing stripes. Not really a sleeper, therefore.
Race cars for the road are a stupid idea. (Although the new owner put it back into original Cup spec, which is basically a 964RS without the interior trim, and that's probably quite nice, really).
Do I miss it?
Of course I do.
DiscoColin said:
The E30 M3 was.
The E36 wasn't though - while there have of course been people kicking them around in VLN and suchlike, the most noteworthy E36 racing programmes were basically confined to the 4 cylinder SuperTourer and not the M3 (IIRC there was a falling out with the DTM about how far back they could move the engine and they took away their toys and abandoned the series rather than campaign the E36 M3). Americans might contest this as PTG ran them in IMSA with some degree of success but that wasn't a factory programme nor did generate any major international attention.
This continued with the E46 3 series, however there was also a full fat E46 M3 competition car : the M3 GTR. However - that had a 500hp 4 litre V8 and the only road M3 of that vintage so equipped was limited to a handful of homologation cars at something crazy like a quarter of a million Euros. The normal E46 M3 and CSL : related only in shell and trim.
With the E92 there was also a major racing programme - the M3 GT2 (which campaigned Le Mans and the N24). However, the engine in that was actually an evolution of the racing motor from the E46 GTR and is completely different to the S65 in the road cars. They did also make a few S65 based GT4 spec E92s which showed up in the VLN and presumably elsewhere, but those to my mind are little more than a footnote in the story.
Basically road M3s (aside from that handful of E46 GTRs) stopped being homologation competition cars after the E30. A few people used them as a base for building a racing car, but people have done that with 1 series diesels too so it isn't completely relevant if given context.
Awesome cars (of which I am an unashamed fan), but the motorsport link is really all marketing rather than ancestry after the E30.
Ooh, thank you for that very illuminating and educational reply! You've certainly taught me a bit more about the history of the M3! Brilliant post! Cheers!The E36 wasn't though - while there have of course been people kicking them around in VLN and suchlike, the most noteworthy E36 racing programmes were basically confined to the 4 cylinder SuperTourer and not the M3 (IIRC there was a falling out with the DTM about how far back they could move the engine and they took away their toys and abandoned the series rather than campaign the E36 M3). Americans might contest this as PTG ran them in IMSA with some degree of success but that wasn't a factory programme nor did generate any major international attention.
This continued with the E46 3 series, however there was also a full fat E46 M3 competition car : the M3 GTR. However - that had a 500hp 4 litre V8 and the only road M3 of that vintage so equipped was limited to a handful of homologation cars at something crazy like a quarter of a million Euros. The normal E46 M3 and CSL : related only in shell and trim.
With the E92 there was also a major racing programme - the M3 GT2 (which campaigned Le Mans and the N24). However, the engine in that was actually an evolution of the racing motor from the E46 GTR and is completely different to the S65 in the road cars. They did also make a few S65 based GT4 spec E92s which showed up in the VLN and presumably elsewhere, but those to my mind are little more than a footnote in the story.
Basically road M3s (aside from that handful of E46 GTRs) stopped being homologation competition cars after the E30. A few people used them as a base for building a racing car, but people have done that with 1 series diesels too so it isn't completely relevant if given context.
Awesome cars (of which I am an unashamed fan), but the motorsport link is really all marketing rather than ancestry after the E30.
Where's the "not sure if serious" smiley / meme when you need it 
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff