RE: It's a racing car for the road! PH Blog
Discussion
mp3manager said:
The FK2 was described in the blurb as a racing car for the road, which it certainly wasn't.
The DC5 race base is a racing car for the road but it actually wasn't, as it had no VIN number and was stamped with 'For Competition Use Only'.
Race cars for the road don't exist.
Cough Cough......The DC5 race base is a racing car for the road but it actually wasn't, as it had no VIN number and was stamped with 'For Competition Use Only'.
Race cars for the road don't exist.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/a12159736/...
]Nurburgring attempt 1
fatboy18 said:
Cough Cough.....He grazed the left side guardrail, then skidded across the track into the railing on the right. The airbags deployed, but luckily, Arnold walked away without injury.Race cars don't have airbags.
I compete in historic rallying. The car is road registered, but we usually trailer it to events.
Why?
It's very loud inside; race seats and harnesses are restrictive and uncomfortable when you're not strapped down hard; the cage makes entry and exit difficult; the heater is demist only; and much more besides.
And this is a road car converted for rallying - a dedicated circuit racer would be worse still.
Why?
It's very loud inside; race seats and harnesses are restrictive and uncomfortable when you're not strapped down hard; the cage makes entry and exit difficult; the heater is demist only; and much more besides.
And this is a road car converted for rallying - a dedicated circuit racer would be worse still.
DiscoColin said:
Well, firstly this is always the point where we ought to highlight that the Z4 GT3 was strictly a racing car and the Z4 was never actually offered as a road car with a V8 at all [so in the racing car for the road thread we are at risk of falling out of context].
Secondly, no : the Z4 GT3 and GTE used the P65B44 which has a flat plane crank, dry sump lubrication and sounds like you might imagine the coming of the apocalypse. That engine is an enlarged P65B40 (from the E92 GT2) which is in turn an evolution of the P60B40 from the E46 GTR (the street version of which was the only road going BMW that I could name with a 8 cylinder racing derived engine). I have seen it claimed that the P65B44 is in some way based on the road car engine so it is possible that they may have a similar architecture, but given that it is dry sump and has a different crank and almost certainly headers too (and also likely rods and pistons, but we need a true M engine anorak to qualify that) then it is a huge stretch to call it in any way the same engine as the road car.
Nobody who has ever heard a Z4 GT3 in person would ever confuse it with the M road cars. It doesn't really do that lovely smooth linear howl, but rather it makes an AMG Merc sound like a Trabant. It is frankly awesome, but in a completely different way to the road car.
Conversely, if you look at the equivalent from Porsche (the 996 & 997 RSs), if you delete the variocam you are left with what is essentially a Cup car engine (the 997 version for the SP9/GT3/GTE classes has the crank only found in the road going 4 litre 997 RS).
Top bearding! And much appreciated, thanks Secondly, no : the Z4 GT3 and GTE used the P65B44 which has a flat plane crank, dry sump lubrication and sounds like you might imagine the coming of the apocalypse. That engine is an enlarged P65B40 (from the E92 GT2) which is in turn an evolution of the P60B40 from the E46 GTR (the street version of which was the only road going BMW that I could name with a 8 cylinder racing derived engine). I have seen it claimed that the P65B44 is in some way based on the road car engine so it is possible that they may have a similar architecture, but given that it is dry sump and has a different crank and almost certainly headers too (and also likely rods and pistons, but we need a true M engine anorak to qualify that) then it is a huge stretch to call it in any way the same engine as the road car.
Nobody who has ever heard a Z4 GT3 in person would ever confuse it with the M road cars. It doesn't really do that lovely smooth linear howl, but rather it makes an AMG Merc sound like a Trabant. It is frankly awesome, but in a completely different way to the road car.
Conversely, if you look at the equivalent from Porsche (the 996 & 997 RSs), if you delete the variocam you are left with what is essentially a Cup car engine (the 997 version for the SP9/GT3/GTE classes has the crank only found in the road going 4 litre 997 RS).
Venturi gt400, although some are converted race cars- fuses sticking out of the dashboard !
Maserati ghibli cup, a very loose spin off from the Open cup race car.
Detomaso Guara. Based on the Maserati barchetta race car chassis, pushrod suspension, inboard shocks. It does have air con and leather seats but underneath it is a race chassis.
Maserati ghibli cup, a very loose spin off from the Open cup race car.
Detomaso Guara. Based on the Maserati barchetta race car chassis, pushrod suspension, inboard shocks. It does have air con and leather seats but underneath it is a race chassis.
Nice commentary piece, and I wholly agree with you about there being genuine road racers, and race car styled status symbols wannabes... But I also think there is another category that slots through the middle of those, the genuinely usable roadcar with motorsport potential. any 911 / vantage / elise are equally at home on road or track, but are neither fish nor fowl in the two categories. Will mull this over this afternoon when I'm mounting a sparco bucket seat in my mayes lexus drift toy.
TAlking of Front Engined RWD drifty things, there is only one exception to your 4 cylinder cut off, the E30. However I am left wondering about one potential other... Surely the e46 M3 CSL ought to get an honorary promotion into the genuine road racer category?
TAlking of Front Engined RWD drifty things, there is only one exception to your 4 cylinder cut off, the E30. However I am left wondering about one potential other... Surely the e46 M3 CSL ought to get an honorary promotion into the genuine road racer category?
Jayridium said:
Nice commentary piece, and I wholly agree with you about there being genuine road racers, and race car styled status symbols wannabes... But I also think there is another category that slots through the middle of those, the genuinely usable roadcar with motorsport potential. any 911 / vantage / elise are equally at home on road or track, but are neither fish nor fowl in the two categories. Will mull this over this afternoon when I'm mounting a sparco bucket seat in my mayes lexus drift toy.
TAlking of Front Engined RWD drifty things, there is only one exception to your 4 cylinder cut off, the E30. However I am left wondering about one potential other... Surely the e46 M3 CSL ought to get an honorary promotion into the genuine road racer category?
The CSL is a great, relatively raw and noisy BMW, but it's no road racer. I once did Rotterdam - Munich in one stint with mine, 3-up, luggage in the boot, tunes on the stereo and air-con keeping us cool. My mate even had a snooze in the back! It's a no from meTAlking of Front Engined RWD drifty things, there is only one exception to your 4 cylinder cut off, the E30. However I am left wondering about one potential other... Surely the e46 M3 CSL ought to get an honorary promotion into the genuine road racer category?
Leins said:
The CSL is a great, relatively raw and noisy BMW, but it's no road racer. I once did Rotterdam - Munich in one stint with mine, 3-up, luggage in the boot, tunes on the stereo and air-con keeping us cool. My mate even had a snooze in the back! It's a no from me
I thought the CSL famously had no stereo or aircon??Ares said:
I thought the CSL famously had no stereo or aircon??
It famously had a cardboard floor too. Still managed 6 cases of wine in it though 
There were a number of options for CSLs, some no-cost. You could even get a MiniDisc player and parking sensors. Mine originally came on standard tyres and 19" M3 wheels, but also had the "155" mph limiter removed from factory
That saying, it was a bit raw, and the seats had you sitting bolt-upright and fairly well held in place. But they're really more a fast-road car, which can also handle a trackday. I even had the standard brakes on mine, although uprated hoses and fluid helps
zebra said:
No roll cage, no fire extuinguisher, no electrical cut off, no harness, no adjustable suspension, no removeable steering wheel, no baffled sump, etc......then you don't have a race car for the road.
I have all that in my Ford Lightning drag truck.Plus, a parachute
Is that acceptable?
Full roll cage with door bars ... tick
Fixed fia approved bucket seat with harness ... tick
Plumbed in fire extinguisher and electrical cutoff switches ... tick
Adjustable brake bias valve by drivers seat ... tick
Removeable steering wheel ... tick
Baffled sump ... tick
Now, what else should be on that list
This is the factory supported race car, and it's road legal. Was raced in the GT Cup championship, 750 motor club and strangely AMOC championship events. Supposedly lots of adjustments made to it at the factory before being sent to the original race team. The only changes now are carpets, along with softer springs. Still has its rain light fitted. Racing springs were way to firm on the road. Still have them though if I ever feel the need to be silly. It is though very silly on the road, and I love it!!!
So is this a race car or a road car then
Edited by The Big G on Friday 8th September 21:50
ceebmoj said:
Cold said:
Most of these are a little soft. If you're going to do it, then do it properly.
1968 Lotus Ford Type 51R
Bonhams link
Or something a little more up to date, a 2012 Ecoboost Formula Ford.
Link to Pistonheads news story
Like. Good selection would love to try either on the road1968 Lotus Ford Type 51R
Bonhams link
Or something a little more up to date, a 2012 Ecoboost Formula Ford.
Link to Pistonheads news story
starting refurbishment
on the road
http://sendvid.com/o07wme5g
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