RE: Lotus Evora GT430 Sport
Discussion
blueg33 said:
This Evora is miles faster than the GT4 for a start.
Does anybody actually care about the top speed of these cars - apart from a few pub bores?Top speed doesn't sell cars. The total package needs to be right.
This is the best looking Evora by a country mile. It's just a shame they've taken 10 years and doubled the price to get there.
rockin said:
Does anybody actually care about the top speed of these cars - apart from a few pub bores?
Top speed doesn't sell cars. The total package needs to be right.
This is the best looking Evora by a country mile. It's just a shame they've taken 10 years and doubled the price to get there.
I agree. That's why my post began with "for a start". Top speed doesn't sell cars. The total package needs to be right.
This is the best looking Evora by a country mile. It's just a shame they've taken 10 years and doubled the price to get there.
98elise said:
Agreed. The Evora chassis uses the VVA platform which is entirely different from the Elise chassis.
The current Elise uses a bespoke chassis which is an evolution of original Elise chassis. The VVA chassis is modular and can be used on a range of vehicles.
http://www.lotuscars.com/engineering/vehicle-platf...
I'll eat my words. I'm still unconvinced about the pricing however.The current Elise uses a bespoke chassis which is an evolution of original Elise chassis. The VVA chassis is modular and can be used on a range of vehicles.
http://www.lotuscars.com/engineering/vehicle-platf...
SidewaysSi said:
Sure - I found the GT4 to be a very good car and depending on the type of driver you are, it may be brilliant. However, for it to really shine you need to drive it hard and fast which is very difficult in the UK.
Great if you are happy to track it, live abroad or don't really worry about your licence. The car has lots of grip and ability and like plenty of modern cars, really quite high limits.
Consequently for the type of driving I tend to do (fast Sunday road blasts), it was a bit boring. Gearing is tall, steering is good but somewhat aloof and whist the chassis and damping were great, I didn't feel I could get a thrill from pushing the car on road.
However I am lucky to have a Caterham and modified S1 Elise Sport 160 and for this type of driving they ran rings around the Cayman. Fun, exciting, tactile, slideable and thrilling on road at all speeds. Hence with access to those three keys, it was often the GT4 that got left at home. So it was sold.
It ia perhaps unfair to compare the Porsche against 2 very raw cars but the lightweights showed up the Cayman. And if course even combined they are considerably cheaper.
However, I will caveat it and say that if you are after one car to do it all - road, track, shopping etc., then only one would really do it all and that is the Elise...with the GT4 a closeish second! And if you want to spend nigh on £100k, I would go for this Evora or an Exige 380 Cup.
good summary. same bloody problem with the GT3 except even worse....Great if you are happy to track it, live abroad or don't really worry about your licence. The car has lots of grip and ability and like plenty of modern cars, really quite high limits.
Consequently for the type of driving I tend to do (fast Sunday road blasts), it was a bit boring. Gearing is tall, steering is good but somewhat aloof and whist the chassis and damping were great, I didn't feel I could get a thrill from pushing the car on road.
However I am lucky to have a Caterham and modified S1 Elise Sport 160 and for this type of driving they ran rings around the Cayman. Fun, exciting, tactile, slideable and thrilling on road at all speeds. Hence with access to those three keys, it was often the GT4 that got left at home. So it was sold.
It ia perhaps unfair to compare the Porsche against 2 very raw cars but the lightweights showed up the Cayman. And if course even combined they are considerably cheaper.
However, I will caveat it and say that if you are after one car to do it all - road, track, shopping etc., then only one would really do it all and that is the Elise...with the GT4 a closeish second! And if you want to spend nigh on £100k, I would go for this Evora or an Exige 380 Cup.
chassis is too good for road driving unless it is wet, then you get worried about safety margins on roads... but shines on track.. how can it not. a representative example is 1400kg with full fluids, robust and high quality suspension and brakes right out of the box. Gearing that actually makes sense on track and noise is less of an issue (loud anyways)
but if you only do road driving....... get a bog standard 987 cayman. sending this kind of money on a machine just to have the nous of a track car but not using it as such is not something I do. many do.
saying that driving a proper tin top vs a cater ham / atom type car is a completely different proposition. safety level is also completely different.
i agree with Mr D.
everyone says great car but no one in the UK will buy it.....................
lotus knows it and is targeting far east and the U.S where they still have brand mystic and rarity is in their favour.
here we have too many cheap elises and people married to the idea of a 30k lotus. It takes decades to change perception so they have decided to dump the struggling UK market. You either get their new marketing strategy or you don't. For every car they now sell, the profit margin is prolly up there with porsche. But, they sell tiny amounts.
so whilst porsche kills the market with artificially low priced Gt cars in relatively big volumes, I'd argue that lotus really needs to have the 2 fold strategy they currently have and avoid competing with porsche in any way possible. i.e. offer evora GT at people who won't pay big real market premiums on gt3s (which is prolly the real pricing) and offering 250 cups (with real track focus ) against cayman sports car drivers.
But there is no solution against someone who daily commutes in a cayman and 911. and especially against the 2+2 911, there never will be. No car can be as versatile now that they have conquered the rear engine handling traits for the common folk.
everyone says great car but no one in the UK will buy it.....................
lotus knows it and is targeting far east and the U.S where they still have brand mystic and rarity is in their favour.
here we have too many cheap elises and people married to the idea of a 30k lotus. It takes decades to change perception so they have decided to dump the struggling UK market. You either get their new marketing strategy or you don't. For every car they now sell, the profit margin is prolly up there with porsche. But, they sell tiny amounts.
so whilst porsche kills the market with artificially low priced Gt cars in relatively big volumes, I'd argue that lotus really needs to have the 2 fold strategy they currently have and avoid competing with porsche in any way possible. i.e. offer evora GT at people who won't pay big real market premiums on gt3s (which is prolly the real pricing) and offering 250 cups (with real track focus ) against cayman sports car drivers.
But there is no solution against someone who daily commutes in a cayman and 911. and especially against the 2+2 911, there never will be. No car can be as versatile now that they have conquered the rear engine handling traits for the common folk.
HokumPokum said:
chassis is too good for road driving .
I never understand this sort of comment. It's not at all a matter of whether the chassis is 'too good' but how much feedback and 'feel' for lack of a better word that the driver gets from the car at normal semi legal road speeds. The gt4 is imo very detached and clinical in this respect compared to any of the 7gt3s. It's not bad compared to the rest of the current 9X1 Porsche range but really nowhere compared to a car with what I'd consider decent driving feel which I'd consider the exige v6 definitely to have (haven't driven an evora much so can't comment on that). let's put it this way then,
chassis super stiff allows fully adaptive sports suspension and grippy tyres... what we like on track. on limit, you get the feel.
but the price is, below that limit, chassis or whatever you want to call it doesn't allow you to get enough feedback and you rely on the engine to give you the race car feel. The 997 RS is different. you get the single mass flywheel, the bag of nails engine and the short wheelbase, all to liven up the feel.... things that were engineered out in the 981/991.. never tried the 991 RS though.
better/faster on track than before but at a penalty for road use imo.
chassis super stiff allows fully adaptive sports suspension and grippy tyres... what we like on track. on limit, you get the feel.
but the price is, below that limit, chassis or whatever you want to call it doesn't allow you to get enough feedback and you rely on the engine to give you the race car feel. The 997 RS is different. you get the single mass flywheel, the bag of nails engine and the short wheelbase, all to liven up the feel.... things that were engineered out in the 981/991.. never tried the 991 RS though.
better/faster on track than before but at a penalty for road use imo.
Porsche911R said:
lol
what's the fastest you have done in your Evora ?
I have done 165MPh in the GT4 and that's still way off vmax.
I expect this response from a 15 year old not a Car driver !
Can't be arsed to repeat myself, just read and understand every word of my post, even the little ones. what's the fastest you have done in your Evora ?
I have done 165MPh in the GT4 and that's still way off vmax.
I expect this response from a 15 year old not a Car driver !
Thanks
blueg33 said:
Porsche911R said:
lol
what's the fastest you have done in your Evora ?
I have done 165MPh in the GT4 and that's still way off vmax.
I expect this response from a 15 year old not a Car driver !
Can't be arsed to repeat myself, just read and understand every word of my post, even the little ones. what's the fastest you have done in your Evora ?
I have done 165MPh in the GT4 and that's still way off vmax.
I expect this response from a 15 year old not a Car driver !
Thanks
PH said:
Lotus claims 0-100mph in less than eight seconds, and 196mph flat out, giving it the highest top speed of any Lotus production car.
Does it matter?I agree. Reference to top speed is irrelevant. Equally, reference to any statistic is pointless and childish - ring times included. Who really cares whether a car goes 10 seconds quicker round the ring?!?
How big is smile when you drive the car? The only question worth asking surely?!
There's a lot of the 'pot calling the kettle black' here.
How big is smile when you drive the car? The only question worth asking surely?!
There's a lot of the 'pot calling the kettle black' here.
HokumPokum said:
But there is no solution against someone who daily commutes in a cayman and 911. and especially against the 2+2 911, there never will be. No car can be as versatile now that they have conquered the rear engine handling traits for the common folk.
I use my Evora as my daily driver, mostly to and from the station (20 miles across Cotswold B roads though 
) and for school runs. I chose it over a Cayman or a 911, because of:Sublime telepathic steering in the Evora
911 and Cayman too common
911 and Cayman too anodyne
Better sense of occasion every time in the Evora
Looks (Evora looks like a baby supercar the Porsches just look like every other Porsche)
Evora has better depreciation when buying low mileage used
Evora is cheaper to run overall
The new GT430 Sport wont lose any of those benefits, it looks even better, it goes even better.
blueg33 said:
I use my Evora as my daily driver, mostly to and from the station (20 miles across Cotswold B roads though ) and for school runs. I chose it over a Cayman or a 911, because of:
Sublime telepathic steering in the Evora
911 and Cayman too common
911 and Cayman too anodyne
Better sense of occasion every time in the Evora
Looks (Evora looks like a baby supercar the Porsches just look like every other Porsche)
Evora has better depreciation when buying low mileage used
Evora is cheaper to run overall
The new GT430 Sport wont lose any of those benefits, it looks even better, it goes even better.
yes. I agree 2+2 maybe works but you will never have the same amount of luggage space in a 911 where you can use the front and the rear seats to dump bags. and I think you actually have even less space in the rear than a 911. ) and for school runs. I chose it over a Cayman or a 911, because of:Sublime telepathic steering in the Evora
911 and Cayman too common
911 and Cayman too anodyne
Better sense of occasion every time in the Evora
Looks (Evora looks like a baby supercar the Porsches just look like every other Porsche)
Evora has better depreciation when buying low mileage used
Evora is cheaper to run overall
The new GT430 Sport wont lose any of those benefits, it looks even better, it goes even better.
the packaging in a rear engined car is perfect. It is the maximum use of space within a small confined area. sure you can make the car bigger but that sorta defeats the purpose of a sports car.
The thing about the 911 is inherently what maximises space is bad for dynamics. hence the last 40 years, porsche spent trying to get rid of the turn in understeer and pendulum effect of getting the rear to help turn in. well, because they have been so successful with the chassis/dynamics, they have turned it around and now with more electronics, the car is less understeer and the heavy arse is well managed. This then makes the packaging of the car even more attractive. It really is a win win once they have mastered the handling traits plus all drivers worth their salt want to master the rear heavy 911 and trail brake their way to heaven. There really is NO substitute.
Whether you are looking for an all round package is another question. It is not dramatic looking but has brand allure. It is way more common (guess why). but if you want only 1 car to do everything, still unbeatable. and now, unbelievably fast as well. it's bloody irritating.
so we look for 2 seaters than. Lotus in that case I think makes a more compelling case. But porsche ain't stupid, they lower margins on the cayman /boxster to try and crowd everyone else out. The Gt4 is a strategy to reinforce that, in case people think they won't step on the 911's shoes. They have long figured out that the 911 buyers care more for brand allure and packaging than anything else. That's why even the base 911 makes them a margin of >30% let alone the more expensive variants. Do you realise/know a 911 turbo S is more profitable for porsche than the 812 is for Ferrari?
back to 2 seater lotus... I think the elise / exige variants are the future for lotus as well as hardcore evoras. No point trying to sell something versatile. Lotus doesn't have the manufacturing quality nor the packaging. Proper sports and racing is where they excel at and the transition from track day specials to porsches is a big one where lotus can make an impact. They are moving in the right direction with exige 380 cup/elise 250 cup and the evora 430 Gt.
just wished it was cheaper. If you want to charge that much, you can't put in a supercharged camry v6 without forged internals, raised redline and a proper sequential.
blueg33 said:
I use my Evora as my daily driver, mostly to and from the station (20 miles across Cotswold B roads though ) and for school runs. I chose it over a Cayman or a 911, because of:
Sublime telepathic steering in the Evora
911 and Cayman too common
911 and Cayman too anodyne
Better sense of occasion every time in the Evora
Looks (Evora looks like a baby supercar the Porsches just look like every other Porsche)
Evora has better depreciation when buying low mileage used
Evora is cheaper to run overall
The new GT430 Sport wont lose any of those benefits, it looks even better, it goes even better.
I've a 911 991 Turbo S and a 360 Cup. Would take either car for a Sunday blat, the Exige is in no way more fun than the Porsche. Different yes, more fun, no. ) and for school runs. I chose it over a Cayman or a 911, because of:Sublime telepathic steering in the Evora
911 and Cayman too common
911 and Cayman too anodyne
Better sense of occasion every time in the Evora
Looks (Evora looks like a baby supercar the Porsches just look like every other Porsche)
Evora has better depreciation when buying low mileage used
Evora is cheaper to run overall
The new GT430 Sport wont lose any of those benefits, it looks even better, it goes even better.
As to running costs, I had the brake fluid changed by Porsche main dealer recently, £60. My Exige went in for its first annual service comprising an oil and filter change and some checks, £450. £450 for an oil change on a Toyota taxi engine. And by Peugeot as Lotus don't have a Lotus service centre in Leeds.
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