LED's the new HID upgrade?

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

Purely from a technical and light output point of view, are LED upgrades now as good if not better than HIDs?
Maybe last year this wasn't the case...but from what I'm seeing, aftermarket LED bulbs are now seriously bright and I suspect the bad boyz upgrade of choice?!
Just wondering if anyone has any experience...do they produce lots of annoying light scatter like HID's do in an open reflector bowl, non-projector style housing?

Who will be the first to post the DfT report. Who will be the first to tell us they're illegal. Don't forget to mention E marked lenses...
(secretly hoping for sensible real life experience rather than the usual childish slagging match)

[Krikkit]

Dunno about replacing dipped beams with them, but I'm going to be replacing side and foglights on my W211 with them to colour-match the OEM HIDs.

Already have a set of sidelights on another car and they're great - a set of Ring ones for £10 and they're both brighter and a nicer match than the previous incandescent bulbs.

[832ark]

Krikkit said:

Dunno about replacing dipped beams with them, but I'm going to be replacing side and foglights on my W211 with them to colour-match the OEM HIDs.

Already have a set of sidelights on another car and they're great - a set of Ring ones for £10 and they're both brighter and a nicer match than the previous incandescent bulbs.

Why bother colour matching the foglights? Surely you use them so infrequently it doesn't matter? Unless they're used as cornering lights of course!

[Tuvra]

832ark said:

Why bother colour matching the foglights? Surely you use them so infrequently it doesn't matter? Unless they're used as cornering lights of course!

Because they look crap when they are on. I did mine on the Focus straight away, used them twice in 8,500 miles

[Filibuster]

Not long ago I started a thread about LED replacement headlights.
Didn't score any interest, so I repeat my post here:

Filibuster said:

Driving a car with good old fashioned H7 Halogen bulbs, I had a look around for alternatives.
Apparently the best H7 Halogen bulbs at the moment are the Philips Racing Vision.
I don't know what exactly the rules are in the UK, but on the continent you need ECE approved (E-marks) bulbs in order to stay road legal.
There are none on the market that I'm aware of which have either a DOT or ECE mark.

But seeing that Philips has launched a range of LED bulbs for H4; H7; H8; H11 and H16 for certain markets, I wonder how long before they get ECE approved.





I know that you need auto adjust and washers above 2'000 lm, but due to different measurements with LED (that I don't fully understand) there is a good chance you will not be needing either with LED bulbs.
What do people think how long it takes before we have legal LED bulbs as a replacement for Halogen?

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

Yeah that's what I'm talking about...eBay is now awash with LED bulbs for around £20. These are the high power headlight bulbs by the way...you wouldn't want these as sidelight bulbs
People used to froth at the mouth when HID kits were mentioned, but LED's seem to have slipped under the radar.

...anyone else mentioning fog lights is banned from this discussion henceforth!

[shakotan]

I have a generic Chinese set for my Main/Dip headlamps and they are really good.

You need the units similar to the Philips ones above, with additional cooling heatsinks and fans, and the additional ballast resistor.

The uber cheap bulbs that just have LED chips instead of the filament won't output anywhere near enough light.

[shakotan]

Filibuster said:

I know that you need auto adjust and washers above 2'000 lm, but due to different measurements with LED (that I don't fully understand) there is a good chance you will not be needing either with LED bulbs.
What do people think how long it takes before we have legal LED bulbs as a replacement for Halogen?

Where is that written?

I know the MOT regs say if you have LEDs or HIDs and you have washers and self-levellers they must work, but if they are not fitted they are not a failure item.

[Filibuster]

shakotan said:

Filibuster said:

I know that you need auto adjust and washers above 2'000 lm, but due to different measurements with LED (that I don't fully understand) there is a good chance you will not be needing either with LED bulbs.
What do people think how long it takes before we have legal LED bulbs as a replacement for Halogen?

Where is that written?

I know the MOT regs say if you have LEDs or HIDs and you have washers and self-levellers they must work, but if they are not fitted they are not a failure item.

Don't know about the UK, but in Switzerland, Germany and I thought in all of the EU it is mandatory above 2'000 lm.
But due to different measuring methods with LED headlights (the ones that come as one unit) the new W213 Mercedes E-Class doesn't need washers despite having LED headlights.

ETA

From here:

Edited by Filibuster on Thursday 7th September 11:53

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

shakotan said:

I have a generic Chinese set for my Main/Dip headlamps and they are really good.

You need the units similar to the Philips ones above, with additional cooling heatsinks and fans, and the additional ballast resistor.

The uber cheap bulbs that just have LED chips instead of the filament won't output anywhere near enough light.

Bingo - thanks. This is the sort of reply I was hoping for...
So are they brighter, do they cause much glare or light scatter etc?
I have fitted HID's in the past and wasn't happy with the scatter and muzzy low beam cutoff etc.

[Alucidnation]

According to that reg, it says that they do have to be fitted with LED or HID headlights of 2000 lux or more.

[AW111]

For those of us with older cars, there's a much better (but expensive) solution : replace the whole light unit with a led one.
They are available in round and rectangular sizes, and the good ones are ADR/ECE compliant.

[Stenasev]

I fitted a set yesterday and have only driven about 3 miles so far with them on. They do look fantastic to look at which I suspect is a reason many people fit them. A very brief review would be that the short range brightness is much better but maybe they lack the throw of halogens?

The thing that struck me the most is the effect on surrounding reflective or white/light objects, road signs, number plates, people with hi-viz etc. These appear so much brighter and are brought to your attention quickly.

Only issue with my car and it could be a deal breaker is that they flicker when the car is started for around 5 seconds and a bulb warning light comes on. When the lights are actually turned on the bulb warning disappears and they don't flicker. The bulbs are £20 ebay jobs with fans and separate ballast supposedly to eliminate flicker

I may try some with a different ballast or decoder as they call them to see if that helps. If I get a set that works I will be doing main beams as well as they look positively orange in comparison. I may end up putting them in a non-canbus car as I presume that is the reason for the flickering.

I know my headlights need a good polishing!!

[Filibuster]

AW111 said:

For those of us with older cars, there's a much better (but expensive) solution : replace the whole light unit with a led one.
They are available in round and rectangular sizes, and the good ones are ADR/ECE compliant.

I have seen those! They do the classic 7" headlamps many classic cars and bike used in LED form and as you said, some even with ECE markings.
So why can't I use a high quality (e.g. the Philips ones) LED replacement bulbs and put them in my high quality Bosch 7" headlamps??
Or any other Halogen Headlight housing?

Well I know why, but it is such an idiotic, bureaucratic decision and I can't see it changing anytime soon

[AW111]

Filibuster said:

I have seen those! They do the classic 7" headlamps many classic cars and bike used in LED form and as you said, some even with ECE markings.
So why can't I use a high quality (e.g. the Philips ones) LED replacement bulbs and put them in my high quality Bosch 7" headlamps??
Or any other Halogen Headlight housing?

Well I know why, but it is such an idiotic, bureaucratic decision and I can't see it changing anytime soon

The difference is that the new reflectors are designed for led whereas the led bulbs are a compromise, as they are emulating a halogen filament bulb.

[dorset_clive]

Stenasev said:

A very brief review would be that the short range brightness is much better but maybe they lack the throw of halogens?

There has been a lot of discussion in rallying circles about the pros and cons of LED auxiliary lights. Your review pretty much sums up those pages and pages of discussion - great for near-distance, wide spread, no where near as good as HIDs or halogen for long distance.

[JakeT]

Stenasev said:

I fitted a set yesterday and have only driven about 3 miles so far with them on. They do look fantastic to look at which I suspect is a reason many people fit them. A very brief review would be that the short range brightness is much better but maybe they lack the throw of halogens?

The thing that struck me the most is the effect on surrounding reflective or white/light objects, road signs, number plates, people with hi-viz etc. These appear so much brighter and are brought to your attention quickly.

Only issue with my car and it could be a deal breaker is that they flicker when the car is started for around 5 seconds and a bulb warning light comes on. When the lights are actually turned on the bulb warning disappears and they don't flicker. The bulbs are £20 ebay jobs with fans and separate ballast supposedly to eliminate flicker

I may try some with a different ballast or decoder as they call them to see if that helps. If I get a set that works I will be doing main beams as well as they look positively orange in comparison. I may end up putting them in a non-canbus car as I presume that is the reason for the flickering.

I know my headlights need a good polishing!!

On some cars you can code the bulb check out. I know on BMWs you can.

[Triumph Man]

832ark said:

Krikkit said:

Dunno about replacing dipped beams with them, but I'm going to be replacing side and foglights on my W211 with them to colour-match the OEM HIDs.

Already have a set of sidelights on another car and they're great - a set of Ring ones for £10 and they're both brighter and a nicer match than the previous incandescent bulbs.

Why bother colour matching the foglights? Surely you use them so infrequently it doesn't matter? Unless they're used as cornering lights of course!

He might be a foglight wker

[Filibuster]

AW111 said:

The difference is that the new reflectors are designed for led whereas the led bulbs are a compromise, as they are emulating a halogen filament bulb.

Yes, I know and you are quite right. But unless you have a sealed beam headlight, you always have a varying factor with the bulb. Look at the vast differences between (ECE approved!) H7 bulbs we have today. Of course you can get the best results with reflectors built for an exact LED.
But the point is, you can vastly improve almost all Halogen Headlamps with quality LED bulbs withouts dazzling oncoming traffic. And they will almost certainly not exceed 2'000lm measured in front of the headlight, but the bulb has to be measured without any headlight housing and thus will exceed 2'000lm so will not become ECE approved.
This is the part that grinds my gears!!

[Wait Here Until Green Light Shows]

The problem with fitting a brighter light source into a reflector bowl type housing is best answered by this little analogy I just came up with...
Imagine a funnel in the top of a bucket. Now imagine pouring water into the bucket via the funnel...the funnel outlet is just big enough to let all the water safely into the bucket. Now imagine two people trying to pour water into the bucket...now the funnel outlet isn't big enough, and the excess water spills over the top of the funnel.
It's the same with fitting HID's to a normal reflector - there is too much light to focus and it spills out as glare and scatter (the sharp cutoff becomes fuzzy). The chap above said reflective objects show up better...I suspect this is caused by light scatter?
The only real answer is to fit a projector style unit (£10 on eBay) which I did a while ago on my bike... https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...