RE: New TVR Griffith - official

RE: New TVR Griffith - official

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Discussion

JxJ Jr.

652 posts

70 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Coincidentally, the folks at new TVR claim that COVID-19 has no impact on their business.
It's kinda true though. The auditor drew attention to the "material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the Company's ability to continue as a going concern.". So it is likely kaput as it is and COVID-19 ain't going to change that.

Europa1

10,923 posts

188 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
JxJ Jr. said:
unsprung said:
Coincidentally, the folks at new TVR claim that COVID-19 has no impact on their business.
It's kinda true though. The auditor drew attention to the "material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the Company's ability to continue as a going concern.". So it is likely kaput as it is and COVID-19 ain't going to change that.
They may be technically correct. It was in intensive care before Covid-19.

unsprung

5,467 posts

124 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all

JxJ Jr. said:
unsprung said:
Coincidentally, the folks at new TVR claim that COVID-19 has no impact on their business.
It's kinda true though. The auditor drew attention to the "material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the Company's ability to continue as a going concern.". So it is likely kaput as it is and COVID-19 ain't going to change that.
Respectfully... Your words make it appear that you are making a false statement.

In its most recent documents published at Companies House, TVR dedicates specific paragraphs to COVID-19 -- stating that the pandemic presents "no immediate or foreseen risk to TVR operationally or as a going concern."

In those same documents, TVR cites current debt as well as current plans, during the pandemic, to raise incremental funds -- plans which TVR says have already progressed to a significant degree and which TVR casts in a positive and likely light.

Your argument is joining up the wrong dots, imo, and is an example of how forums have a tendency to manufacture rumour.


anonymous-user

54 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
unsprung said:
plans which TVR says have already progressed to a significant degree and which TVR casts in a positive and likely light.
Well except for the fact they are talking total crap. Here are the two possible states for TVRs plans:

1) STATE A - Investment has not been agreed and signed

2) STATE B - Investment has been agreed or signed


Those states are mutually exclusive, and you are no further along any "plan" until State A, becomes State B.


And of course, although TVR (correctly) state that C19 has had no affect on their business on its day-to-day running (because it doesn't do anything day-to-day), i think it would be incredibly foolish to think that C19 has had no impact on the Investment and Investor arena. If getting someone to risk multiple millions on a fledgeling car company was hard before, then i'm going to suggest it's got even harder now, during and after C19 has decimated a lot of economies.......

JxJ Jr.

652 posts

70 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all
unsprung said:
Respectfully... Your words make it appear that you are making a false statement.

In its most recent documents published at Companies House, TVR dedicates specific paragraphs to COVID-19 -- stating that the pandemic presents "no immediate or foreseen risk to TVR operationally or as a going concern."

In those same documents, TVR cites current debt as well as current plans, during the pandemic, to raise incremental funds -- plans which TVR says have already progressed to a significant degree and which TVR casts in a positive and likely light.

Your argument is joining up the wrong dots, imo, and is an example of how forums have a tendency to manufacture rumour.
The comment was tongue in cheek.

It does indeed say that the virus presents no risk operationally or as a going concern, but it qualifies that by saying it's because they're at a 'pre-production stage'. So product development can tick along but sales and production aren't impacted because...there aren't any to impact.

As for the future funding requirements, they imply negotiations are at an advanced stage and there's 'significant interest' but unless a deal is done, there's still a risk. Just look at Softbank walking away from a term sheet to WeWork.

It's also hard to argue that since that was filed and today that the outlook for either demand or for investment would have improved. At the end of the day TVR are saying they're unaffected by the virus, investment looks positive and the material uncertainty has been mitigated, the auditor is highlighting there is material uncertainty. People have to make their own judgement on where the reality lies.

unsprung

5,467 posts

124 months

Wednesday 20th May 2020
quotequote all

The excuse of COVID-19 has been handed to TVR on a platter, and they said No.

Now... If the length and depth of this pandemic eventually do take a toll on the plans being worked at the moment by TVR, that is an event that has yet to occur.





NRS

22,165 posts

201 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
unsprung said:
JxJ Jr. said:
unsprung said:
Coincidentally, the folks at new TVR claim that COVID-19 has no impact on their business.
It's kinda true though. The auditor drew attention to the "material uncertainty exists that may cast doubt on the Company's ability to continue as a going concern.". So it is likely kaput as it is and COVID-19 ain't going to change that.
Respectfully... Your words make it appear that you are making a false statement.

In its most recent documents published at Companies House, TVR dedicates specific paragraphs to COVID-19 -- stating that the pandemic presents "no immediate or foreseen risk to TVR operationally or as a going concern."

In those same documents, TVR cites current debt as well as current plans, during the pandemic, to raise incremental funds -- plans which TVR says have already progressed to a significant degree and which TVR casts in a positive and likely light.

Your argument is joining up the wrong dots, imo, and is an example of how forums have a tendency to manufacture rumour.
It was the auditor he mentioned, not TVR themselves.

It'd say it's pretty clear TVR are waiting around for some big investment to be able to build the equipment to make lots of cars, and that is not likely to come. Hence the pause for what seems to be a year or two of basically not much happening. I'd love them to succeed, but the market is very different now to where it used to be some decades back.

Jonny TVR

4,534 posts

281 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
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Niffty951 said:
Hopefully they'll sell the name off for £1 like Rover. We can group buy a few 2009-2012 Caymans, re-body it with something exotic and TVR like made in a shed out of fiberglass, shoehorn in an AMG or Audi twin turbo 4.0 V8 with remap and there you have it.

Amazing handling, reliable, TVR kit car that's mid engined V8. 400hp per tonne for £50k in stores by 2021
We all know that £50k in 2000 equates to £90K in 2020 with inflation. You aren't going to get a new £50K TVR

swisstoni

16,997 posts

279 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
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In today’s money a Griffith 500 would be £60k basic.

Jonny TVR

4,534 posts

281 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
In today’s money a Griffith 500 would be £60k basic.
It would be nearer £80k I reckon

swisstoni

16,997 posts

279 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Jonny TVR said:
swisstoni said:
In today’s money a Griffith 500 would be £60k basic.
It would be nearer £80k I reckon
Let’s call it £70k. That’s what £35k in 1994 is today.
(I know the 1994 figure because I was visiting TVR dealers to chop in my S3 that year).

Jonny TVR

4,534 posts

281 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
swisstoni said:
Let’s call it £70k. That’s what £35k in 1994 is today.
(I know the 1994 figure because I was visiting TVR dealers to chop in my S3 that year).
agreed

SpeckledJim

31,608 posts

253 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Sadly I think this was doomed from the moment they signed-off the final styling. Everything since then has been driving down a cul-de-sac.

If it's not as good as a Porsche (and of course it isn't) then it HAS to be better-looking than a Porsche. Which it could have been, as the previous TVRs all were. But this isn't.

Lee Jones Jnr

1,724 posts

170 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Surely Morgan owners (or more likely their children) are the market TVR should be aiming for, certainly the small team/small factory/small output model

anonymous-user

54 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Surely Morgan owners (or more likely their children) are the market TVR should be aiming for, certainly the small team/small factory/small output model
I think Morgan owners will still buy Morgans. TVRs are a bit too new fangled.

IforB

9,840 posts

229 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Argleton said:
Lee Jones Jnr said:
Surely Morgan owners (or more likely their children) are the market TVR should be aiming for, certainly the small team/small factory/small output model
I think Morgan owners will still buy Morgans. TVRs are a bit too new fangled.
Agreed, Morgans are very niche and you either love them to bits or you don't. If you get it and you have the funds, you will buy one, they are a very different person from a TVR owner in my experience.

TVR's have always been loud and brash (or certainly in the latter stages of the original marque) whereas Morgans are bonkers but have a very different air about them.

I love them both, I would happily have both a Morgan and a TVR in the fantasy garage as they are different things and scratch different itches despite being on the surface, similar things.

Lee Jones Jnr

1,724 posts

170 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
I wasn’t suggesting that the cars are similar nor that they share buyers, hence the ‘or more likely their children’.
Perhaps it was poorly worded.
My point was more that rather than waiting to find the investment required to set up an automated production line and churn out any kind of volume, a better approach may be to follow the Morgan business model.
Perhaps a Ginetta style race series even?

CABC

5,576 posts

101 months

Thursday 21st May 2020
quotequote all
Lee Jones Jnr said:
I wasn’t suggesting that the cars are similar nor that they share buyers, hence the ‘or more likely their children’.
Perhaps it was poorly worded.
My point was more that rather than waiting to find the investment required to set up an automated production line and churn out any kind of volume, a better approach may be to follow the Morgan business model.
Perhaps a Ginetta style race series even?
the Morgan production line is getting more organised, if not quite automated. pure hand built is a difficult business at 40k, and so they're moving to 60k+.
Lotus is an interesting factory (tours available). no robots but very organised and partially automated. They're very profitable..
Interestingly, many Morgan owners have a Lotus too.

ATG

20,575 posts

272 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
CABC said:
the Morgan production line is getting more organised, if not quite automated. pure hand built is a difficult business at 40k, and so they're moving to 60k+.
Lotus is an interesting factory (tours available). no robots but very organised and partially automated. They're very profitable..
Interestingly, many Morgan owners have a Lotus too.
Lotus "very profitable"? They're loss-making, aren't they??

anonymous-user

54 months

Friday 22nd May 2020
quotequote all
ATG said:
Lotus "very profitable"? They're loss-making, aren't they??
Ah, but not if you are true believer and/or get rich Uncle Geely on board with a bit of clever number-juggling. This from 2017,

"Lotus has, for the "first time in many years," reported a profit, according to the press release from the automaker. Lotus called this event a "radical financial turnaround" and "a major milestone" in the history of the company.

"Specifically, the recently-minted Geely subsidiary posted a positive EBITDA (that's earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization for you non-finance majors) last year of $2.6 million—a significant achievement considering the company lost the equivalent of over $21 million by the same metric the year before that.

"While Lotus recorded a positive EBITDA, you might be thinking, "Interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization don't sound like insignificant expenses at all." Well, they aren't. In fact, measuring by Profits Before Taxes, Lotus was still in the red by $14.5 million. While that sounds bad, don't write off today's news as financial posturing just yet. For some perspective, Lotus posted a negative PBT of a whopping $53.5 million the year before last, marking almost $30 million less cash lost year-to-year. With that momentum, we wouldn't be surprised if the boutique car firm was straight-up profitable by the end of this fiscal year."

So, in summary, it looks as though Geely have introduced measures which at least make the company's books look better! But I'm very glad I'm not a shareholder...