RE: 2018 Ford Mustang facelift announced
Discussion
unsprung said:
I apologise, but there may be a forest-for-the-trees thing going on here.
In the US most Mustangs are neither "heavily modified" nor modified at all. And there are a lot more fully-optioned Mustangs running about than fully-optioned Mercedes-Benz cars. Ask Joe Bloggs: He'll tell you that he can afford the former, but not the latter.
Ardent US fans modify Mercedes-Benz cars, including the C63. They are fewer in number -- not because Mercedes-Benz is "as good as it should be" -- but because Mercedes-Benz tend to be bloody expensive (and, consequently, off limits to most folks).
And yet the C63 is as good as it should be which is why there is no booming aftermarket parts network for it. The mustang isn't, it's got so much more untapped potential than any of its German competitors because of where Ford has priced it and the compromises they have made and they themselves will sell you the parts complete with warranty to address those shortcomings, that situation does not exist with German manufacturers.In the US most Mustangs are neither "heavily modified" nor modified at all. And there are a lot more fully-optioned Mustangs running about than fully-optioned Mercedes-Benz cars. Ask Joe Bloggs: He'll tell you that he can afford the former, but not the latter.
Ardent US fans modify Mercedes-Benz cars, including the C63. They are fewer in number -- not because Mercedes-Benz is "as good as it should be" -- but because Mercedes-Benz tend to be bloody expensive (and, consequently, off limits to most folks).
That Americans will gladly ruin a perfectly good C63 is neither here nor there. That's just a more money than sense situation.
djc206 said:
And yet the C63 is as good as it should be which is why there is no booming aftermarket parts network for it. The mustang isn't, it's got so much more untapped potential than any of its German competitors because of where Ford has priced it and the compromises they have made and they themselves will sell you the parts complete with warranty to address those shortcomings, that situation does not exist with German manufacturers.
That Americans will gladly ruin a perfectly good C63 is neither here nor there. That's just a more money than sense situation.
I believe that you're wrong.That Americans will gladly ruin a perfectly good C63 is neither here nor there. That's just a more money than sense situation.
unsprung said:
djc206 said:
And yet the C63 is as good as it should be which is why there is no booming aftermarket parts network for it. The mustang isn't, it's got so much more untapped potential than any of its German competitors because of where Ford has priced it and the compromises they have made and they themselves will sell you the parts complete with warranty to address those shortcomings, that situation does not exist with German manufacturers.
That Americans will gladly ruin a perfectly good C63 is neither here nor there. That's just a more money than sense situation.
I believe that you're wrong.That Americans will gladly ruin a perfectly good C63 is neither here nor there. That's just a more money than sense situation.
Otispunkmeyer said:
culpz said:
10-speed gearbox! There's me thinking that a ZF 8-speed sounded excessive 
Interesting to hear about the loss of power on the Ecoboost engine as well as a gas particulate filter. Is that basically a DPF for petrol engines? Is this the first modern car to have one of these?
Unsure, they've been in the works for some time. I think this is the first one I have heard of publicly. The GPF basically works exactly the same as a DPF... i.e. it'll be a ceramic based, wall-flow type filter. I suspect the cell density is rather high though to catch the smaller gasoline particulates. This will be because on a normal cell density as used for DPFs, a gasoline filter may take a long time to build up a cake-layer on its walls; It is actually the cake layer which allows such high filtration, a brand new DPF is actually worse than a pre-loaded one... you need to fill the pores in the walls and then build a cake layer. Interesting to hear about the loss of power on the Ecoboost engine as well as a gas particulate filter. Is that basically a DPF for petrol engines? Is this the first modern car to have one of these?
So denser structure to aid that process.... obviously means higher back pressure.
I think these shouldnt see the problems that we saw with DPFs. As mentioned it will take a long time to collect any significant amount of PM before it needs regenerating and because gasoline exhaust temperatures are high (routinely over 600 deg C as opposed to diesel) then a little bit of lean running should see it all burned off without any extra stuff being needed.
On diesel passenger cars, for a time, they went with cooler engine calibrations and a DPF (as opposed to hotter and using an SCR because packaging a DPF is much easier). But its very hard then to get exhaust temps up to the 600 deg needed to oxidise diesel soot; hence post injection and oxidation catalysts and catalysts to produce extra NO/NO2 to bring the reaction temperature down to around 400. Now of course, you need SCR and DPF to meet the Euro standards.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
I reckon a bare bones GT will just sneak under £40k, for the pricing strategy.
With the fancy options, I don't think you'll get much change from £45k.
I hope you're right but I think it might be a bit more. An absolute bog spec GT is £38,095 now in the UK. Mine would be £41,775.With the fancy options, I don't think you'll get much change from £45k.
kapiteinlangzaam said:
Whatever the new prices are, they are certain to make us early adopters feel a bit glib at the comparative bargains we got when paying approx 32-33k.
The pricing is an interesting thing, because I still think the new GT is *worth* 45k, but Ford have got so much to do in terms of customer support and service , and parts supply and general quality control.
They have gotten away with *a lot* on the 15/16 models as people were generally a bit more forgiving.... new concept, rare car, low price etc etc. At 45k they need to pull their socks up massively.
Two weeks ago I needed a new clutch release bearing. Only one of them in the whole of Europe (took 7 days to reach the dealer) and then it went on permanent back-order for USA supply. That's frankly ridiculous, and Ford being Ford wont give you a replacement car in the mean-time.
Agreed, mine was in today for 4 things, all of which were quality control related. Nothing major but as you say parts now on order so anyone's guess when the issues will get sorted.The pricing is an interesting thing, because I still think the new GT is *worth* 45k, but Ford have got so much to do in terms of customer support and service , and parts supply and general quality control.
They have gotten away with *a lot* on the 15/16 models as people were generally a bit more forgiving.... new concept, rare car, low price etc etc. At 45k they need to pull their socks up massively.
Two weeks ago I needed a new clutch release bearing. Only one of them in the whole of Europe (took 7 days to reach the dealer) and then it went on permanent back-order for USA supply. That's frankly ridiculous, and Ford being Ford wont give you a replacement car in the mean-time.
No courtesy car? That's a joke. I would not take that lightly.
I called a dealer yesterday to enquire about the new Mustang and he didn't even know a new one was coming out next year.
Can anyone recommend a dealer that would know? I'm tempted to get onto the waiting list to see what the final prices are like, and then either ask for the deposit back or take the plunge when my slot comes up.
Can anyone recommend a dealer that would know? I'm tempted to get onto the waiting list to see what the final prices are like, and then either ask for the deposit back or take the plunge when my slot comes up.
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