Near Theft of my S3
Discussion
IJB1959 said:
Your key could be hacked just being out and about with it in your pocket, or scanned by locking/unlocking your car in a car park etc. They won't need to wake you up to get the key signal using a scanner and receiver, so they sure are not going to 'wake you up' for a code. Do you really think they will tie you to a chair a beat it out of you???????.......no, they will give up when it doesn't start and just try someone else's.
Example of the scanner thief's use here.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pffcngJJq0
Ironically, they turn up in a stolen S3.
Thats with a keyless car though isnt it, I agree the Ghost has it's uses in that situation. But with a normal key?Example of the scanner thief's use here.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pffcngJJq0
Ironically, they turn up in a stolen S3.
Edited by IJB1959 on Friday 1st December 10:12
Edited by CaptainMorgan on Friday 1st December 22:06
CaptainMorgan said:
Thats with a keyless car though isnt it, I agree the Ghost has it's uses in that situation. But with a normal key?
They can break into your house and nick the key but still won't be able to take the car. There is the risk that if they've already done that they may return to 'extract' the code from you in person...xjay1337 said:
Sounds like problem sorted then :-)
Yeah. Seems so. Not sure how I personally feel about the Ghost. I’d never want a tracker because I wouldn’t want the car back if it did go.A few friends that have Ghost have said it’s a pain and mostly always forget to input the code. Highly unlikely anyone would come back for a code if it wouldn’t start but wouldn’t that risk or them trashing the car out of frustration and being stuck with an insurance bill anyway.
ashleyman said:
Yeah. Seems so. Not sure how I personally feel about the Ghost. I’d never want a tracker because I wouldn’t want the car back if it did go.
A few friends that have Ghost have said it’s a pain and mostly always forget to input the code. Highly unlikely anyone would come back for a code if it wouldn’t start but wouldn’t that risk or them trashing the car out of frustration and being stuck with an insurance bill anyway.
I got used to mine in about a week. It also prevented my car being stolen after we were burgled and all they took were car keys.A few friends that have Ghost have said it’s a pain and mostly always forget to input the code. Highly unlikely anyone would come back for a code if it wouldn’t start but wouldn’t that risk or them trashing the car out of frustration and being stuck with an insurance bill anyway.
Make your own mind up as to how you feel about that - I already have.
PS, they just disappeared and didn't come looking for the code or trash the car.
silentbrown said:
They can break into your house and nick the key but still won't be able to take the car. There is the risk that if they've already done that they may return to 'extract' the code from you in person...
My original point was, having a ghost fitted is no better than putting the key under my mattress. CaptainMorgan said:
My original point was, having a ghost fitted is no better than putting the key under my mattress.
There's a few scenarios where it helps. - Carjacking - switch the engine off, leave keys and walk away from the car.
- ODB attacks (where thief uses the ODB port to bypass key security)
- Cloned keys (either an 'old' key is used for access (previous owner, ex-wife...) or someone who has temporary access to the car (garage, valet park) codes an additional key for the vehicle for later use.
eatontrifles said:
What if you’re out of the house and get broken into (they will look for the keys, trust me)? Or they come with a relay device?
Good point about looking for keys. I'd much rather they took the keys and didn't even cross the threshold than ransacked the place looking for them. Relay devices : Yes, but we were leaving keyless entry systems out of the equation for now
silentbrown said:
I'm bet good money that the Autowatch Ghost is actually one of these:
https://www.ampire.de/Security-Systems/Security-fo...
See in a video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3PsfElt0M
As you can see, it's bloody small, and it seems you can fit it anywhere in the vehicle that CANBus reaches (which is pretty much anywhere...)
How does it actually work? It will be able to snoop on messages sent by button-presses (eg steering wheel paddles to the gearbox) and interpret them as the instructions to 'disarm' itself. What's trickier is how it actually immobilizes the car... it might either act as a CANbus jammer when it detects the beginning of 'start the car' message, causing the command from car to ECU to be corrupted and ignored. Or, it could simply see the 'start' command and immediately issue a 'stop' command to cancel it.
The nature of CANbus means you can't disable it or bypass it without physically removing it - but once you know where it is it's probably a trivial job to take it out of circuit. So it's slightly 'security through obscurity'. The only 'flaw' I can see (unless, like for the Focus, their code has bugs...) is that installers are likely to pick just a handful of favourite places to install these.
I have spent quite some time trying to find mine out of curiosity (didn't see the install being done) and still have absolutely no idea where the thing is, so a thief is not going to know either. With mine it lets you start the car but locks (or rather disables the CANbus signal) the auto gearbox in park until the code is entered. If you don't use the Autowatch window stickers it is completely stealth and a thief won't know what he is dealing with. Apparently, if a REALLY determined thief happened to have a spare ECU it still won't start without the code, so any ECU OBD interference is pointless. Maybe one day some cleaver sod will invent something to bypass it, but for now I have no worries where it's parked.https://www.ampire.de/Security-Systems/Security-fo...
See in a video here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nB3PsfElt0M
As you can see, it's bloody small, and it seems you can fit it anywhere in the vehicle that CANBus reaches (which is pretty much anywhere...)
How does it actually work? It will be able to snoop on messages sent by button-presses (eg steering wheel paddles to the gearbox) and interpret them as the instructions to 'disarm' itself. What's trickier is how it actually immobilizes the car... it might either act as a CANbus jammer when it detects the beginning of 'start the car' message, causing the command from car to ECU to be corrupted and ignored. Or, it could simply see the 'start' command and immediately issue a 'stop' command to cancel it.
The nature of CANbus means you can't disable it or bypass it without physically removing it - but once you know where it is it's probably a trivial job to take it out of circuit. So it's slightly 'security through obscurity'. The only 'flaw' I can see (unless, like for the Focus, their code has bugs...) is that installers are likely to pick just a handful of favourite places to install these.
Wilksy288 said:
It may have been asked already, but what are they doing with all these stolen Audi's/VW's? are they stripping them for parts or exporting them? It isnt like these cars are limited editions etc.
I have read that either they are either:stolen and exported to order
stolen for a fast getaway job
stolen and stripped down for original parts to order and/or to be sold cheap on the likes of eBay, and this apparently being the most profitable reason.
CaptainMorgan said:
IJB1959 said:
Your key could be hacked just being out and about with it in your pocket, or scanned by locking/unlocking your car in a car park etc. They won't need to wake you up to get the key signal using a scanner and receiver, so they sure are not going to 'wake you up' for a code. Do you really think they will tie you to a chair a beat it out of you???????.......no, they will give up when it doesn't start and just try someone else's.
Example of the scanner thief's use here.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pffcngJJq0
Ironically, they turn up in a stolen S3.
Thats with a keyless car though isnt it, I agree the Ghost has it's uses in that situation. But with a normal key?Example of the scanner thief's use here.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pffcngJJq0
Ironically, they turn up in a stolen S3.
Edited by IJB1959 on Friday 1st December 10:12
Edited by CaptainMorgan on Friday 1st December 22:06
ashleyman said:
I think the numpty owner left it unlocked!silentbrown said:
There's a few scenarios where it helps.
The Carjacking is questionable, I cant see guys who are brazen enough to drag you out of your car happy to walk away and let you have it back when they realise it's immobilised. OBD theft I guess if you own a car thats susceptible to this it might be a good idea, cloned keys I'd expect most of us are sensible enough to look after our keys, sloppy care of them seems a bit stupid these days. - Carjacking - switch the engine off, leave keys and walk away from the car.
- ODB attacks (where thief uses the ODB port to bypass key security)
- Cloned keys (either an 'old' key is used for access (previous owner, ex-wife...) or someone who has temporary access to the car (garage, valet park) codes an additional key for the vehicle for later use.
The break in while out is the best case I've heard for the Ghost though, I haddnt thought of that.
IJB1959 said:
With a normal key it's a different scenario, but assuming this thread started as a keyless Audi S3 neat theft, the keyless debate started.
Fair enough, with a keyless motor I'd agree it's a no brainer to get fitted. I'm certainly tempted, I dont think it's the solution to everyones problems like is sometimes suggested, but it could certainly help when used with other devices. Does anyone know if it affects a cars warranty?
With a lot of these things it's a case of peace of mind. Ghost is a smart idea, and I can entirely see it's appeal.
CaptainMorgan said:
Does anyone know if it affects a cars warranty?
It doesn't reprogram the ECU so won't raise a TD1 flag or similar. But it has the potential to disrupt pretty much every system in the car if it goes wrong or has bugs, so if you've any serious electronic or ECU problem I'd consider getting it removed/disabled temporarily before warranty work.IJB1959 said:
I have spent quite some time trying to find mine out of curiosity (didn't see the install being done) and still have absolutely no idea where the thing is, so a thief is not going to know either.
The installer should know (and, probably should have told you!) because you won't be able to get it uninstalled otherwise. The Ampire manual has a sketch for the installer to mark the location.
I'd ask the location ASAP before the installer forgets.
Recently had my 8 month old 3dr S3 stolen. I live on a main road just south of Manchester. On street parking and it was just gone the next morning, and I have both keys, no smashed glass. Would love to know how it's been done, I keep on scanning the locals expecting to hear a story of it wrapped around a tree with a few dead miscreants (Am I allowed to say that?)
I count myself lucky after reading this thread, some people have it far, far worse. After reading it, I think you've confirmed that the attempted break in (Someone tried my back door three weeks previous), was indeed related which none of my family, friend or police thought was related.
I count myself lucky after reading this thread, some people have it far, far worse. After reading it, I think you've confirmed that the attempted break in (Someone tried my back door three weeks previous), was indeed related which none of my family, friend or police thought was related.
JLBowden said:
Recently had my 8 month old 3dr S3 stolen. I live on a main road just south of Manchester. On street parking and it was just gone the next morning, and I have both keys, no smashed glass. Would love to know how it's been done, I keep on scanning the locals expecting to hear a story of it wrapped around a tree with a few dead miscreants (Am I allowed to say that?)
I count myself lucky after reading this thread, some people have it far, far worse. After reading it, I think you've confirmed that the attempted break in (Someone tried my back door three weeks previous), was indeed related which none of my family, friend or police thought was related.
Sorry to hear that, but at least it just went with no unpleasantness by the sound of it. I count myself lucky after reading this thread, some people have it far, far worse. After reading it, I think you've confirmed that the attempted break in (Someone tried my back door three weeks previous), was indeed related which none of my family, friend or police thought was related.
Which area in Sth MCR ?
J4CKO said:
Sorry to hear that, but at least it just went with no unpleasantness by the sound of it.
Which area in Sth MCR ?
Stockport, I didn't think it stood out, but honestly before this I didn't think it was a car worth stealing to sell, and because it's 3dr didn't think it would be used for jobs. May have been followed, hence the attempt at getting in, don't like the thought of being watched but I did always leave keys downstairs anywayWhich area in Sth MCR ?
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