Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?
Poll: Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?
Total Members Polled: 461
Discussion
RobDickinson said:
The model 3 doesnt have an easily swappable battery, wont stop them filing patents tho 
The recent patents are for a battery swap device, not swappable batteries. The batteries in Teslas can be swapped as they stand now, and will be the same with the Model 3. It's just that rather than rolling out swap stations, Tesla is promoting the Supercharger network.The device in the patent is, in effect, an automated system to replace battery packs. I can see it being of more user the maintenance and service sectors than solely to keep batteries topped up en route
https://www.electrans.co.uk/new-specs-tesla-batter...
It seems this thread was started by a pro EV person attempting to make a point as an off-shoot of this thread title 'EVs, does everyone think they're great'
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 12:08
SimonYorkshire said:
It seems this thread was started by a pro EV person attempting to make a point as an off-shoot of this thread title 'EVs, does everyone think they're great'
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
But by that point, taxes and duty on fossil fuels for ICE vehicles will have risen massively to try and persuade the final few users to switch over. So EV drivers will me paying more that an present for fuel but less than those ICE drivers.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 12:08
SimonYorkshire said:
It seems this thread was started by a pro EV person attempting to make a point as an off-shoot of this thread title 'EVs, does everyone think they're great'
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Pistonheads works best for people who are grown up, you are behaving like an attention-seeking child.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 12:08
GT119 said:
SimonYorkshire said:
It seems this thread was started by a pro EV person attempting to make a point as an off-shoot of this thread title 'EVs, does everyone think they're great'
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Pistonheads works best for people who are grown up, you are behaving like an attention-seeking child.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 12:08
Hell of a cheek calling me childish, I'll let others read your attempts to dig up dirt on me on the other thread and decide for themselves who is childish - You and others don't like my raising anti EV points and have invented opportunities to have a dig at me both professionally and personally.
I don't see what I do (LPG conversion) taking over the world, it will always be a niche and is all the better for it, but you and others are saying there would be no problems if all vehicles become electric only and people's lifestyles wouldn't be affected negatively if they all had to replace their ice vehicle with an all electric vehicle. After all, you all say, average mileage is only 21 miles a day, people can charge their EVs on their drive overnight, etc, etc.
SimonYorkshire said:
On the other thread I suggested pro EV people could ask people on other threads if they would be happy to switch to an EV. The OP of this thread is on that thread and it seems started this thread to vaguely do what I suggested, except omitted to mention this would involve switching to a different car (pure EV) and a few other details. Then he, and you, and everyone else who is pro pure EV on that thread and aware of this thread forgot to mention this thread on the other thread where I made the suggestion.
Hell of a cheek calling me childish, I'll let others read your attempts to dig up dirt on me on the other thread and decide for themselves who is childish - You and others don't like my raising anti EV points and have invented opportunities to have a dig at me both professionally and personally.
I don't see what I do (LPG conversion) taking over the world, it will always be a niche and is all the better for it, but you and others are saying there would be no problems if all vehicles become electric only and people's lifestyles wouldn't be affected negatively if they all had to replace their ice vehicle with an all electric vehicle. After all, you all say, average mileage is only 21 miles a day, people can charge their EVs on their drive overnight, etc, etc.
Show me any post on either thread where anyone claims EVs will currently suit everyone. No one claimed that. Rather that they would suit the usage patterns of many car users.Hell of a cheek calling me childish, I'll let others read your attempts to dig up dirt on me on the other thread and decide for themselves who is childish - You and others don't like my raising anti EV points and have invented opportunities to have a dig at me both professionally and personally.
I don't see what I do (LPG conversion) taking over the world, it will always be a niche and is all the better for it, but you and others are saying there would be no problems if all vehicles become electric only and people's lifestyles wouldn't be affected negatively if they all had to replace their ice vehicle with an all electric vehicle. After all, you all say, average mileage is only 21 miles a day, people can charge their EVs on their drive overnight, etc, etc.
rscott said:
But by that point, taxes and duty on fossil fuels for ICE vehicles will have risen massively to try and persuade the final few users to switch over. So EV drivers will me paying more that an present for fuel but less than those ICE drivers.
I'm not sure. I think that when petrol eventually becomes the minority fuel it will naturally get more expensive and less readily available. The oil companies will still have the same infrastructure overheads but with much less demand to absorb the cost. By that time I would expect the government to have switched to road pricing to grab the money from the predominantly EV road users instead of fuel duty. There will likely still be some tax, probably VAT, on fossil fuels, but as these fossil fuel drivers will also be subject to the same new road pricing, I think the fuel duty will actually reduce or even go altogether.I think this is all still a long way in the future anyway. The infrastructure is all set up for fossil fuels, and it will take years, if not many decades, for everyone to switch away from fossil fuels to electricity. The oil companies aren't just going to roll over on this either.
thegreenhell said:
rscott said:
But by that point, taxes and duty on fossil fuels for ICE vehicles will have risen massively to try and persuade the final few users to switch over. So EV drivers will me paying more that an present for fuel but less than those ICE drivers.
I'm not sure. I think that when petrol eventually becomes the minority fuel it will naturally get more expensive and less readily available. The oil companies will still have the same infrastructure overheads but with much less demand to absorb the cost. By that time I would expect the government to have switched to road pricing to grab the money from the predominantly EV road users instead of fuel duty. There will likely still be some tax, probably VAT, on fossil fuels, but as these fossil fuel drivers will also be subject to the same new road pricing, I think the fuel duty will actually reduce or even go altogether.I think this is all still a long way in the future anyway. The infrastructure is all set up for fossil fuels, and it will take years, if not many decades, for everyone to switch away from fossil fuels to electricity. The oil companies aren't just going to roll over on this either.
Rscott, I thought on the other thread you agreed EVs would be good for ice vehicle users, how would this situation be good? Slightly off at a tangent, again I'll remind that current ice fuel power stations are maybe 40% more efficient than ice vehicle engines, so (remembering Tinrobot's point that I took issue with on the other thread) if ice engines in pure ice or hybrid vehicles increase in efficiency by that figure they become cheaper to run than a pure EV if government allow a flat playing field (same duty). Regardless of flat playing field, if ratio of EV vehicles to ice vehicles increases to some significant level duty has to be charged on electricity to charge them, because numbers of remaining ice vehicles isn't enough to make up for the shortfall in duty from EVs ---- Or can you calculate a sweet spot for duty on ice fuel (that could supplement lack of duty from electricity) that doesn't make all ice users immediately switch to EVs and then EVs have to fully cover fuel duty revenue?
What you really need to make EVs truly worthwhile is nuclear fussion power stations (not fission as we have now). But if you have fussion power stations that are safe and easy to produce you might not as well bother with EVs and having to upgrade the grid and producing heavy batteries, you just use the fussion generated electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, compress the hyrdrogen and run ice engines on hydrogen.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 22:01
SimonYorkshire said:
GT119 said:
SimonYorkshire said:
It seems this thread was started by a pro EV person attempting to make a point as an off-shoot of this thread title 'EVs, does everyone think they're great'
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Pistonheads works best for people who are grown up, you are behaving like an attention-seeking child.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
One of the points I make on the (linked / main EV) thread is that electricity to charge EVs will not remain free for ever. Government charge a lot of duty on ice fuel, if EV's replace ice vehicles duty will have to be charged on electricity to charge EVs or (worse / less fairly) the revenue will have to come from other taxes. Then you get the situation where you have to wait more than 45 minutes to charge an EV, which costs you nearly as much as to refuel an ice, and after waiting that 45 minutes your range is still much less than that of an ice, and then you have to wait more than 45 minutes for another recharge (or maybe all night if the charger isn't a supercharger).
Seems the OP of this thread forgot to tell the main (linked) thread about this thread's existence. I'm just making sure people on this thread know about the existence of the other thread.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 12:08
Hell of a cheek calling me childish, I'll let others read your attempts to dig up dirt on me on the other thread and decide for themselves who is childish - You and others don't like my raising anti EV points and have invented opportunities to have a dig at me both professionally and personally.
I don't see what I do (LPG conversion) taking over the world, it will always be a niche and is all the better for it, but you and others are saying there would be no problems if all vehicles become electric only and people's lifestyles wouldn't be affected negatively if they all had to replace their ice vehicle with an all electric vehicle. After all, you all say, average mileage is only 21 miles a day, people can charge their EVs on their drive overnight, etc, etc.
I have never dug up any dirt on you, I can't be bothered to be honest and have no interest in that sort of thing.
I have of course responded to some of your more interesting claims, sometimes seriously, and other times in jest when it's clear you can't be taken seriously.
Merc 450 said:
Why would somebody who likes electric vehicles be on PISTONheads they are the least PETROLhead car you can get, they are anti cars for people who don't like cars.
I can see the troll in that one - I shouldn't rise to it but I will. Who are you to say what a car enthusiast is? It's kind of a wide bunch.
I would say I am one - and I have an EV. Why? Well it perfectly fits our needs and is cheap to run. It means I can keep my big Legacy R, as well as my couple of track cars.
But you know what my dirty little secret is? I like our Leaf. It's quiet, well built and has adequate poke delivered in a delightfully linear way. I really do enjoy driving it.
Is it perfect? No, of course not. Would it suit everyone? Well no again, but quite frankly that's for them to decide.
I'm not sure why there is such an amount of spittle flying around on this subject to be honest.
Merc 450 said:
Why would somebody who likes electric vehicles be on PISTONheads they are the least PETROLhead car you can get, they are anti cars for people who don't like cars.
Because when PISTONheads.com was formed electric cars were rubbish and no one interested in cars would be interested.But times have changed, if your not interested in understanding more about a car you can go and buy right now with a simple click of mouse, use day to day to carry 5 adults, but that can out drag a 911 Turbo S and Ferrari 488, than I would argue you are the one with no real interest in cars
http://www.motortrend.com/news/worlds-greatest-dra...
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 24th September 17:23
gangzoom said:
Merc 450 said:
Why would somebody who likes electric vehicles be on PISTONheads they are the least PETROLhead car you can get, they are anti cars for people who don't like cars.
Because when PISTONheads.com was formed electric cars were rubbish and no one interested in cars would be interested.But times have changed, if your not interested in understanding more about a car you can go and buy right now with a simple click of mouse, use day to day to carry 5 adults, but that can out drag a 911 Turbo S and Ferrari 488, than I would argue you are the one with no real interest in cars
http://www.motortrend.com/news/worlds-greatest-dra...
Edited by gangzoom on Sunday 24th September 17:23
(there's no replacement for displacement) what i was saying was EV's do not have PISTONs
Merry said:
Merc 450 said:
Why would somebody who likes electric vehicles be on PISTONheads they are the least PETROLhead car you can get, they are anti cars for people who don't like cars.
I can see the troll in that one - I shouldn't rise to it but I will. Who are you to say what a car enthusiast is? It's kind of a wide bunch.
I would say I am one - and I have an EV. Why? Well it perfectly fits our needs and is cheap to run. It means I can keep my big Legacy R, as well as my couple of track cars.
But you know what my dirty little secret is? I like our Leaf. It's quiet, well built and has adequate poke delivered in a delightfully linear way. I really do enjoy driving it.
Is it perfect? No, of course not. Would it suit everyone? Well no again, but quite frankly that's for them to decide.
I'm not sure why there is such an amount of spittle flying around on this subject to be honest.
)Merc 450 said:
kambites said:
Each to their own I suppose.
Exactly, one of them electric thingys can beat a 707HP Dodge Challenger over a quarter mile but i know which one i would haveBut then I've never called myself a "petrolhead", I'm a car (and engineering and driving) enthusiast.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 24th September 20:01
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