Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?
Poll: Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?
Total Members Polled: 461
Discussion
kambites said:
Merc 450 said:
kambites said:
Each to their own I suppose.
Exactly, one of them electric thingys can beat a 707HP Dodge Challenger over a quarter mile but i know which one i would have
I love the Challenger LL cool J drives in NCIS Los AngelesMerc 450 said:
Why would somebody who likes electric vehicles be on PISTONheads they are the least PETROLhead car you can get, they are anti cars for people who don't like cars.
If you're thinking in terms of owning ONE car, maybe. But people who think in terms of only owning one car are eligible for a "not enthusiast enough" arguments also.InitialDave said:
If you're thinking in terms of owning ONE car, maybe. But people who think in terms of only owning one car are eligible for a "not enthusiast enough" arguments also.
Pretty good Pistonheads response 
I mean, what kind of scum of the earth pauper can only afford one car?! And how could they possibly be an enthusiast!? SimonYorkshire said:
What you really need to make EVs truly worthwhile is nuclear fussion power stations (not fission as we have now). But if you have fussion power stations that are safe and easy to produce you might not as well bother with EVs and having to upgrade the grid and producing heavy batteries, you just use the fussion generated electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, compress the hyrdrogen and run ice engines on hydrogen
In which case you would need ten times as many fusion plants as you would if you ran battery electric vehicles. Why would someone put up with paying ten times as much to fuel their vehicle?kambites said:
Merc 450 said:
kambites said:
Each to their own I suppose.
Exactly, one of them electric thingys can beat a 707HP Dodge Challenger over a quarter mile but i know which one i would haveBut then I've never called myself a "petrolhead", I'm a car (and engineering and driving) enthusiast.
Edited by kambites on Sunday 24th September 20:01
Its not always about how fast you can get from A to B but how you get there.
Even my mum understands that and she likes Decoupage, as you say each to their own lol.
Maybe its time for you to find a new hobby.
Westy Pre-Lit said:
If I ever got to the point of preferring the life sapping and soulless whine of an electric motor on spin cycle, to the Burble and aggressive roar of a Big Block V8 on full chat, I'd really think I'd need to have a good chat with myself. The very thought makes me shudder to be honest.
Its not always about how fast you can get from A to B but how you get there.
Even my mum understands that and she likes Decoupage, as you say each to their own lol.
Maybe its time for you to find a new hobby.
Hello! Welcome to 2017, what year have you travelled from?Its not always about how fast you can get from A to B but how you get there.
Even my mum understands that and she likes Decoupage, as you say each to their own lol.
Maybe its time for you to find a new hobby.
The problem is 99% of modern ICE cars have horrifically bland engines. I can see why someone might prefer a V8 to an electric motor (although personally I don't like cross-plane V8s), but a turbocharged three/four-pot? Give me the electric motor any day.
I'm certainly not going to be getting rid of my ICE powered sports car any time soon but as a replacement for our dull-but-worthy turbo four-pot family car I really see no down-sides and considerable advantages to an electric motor. Even compared to something like a lovely high-revving inline-six, I'd still prefer an EV for the type of use our family car gets simply because such a high proportion of it is on a cold engine and/or in stop-start traffic.
I will always appreciate classics and low-volume cars, but mainstream modern cars are almost universally so numb and boring that I just can't see them going to an electric drive-train as a loss.
I'm certainly not going to be getting rid of my ICE powered sports car any time soon but as a replacement for our dull-but-worthy turbo four-pot family car I really see no down-sides and considerable advantages to an electric motor. Even compared to something like a lovely high-revving inline-six, I'd still prefer an EV for the type of use our family car gets simply because such a high proportion of it is on a cold engine and/or in stop-start traffic.
I will always appreciate classics and low-volume cars, but mainstream modern cars are almost universally so numb and boring that I just can't see them going to an electric drive-train as a loss.
Edited by kambites on Monday 25th September 08:32
The cars I own and driving I do I would rather pay for my fuel. Many weekends for me a fun out in the kitcar/86 or Bike enjoying the roads.
I would rather be out of pocket than waste time waiting for 45 mins at a time. My bike only gets 80-90 miles until the fuel light comes on but in those miles they are fun. So worth it for me.
I would rather be out of pocket than waste time waiting for 45 mins at a time. My bike only gets 80-90 miles until the fuel light comes on but in those miles they are fun. So worth it for me.
I am totally in the same mould on this as Chris Harris. Who recently wrote something that could be applied to me. "My two favourite sports are test cricket and motor sport. ... I'm an old fart who doesn't like (some) change and likes the sound of engines." He then goes onto bemoan Formula E and comparing something whiny as fast as a Formula Ford to Kimi pinning it flat through Eau Rouge.
He has a point, I agree, yet even I can see that EVs currently have a place, and that may well increase in the future. Yes we may rubbish and decry some of the 'science' and politics driving this, but people need to be realistic and a bit more open minded.
He has a point, I agree, yet even I can see that EVs currently have a place, and that may well increase in the future. Yes we may rubbish and decry some of the 'science' and politics driving this, but people need to be realistic and a bit more open minded.
InitialDave said:
Rat_Fink_67 said:
Pretty good Pistonheads response I mean, what kind of scum of the earth pauper can only afford one car?! And how could they possibly be an enthusiast!?
I think my entire fleet is worth less than a lot of PH user's daily drivers! I mean, what kind of scum of the earth pauper can only afford one car?! And how could they possibly be an enthusiast!? 
GT119 said:
Westy Pre-Lit said:
If I ever got to the point of preferring the life sapping and soulless whine of an electric motor on spin cycle, to the Burble and aggressive roar of a Big Block V8 on full chat, I'd really think I'd need to have a good chat with myself. The very thought makes me shudder to be honest.
Its not always about how fast you can get from A to B but how you get there.
Even my mum understands that and she likes Decoupage, as you say each to their own lol.
Maybe its time for you to find a new hobby.
Hello! Welcome to 2017, what year have you travelled from?Its not always about how fast you can get from A to B but how you get there.
Even my mum understands that and she likes Decoupage, as you say each to their own lol.
Maybe its time for you to find a new hobby.
A little bit of my soul dies every time I see a sheep with their faked ripped and worn jeans, you can't imagine what plastic wishy washer cars do to me.......now how do I get back
To put another slant on this, its not about wasting your time, filling an ICE or EV up- but how about this view ?
The length of time you spend working, to be able to afford the fuel source to power your car of choice.
Assuming you need to work (and yr not a PH'r with a trust fund/sole share income/other nonsense)
you can safely assume 8000 miles PA is about £1200 in fuel- say a diesel at about 40 mpg.
That's a hell of a lot of work, or for most people a monthly salary, just to drive around.
versus 8000 miles in an EV, charged at home for £192.00p.
How many hours of your own time have you had to endure at work, just to drive to work
arguably you could chuck in servicing, running costs, road tax and insurance into the mix for devilment too.
The length of time you spend working, to be able to afford the fuel source to power your car of choice.
Assuming you need to work (and yr not a PH'r with a trust fund/sole share income/other nonsense)
you can safely assume 8000 miles PA is about £1200 in fuel- say a diesel at about 40 mpg.
That's a hell of a lot of work, or for most people a monthly salary, just to drive around.
versus 8000 miles in an EV, charged at home for £192.00p.
How many hours of your own time have you had to endure at work, just to drive to work
arguably you could chuck in servicing, running costs, road tax and insurance into the mix for devilment too.
SimonYorkshire said:
What you really need to make EVs truly worthwhile is nuclear fussion power stations (not fission as we have now). But if you have fussion power stations that are safe and easy to produce you might not as well bother with EVs and having to upgrade the grid and producing heavy batteries, you just use the fussion generated electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, compress the hyrdrogen and run ice engines on hydrogen.
Hydrogen has so many flaws even if you take its dire efficiency out of the equation. It leaks through everything and needs to be stored at 700 bar for a start. Its also very expensive to build a hydrogen drive-train, and it still needs batteries. There is a reason hardly any car manufacturers have looked at it.Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 22:01
austinsmirk said:
To put another slant on this, its not about wasting your time, filling an ICE or EV up- but how about this view ?
The length of time you spend working, to be able to afford the fuel source to power your car of choice.
Assuming you need to work (and yr not a PH'r with a trust fund/sole share income/other nonsense)
you can safely assume 8000 miles PA is about £1200 in fuel- say a diesel at about 40 mpg.
That's a hell of a lot of work, or for most people a monthly salary, just to drive around.
versus 8000 miles in an EV, charged at home for £192.00p.
How many hours of your own time have you had to endure at work, just to drive to work
arguably you could chuck in servicing, running costs, road tax and insurance into the mix for devilment too.
Forgetting the hours someone has to work to make the money to buy a new car...The length of time you spend working, to be able to afford the fuel source to power your car of choice.
Assuming you need to work (and yr not a PH'r with a trust fund/sole share income/other nonsense)
you can safely assume 8000 miles PA is about £1200 in fuel- say a diesel at about 40 mpg.
That's a hell of a lot of work, or for most people a monthly salary, just to drive around.
versus 8000 miles in an EV, charged at home for £192.00p.
How many hours of your own time have you had to endure at work, just to drive to work
arguably you could chuck in servicing, running costs, road tax and insurance into the mix for devilment too.
Current EVs have short range and long charge time issues due to battery and charger (grid) tech. Supposing someone buys a new car with current day batteries and batteries are a significant fraction of the vehicle's worth, how much does someone stand to immediately lose (in terms of vehicle value) as/if/when better batteries become available?
Government gets most of your £1200 yearly ice fuel bill in terms of duty and VAT - If government apply duty to electricity to charge EVs you might end up spending even more on fuel bills. Government needs the revenue from fuel duty, even if they don't apply duty to electricity it will have to come from somewhere so perhaps it will come from general taxation... But you still have to work as hard anyway. So far not even asked the question will taxes go up or down while £billions are being spent on electrical infrastructure upgrades..
98elise said:
SimonYorkshire said:
What you really need to make EVs truly worthwhile is nuclear fussion power stations (not fission as we have now). But if you have fussion power stations that are safe and easy to produce you might not as well bother with EVs and having to upgrade the grid and producing heavy batteries, you just use the fussion generated electricity to split water into hydrogen and oxygen, compress the hyrdrogen and run ice engines on hydrogen.
Hydrogen has so many flaws even if you take its dire efficiency out of the equation. It leaks through everything and needs to be stored at 700 bar for a start. Its also very expensive to build a hydrogen drive-train, and it still needs batteries. There is a reason hardly any car manufacturers have looked at it.Edited by SimonYorkshire on Saturday 23 September 22:01
Not much more of an issue storing H at 700 bar than storing CNG, CNG tanks are common. Not much more expensive to build a hydrogen drive train than any other ice drive train - I could convert any carb or port injected ice engine to run on H using most of the same components I'd use to convert a carb/port injection ice engine to LPG or CNG. Produce a H pressure reducer and I could convert most ice cars to run on H no problem. It wouldn't be as efficient as a diesel/petrol/LPG/EV car in terms of overall energy usage and it would be slower and have less range, but with fusion power at least energy efficiency wouldn't be a concern and battery EVs *effectively* have all the other limitations anyway. It's only emissions would be water, it could be refuelled quicker than an EV, we wouldn't have to upgrade the grid and it wouldn't need any more battery than a current ice. If it was cheaper to produce hydrogen we might find manufacturers producing H vehicles, but even if they didn't there could be an aftermarket scene converting current ice vehicles to H - If H was already available at forecourts there would probably already be an ice vehicle H conversion scene and I would be involved converting ice vehicles to H using most of the same parts I already use to convert ice engines to LPG with the exception of only 2 different spec components and different spec piping.
- Effectively* - Range and charge times are a direct negative against EVs, performance is an effective negative against EVs because if you drive in 'performance' fashion the hit on the batteries will reduce range vastly further. The only type of vehicle where it's likely that if you drive faster than average you might take longer to get to a destination than if you drive slower than average, due to charge time along the way.
Edited by SimonYorkshire on Wednesday 27th September 11:38
SimonYorkshire said:
Battery powered EVs have so many flaws too!
Here is a list of components that are not required in a BEV:Fuel tank
Fuel system
Engine
Gearbox
Prop shaft
Exhaust system / catalyst / DPF, etc.
Replaced by:
Battery
Power electronics
Motor/s (which may require a sealed fixed-ratio gearbox)
In the long term, when production volumes are mature, the BEV will be significantly more reliable, cheaper to manufacture and have much lower maintenance requirements.
The BEV also has regenerative braking capability built in which provides a step-change improvement in efficiency.
This has a knock-on benefit of vastly increasing brake disc/pad life.
As far as vehicle dynamics and safety go: 4WD/torque vectoring/traction and stability control are very easily implemented.
Then there is the question of performance, NVH, refinement, etc.
Again the BEV is inherently better.
From an engineering standpoint it is by far the most advanced and fit-for-purpose way to propel a vehicle.
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