Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free?

[pherlopolus]

SimonYorkshire said:

Did you just accuse me of selective editing? All I did was not include the last two paragraphs. You know, the paragraphs that imply battery cycle life could be increased from 2 years to 10 years (so currently is 2 years!) but there's a huge difference between what works on a small scale in the lad and one that's ready for mass market production. You don't think the last two paragraphs make current batteries look even worse? Potential for the better future batteries never materialising?

Er not quoting the whole article is selective editing... No one is disputing current compromise, but you missed the point that I have been making that you don't accept that things change.

[Merc 450]

I cannot believe this thread is still going, electric cars are crap end of. (apart from dodgems)

[Mr2Mike]

pherlopolus said:

Er not quoting the whole article is selective editing... No one is disputing current compromise, but you missed the point that I have been making that you don't accept that things change.

He left out a couple of small paragraphs that make the near future of EV development sound quite unpromising and uncertain. "Selective editing" is normally done for the benefit of the person doing the quoting rather than the other way around...

[SimonYorkshire]

Mr2Mike said:

pherlopolus said:

Er not quoting the whole article is selective editing... No one is disputing current compromise, but you missed the point that I have been making that you don't accept that things change.

He left out a couple of small paragraphs that make the near future of EV development sound quite unpromising and uncertain. "Selective editing" is normally done for the benefit of the person doing the quoting rather than the other way around...

Thanks Mr2Mike.

Yes Pherlopolus... Not that 'Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free' says anything about having to switch vehicles to an EV that will always take 45 minutes to fill up even on the fastest charger, or that most chargers will take much longer than 45 minutes, or that the 45 minutes charge would get you only a fraction of range of an ice car, or that the 45 minute charge wouldn't be free anyway... How do you rate the subject title of this thread in terms of 'selective'...

[The Mad Monk]

mcm87 said:

This has resulted in some locations having insufficient power available (South Mimms?) but they get around this by having battery storage onsite to act as a buffer to keep the full 120kw available for as many cars as possible.

How much has all that cost?

[Efbe]

The Mad Monk said:

mcm87 said:

This has resulted in some locations having insufficient power available (South Mimms?) but they get around this by having battery storage onsite to act as a buffer to keep the full 120kw available for as many cars as possible.

How much has all that cost?

how much does it cost to build a petrol station?

[pherlopolus]

SimonYorkshire said:

Thanks Mr2Mike.

Yes Pherlopolus... Not that 'Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free' says anything about having to switch vehicles to an EV that will always take 45 minutes to fill up even on the fastest charger, or that most chargers will take much longer than 45 minutes, or that the 45 minutes charge would get you only a fraction of range of an ice car, or that the 45 minute charge wouldn't be free anyway... How do you rate the subject title of this thread in terms of 'selective'...

Blah blah blah, choose a new song.

[SimonYorkshire]

pherlopolus said:

SimonYorkshire said:

Thanks Mr2Mike.

Yes Pherlopolus... Not that 'Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free' says anything about having to switch vehicles to an EV that will always take 45 minutes to fill up even on the fastest charger, or that most chargers will take much longer than 45 minutes, or that the 45 minutes charge would get you only a fraction of range of an ice car, or that the 45 minute charge wouldn't be free anyway... How do you rate the subject title of this thread in terms of 'selective'...

Blah blah blah, choose a new song.

We're each still singing the same song we've each been singing throughout this thread.. you choose a new song lol.

Efbe said:

The Mad Monk said:

mcm87 said:

This has resulted in some locations having insufficient power available (South Mimms?) but they get around this by having battery storage onsite to act as a buffer to keep the full 120kw available for as many cars as possible.

How much has all that cost?

how much does it cost to build a petrol station?

We don't need to build any petrol stations, ice cars have more range now than they've ever had. But it would cost less to build a petrol station than an EV charging station that needs a massive bulk storage battery and upgraded connection to the grid, and the petrol station would be able to refuel far more ice cars in a given time than the EV station could recharge EVs in the same time, so the petrol station doesn't have to be as big as the EV station.

[pherlopolus]

Voting conclusively says yes 👍

[Efbe]

SimonYorkshire said:

pherlopolus said:

SimonYorkshire said:

Thanks Mr2Mike.

Yes Pherlopolus... Not that 'Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free' says anything about having to switch vehicles to an EV that will always take 45 minutes to fill up even on the fastest charger, or that most chargers will take much longer than 45 minutes, or that the 45 minutes charge would get you only a fraction of range of an ice car, or that the 45 minute charge wouldn't be free anyway... How do you rate the subject title of this thread in terms of 'selective'...

Blah blah blah, choose a new song.

We're each still singing the same song we've each been singing throughout this thread.. you choose a new song lol.

Efbe said:

The Mad Monk said:

mcm87 said:

This has resulted in some locations having insufficient power available (South Mimms?) but they get around this by having battery storage onsite to act as a buffer to keep the full 120kw available for as many cars as possible.

How much has all that cost?

how much does it cost to build a petrol station?

We don't need to build any petrol stations, ice cars have more range now than they've ever had. But it would cost less to build a petrol station than an EV charging station that needs a massive bulk storage battery and upgraded connection to the grid, and the petrol station would be able to refuel far more ice cars in a given time than the EV station could recharge EVs in the same time, so the petrol station doesn't have to be as big as the EV station.

Ok, interesting, so I found on google it would cost roughly 2.3m to set up a medium sized petrol station: https://www.profitableventure.com/cost-start-a-gas...

how much would an EV one cost?

[pherlopolus]

The biggest cost would be land and tarmac!

[SimonYorkshire]

Efbe said:

SimonYorkshire said:

pherlopolus said:

SimonYorkshire said:

Thanks Mr2Mike.

Yes Pherlopolus... Not that 'Would you wait 45 minutes when filling up to get it free' says anything about having to switch vehicles to an EV that will always take 45 minutes to fill up even on the fastest charger, or that most chargers will take much longer than 45 minutes, or that the 45 minutes charge would get you only a fraction of range of an ice car, or that the 45 minute charge wouldn't be free anyway... How do you rate the subject title of this thread in terms of 'selective'...

Blah blah blah, choose a new song.

We're each still singing the same song we've each been singing throughout this thread.. you choose a new song lol.

Efbe said:

The Mad Monk said:

mcm87 said:

This has resulted in some locations having insufficient power available (South Mimms?) but they get around this by having battery storage onsite to act as a buffer to keep the full 120kw available for as many cars as possible.

How much has all that cost?

how much does it cost to build a petrol station?

We don't need to build any petrol stations, ice cars have more range now than they've ever had. But it would cost less to build a petrol station than an EV charging station that needs a massive bulk storage battery and upgraded connection to the grid, and the petrol station would be able to refuel far more ice cars in a given time than the EV station could recharge EVs in the same time, so the petrol station doesn't have to be as big as the EV station.

Ok, interesting, so I found on google it would cost roughly 2.3m to set up a medium sized petrol station: https://www.profitableventure.com/cost-start-a-gas...

how much would an EV one cost?

In equivalent terms, there are no medium sized EV charging stations... they're all tiny. If a petrol pump can refuel a car for say 400 miles range in 5 minutes, if a medium sized station has only 10 pumps that are all capable of doing that (and they all be of course) then the petrol station can refuel 120 cars an hour for combined range of 48000 miles in an hour. How much would an EV forecourt that could do the equivalent cost? lol. Since an EV with 400 mile range would have a decent sized battery, say 100kwh, to charge up one EV in 5 minutes would need a 1.2megawatt supply to each 'pump', and you'd need 10 pumps, so the site would need a 12megawatt supply. How much would that cost before you even spent a penny building the EV charging station itself?

Edited by SimonYorkshire on Tuesday 28th November 20:29

[RobDickinson]

Evs can charge at home overnight, millions of miles of charge for everyone when they wake up.

How much would it cost to put a petrol station in everyones homes?

[JoBlack]

RobDickinson said:

Evs can charge at home overnight, millions of miles of charge for everyone when they wake up.

How much would it cost to put a petrol station in everyones homes?

How much would it cost to build a nuclear reactor in everyones homes?

[kambites]

JoBlack said:

How much would it cost to build a nuclear reactor in everyones homes?

That's like asking how much it would cost to put an oil refinery in every petrol station.

[SimonYorkshire]

JoBlack said:

RobDickinson said:

Evs can charge at home overnight, millions of miles of charge for everyone when they wake up.

How much would it cost to put a petrol station in everyones homes?

How much would it cost to build a nuclear reactor in everyones homes?

Good comeback JoBlack ;-). How much would it cost RobDickinson to store his own nuclear waste, and would he want to? If not, Rob, where and who do you suggest stores it. Come on Rob you only need to keep it safe for 100000 years.

But to answer Rob's question.. For an LPG tank at home maybe a £2000. Or for a CNG compressor at home (which incidentally would allow an ice car to be run at lower cost per mile than an EV and totally legally) maybe £5000. But the CNG route would take just as long to recharge the ice car at home as an EV takes to charge at home... At least the LPG route would take only minutes to refuel at home and also takes minutes to refuel on forecourts etc.

[RobDickinson]

Yep its all stupid but thats simon for you.

Electricity is a solved problem with a national grid, in every home and also in every petrol station..

we're moving form a model of filling up off site (at petrol stations) all the time to filling up on rare occasions on long trips.

Who wouldnt want a full car every morning? who actually wants to stop for fuel?

For those mega road warriors EVs are currently not the best option, but in 5-10 years they will be fine, 200kWh and very fast charging ( 350kWh etc) will mean you can get about 500 miles range charged in 30min or so

Queue someone who drives 1000 miles a day without at breaks at all...

[SimonYorkshire]

kambites said:

JoBlack said:

How much would it cost to build a nuclear reactor in everyones homes?

That's like asking how much it would cost to put an oil refinery in every petrol station.

How so? Ok, and that's like saying there'd be a power station on every EV forecourt...

[RobDickinson]

SimonYorkshire said:

Good comeback JoBlack ;-). How much would it cost RobDickinson to store his own nuclear waste, and would he want to? If not, Rob, where and who do you suggest stores it. Come on Rob you only need to keep it safe for 100000 years.

But to answer Rob's question.. For an LPG tank at home maybe a £2000. Or for a CNG compressor at home (which incidentally would allow an ice car to be run at lower cost per mile than an EV and totally legally) maybe £5000. But the CNG route would take just as long to recharge the ice car at home as an EV takes to charge at home... At least the LPG route would take only minutes to refuel at home and also takes minutes to refuel on forecourts etc.

LPG why would I want that?

As for electricity, all mine is hydro, my country is 90% renewable, 100% nuclear free. So storing my radioactive waste is really really easy.

[SimonYorkshire]

RobDickinson said:

SimonYorkshire said:

Good comeback JoBlack ;-). How much would it cost RobDickinson to store his own nuclear waste, and would he want to? If not, Rob, where and who do you suggest stores it. Come on Rob you only need to keep it safe for 100000 years.

But to answer Rob's question.. For an LPG tank at home maybe a £2000. Or for a CNG compressor at home (which incidentally would allow an ice car to be run at lower cost per mile than an EV and totally legally) maybe £5000. But the CNG route would take just as long to recharge the ice car at home as an EV takes to charge at home... At least the LPG route would take only minutes to refuel at home and also takes minutes to refuel on forecourts etc.

LPG why would I want that?

As for electricity, all mine is hydro, my country is 90% renewable, 100% nuclear free. So storing my radioactive waste is really really easy.

Very good for your country. You know we don't have many hydro stations in the UK, Why would EVs be a good idea in the UK then?