Premium Brands - Have Others Caught Up?
Discussion
daemon said:
Kierkegaard said:
I've got a bit of a pet peeve about Audi. They don't seem to offer any real difference to VW or Skoda. It's cliched to say that but it's true. When you're talking about a 4 door 4 pot TDI FWD model there's little difference from the VAG group. Audi seem to have a hell of marketing influence.
I agree.I dont "get" Audis - well the run of the mill ones anyway. You seem to pay a huge premium for not much gain over a VW or Skoda.
If i'm honest i dont particular get SEAT either. I dont really see what they bring to the table that you cant either get with VW for not much more or similar from Skoda for similar pricing.
ZX10R NIN said:
When it comes to the Insignia you have to compare it to a Titanium Mondeo rather than a Vignale, I've driven a few of the normal Insignias & found them competent but still behind the Mondeo overall but when you compare the pricing the Insignia is great value.
I personally think that does the Mondeo a disservice. A better comparison would be to something like a Hyundai i40 IMHO.ZX10R NIN said:
When it comes to the Insignia you have to compare it to a Titanium Mondeo rather than a Vignale, I've driven a few of the normal Insignias & found them competent but still behind the Mondeo overall but when you compare the pricing the Insignia is great value.
Yes, absolutely. Then for the Vignale its down whether you're happy to spend maybe £5,000+ for what amounts to a trim level upgrade.The Mondy is the better car undoubtedly, but not proportionately to the price it commands over an Insignia - all IMHO of course.
ZX10R NIN said:
The other thing is that the big 3 depreciate just as badly as the mainstream cars just because there are so many of them on the road at which point the Premium paid over a Vignale/Insignia is irrelevant, at the time it was £1000-2000 to get a decent (but not match) specification car from the big 3.
Yes, thats a big part of it for me - its all very well paying for a premium product but they just drop in value like snow off a ditch anyway.daemon said:
Yes, absolutely. Then for the Vignale its down whether you're happy to spend maybe £5,000+ for what amounts to a trim level upgrade.
The Mondy is the better car undoubtedly, but not proportionately to the price it commands over an Insignia - all IMHO of course.
Yes it is a trim upgrade & the after sales service is a step up as well (but that might be across the board) as the "free" collection & courtesy car etc, but those materials the extras cost & those free valets you can have at any Vignale dealer cost & as we all know manufacturers give nothing away.The Mondy is the better car undoubtedly, but not proportionately to the price it commands over an Insignia - all IMHO of course.
The surprise for me is how well the normal Mondeo holds it's money in relation to the Insignia I don't see the Insignia as being 40% worse but the market seems to.
ZX10R NIN said:
daemon said:
Yes, absolutely. Then for the Vignale its down whether you're happy to spend maybe £5,000+ for what amounts to a trim level upgrade.
The Mondy is the better car undoubtedly, but not proportionately to the price it commands over an Insignia - all IMHO of course.
Yes it is a trim upgrade & the after sales service is a step up as well (but that might be across the board) as the "free" collection & courtesy car etc, but those materials the extras cost & those free valets you can have at any Vignale dealer cost & as we all know manufacturers give nothing away.The Mondy is the better car undoubtedly, but not proportionately to the price it commands over an Insignia - all IMHO of course.
The surprise for me is how well the normal Mondeo holds it's money in relation to the Insignia I don't see the Insignia as being 40% worse but the market seems to.
Sheepshanks said:
I think SEAT sells very well in Spain so I suppose they may as well sell it elsewhere. Used to be a lot cheaper to buy the SEAT version of the equivalent VW - daughter had an Ibiza that was £7500 and the same spec Polo was nudging £11K - but I don't think the same is true now. SEAT dealers seem generally acknowledged as being even worse that VW, and they're also quite think on the ground in some areas. Oddly one of Skoda's USPs is owners love the dealers.
I think seat is aimed at younger drivers who want a good looking "sporty" car, apart from the Alhambra, and then skoda are aimed mainly at the older generation who have kids and hobbies like mountain biking and things like that. They seem a bit more grown up. I recently sat in a few skodas and they where very plush, seat omit stuff like flocked door bins so stuff rattles around but the Octavia has them flocked, and even has a cup holder designed so you can open a bottle single handed while driving.turbobloke said:
I was still in employment during the early E36 years and went from new Cavalier and Mondeo company cars (2 years at a time) that were chosen for me to a nearly new E36 3-series in self-employment which naturally I got to choose.
The improvement in every area was striking, from the interior to mechanicals and the quality of the driving experience.
I only had one e36, it was an M3 (an early one - 3.0 coupe). Couldn’t disagree more. The dash board was a dogs dinner - it was years ago and I still laugh at the airbag door and the glovebox.The improvement in every area was striking, from the interior to mechanicals and the quality of the driving experience.
Mechanically it was pretty sound and I liked the seats.
When I've been a passenger in a current Kia or Hyundai I'm seriously impressed by the current design and quality of the materials. Sure it's not 100% Audi-esque but at half the price it's at good 95+% there and continuing to improve. Get in a poverty spec A2/3/4 or 1/3 series and in comparison it's baaaaad.
Hungrymc said:
turbobloke said:
I was still in employment during the early E36 years and went from new Cavalier and Mondeo company cars (2 years at a time) that were chosen for me to a nearly new E36 3-series in self-employment which naturally I got to choose.
The improvement in every area was striking, from the interior to mechanicals and the quality of the driving experience.
I only had one e36, it was an M3 (an early one - 3.0 coupe). Couldn’t disagree more. The dash board was a dogs dinner - it was years ago and I still laugh at the airbag door and the glovebox.The improvement in every area was striking, from the interior to mechanicals and the quality of the driving experience.
Mechanically it was pretty sound and I liked the seats.
Back to the point. Go sit in a VW or Alfa or Honda... then into an Audi, Merc, BMW. They are still a level ahead both in materials and ergonomics. And I say that as someone that has just bought an Alfa having owned BMWs for 10yrs+!
[/quote]
Alfa, woah... they have great interiors, which model are you talking about? vs which bmw?
I remember back in the '80's, having a Merc meant you were some big shot and things like Porsches were for people who were filthy rich. I think it was around 2000 or so when VW - a previously run of the mill company, started to rip pages out of Audi's interior design handbook. Suddenly, you had premium quality at a reasonable price. The only differences were the powertrain and driven wheels.
Around the same sort of time, finance became popular and cars were designed to be replaced every 3 years or so. As a result, every Tom, Dick and Harry could afford a premium car and their novelty wore off. Now they're just another car company.
Around the same sort of time, finance became popular and cars were designed to be replaced every 3 years or so. As a result, every Tom, Dick and Harry could afford a premium car and their novelty wore off. Now they're just another car company.
I can't say much about the lower spec. BMW's compared with say, a new Mondeo as I don not have much experience of either but I have a 2016 BMW M4 and my wife has a 2016 Mercedes C220D Sport Premium Plus (and breathe!), now I know they are at opposite ends of the price spectrum in their respective ranges and I don't know if Mercedes up their game with regards to interior quality for a C63 AMG for example, but the wife's Merc interior is horrible and plasticky and has been sent back several times to have rattles sorted out. And the 'idrive' interface (whatever Merc call it) is complete sh!te and totally counter-intuitive!.
The interior of the M4 is a much nicer place to be and with nicer surfaces to touch - albeit that I did pay extra for full leather, Saying that, it still doesn't feel like its as well screwed together as older BMW's, my E28 M5 has 175k miles on the clock now and still feels solid, I very much doubt the same will be true of the M4 when it gets to that mileage.
The interior of the M4 is a much nicer place to be and with nicer surfaces to touch - albeit that I did pay extra for full leather, Saying that, it still doesn't feel like its as well screwed together as older BMW's, my E28 M5 has 175k miles on the clock now and still feels solid, I very much doubt the same will be true of the M4 when it gets to that mileage.
Think I would agree with that... I've just reluctantly px'd and older A4 avant quattro sport - built like a tank, thick metal body panels and super reliable from 40k to 120k for a newish top spec Grand Picasso. Whilst considering options I always knew that going Citroen route would probably give me a car built of tin foil thin metal and loads of plastic panels. However by comparison in the last week I had the misfortune to have a VW Touran foisted upon my by a accident management company and noticed a bland interior basically shared from a any VW / Audi which didn't seem particularly adapted to suit the need of a family. PLUS, to my surprise the thin metal body panels and build quality of the VW felt very similar to the Citroen. My view here: Citroen have been getting better quickly and quietly and the established premium marques have become increasingly reliant on branding differentiators rather than genuine product superiority. I think I'm about to become a Citroen geek for a while! PS: also looking out for a old classic DS non runner or without an engine - for a project!
Ares said:
Got a lift in a Ford Edge Vignale.
£43k and if that is Ford trying to enter the premium market against the Merc/BMW/Audi then they are delusional. Staggered to think someone would chose one at that price point.
Polish/Turd etc
My brother in law absolutely hates Ford's(I love them), and I was really shocked when he said to me he really likes these, I'd like a nosey around one to see what they're like. £43k and if that is Ford trying to enter the premium market against the Merc/BMW/Audi then they are delusional. Staggered to think someone would chose one at that price point.
Polish/Turd etc
cerb4.5lee said:
Ares said:
Got a lift in a Ford Edge Vignale.
£43k and if that is Ford trying to enter the premium market against the Merc/BMW/Audi then they are delusional. Staggered to think someone would chose one at that price point.
Polish/Turd etc
My brother in law absolutely hates Ford's(I love them), and I was really shocked when he said to me he really likes these, I'd like a nosey around one to see what they're like. £43k and if that is Ford trying to enter the premium market against the Merc/BMW/Audi then they are delusional. Staggered to think someone would chose one at that price point.
Polish/Turd etc
Ares said:
Efbe said:
Alfa, woah... they have great interiors, which model are you talking about? vs which bmw?
The Giulia QV. The interior IS great and style wise punches with the best, but some of the materials are behind the Germans.Edited by Ares on Tuesday 26th September 09:18
(if these are the right models)
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