Premium Brands - Have Others Caught Up?
Discussion
Deerfoot said:
I bought my old Accord after trying a 3 series, C Class and A4, the Honda interior was absolutely solid and was still free of rattles and squeaks when it went with 100,000 miles on it.
You're going back years though - of course they haven't sold Accord here for some time. We've had a few Honda Jazz in the family and you can really see how they've cut corners as time has moved on. The old people hate the latest version.Looked at HR-V that a family member had as a courtesy car a few weeks ago and it was just awful, both quality and design.
Honda seems to do OK in the US, but they're seen as cheap cars there. In the UK they've completely lost the plot.
Ares said:
Thats Volvos calling card. Plush interiors and loads of tech....not the actual drive. BMW are the opposite end of the drive spectrum, as, increasingly, are Mercedes.
The drive of a BMW is no where near as enjoyable as it was 15 years ago and neither are the roads. And it seems hypocritical to say BMW offers the best driving experience of their sectors when they are fitted with 2ltr diesels. It's also a shame they no longer offer their 3ltr straight 6 NA engines as well. They were perfect. But anyway this is a thread of interiors. BMW is only a premium brand in the UK and USA because it's marketed that way. In Germany it's just about as premium as buying a Ford would be in the UK.
Top end Audis and Mercedes are the premium brands over there. The boss will,be in one these, the middle manager will be in a 5 or 7 series and the shop floor in a bottom feeding 1-4 series. I think in terms of build quality the upmarket Mercedes, Hondas and Audis are a way ahead of BMW. If you care about cool then it has to be Merc or Audi but if you want that level of quality but cool is less important look at the high end Hondas.Toyota make some very nice motors but they are a bit grandad, except the GT86 which looks nice but grandad and his zimmer frame could probably catch it.
Top end Audis and Mercedes are the premium brands over there. The boss will,be in one these, the middle manager will be in a 5 or 7 series and the shop floor in a bottom feeding 1-4 series. I think in terms of build quality the upmarket Mercedes, Hondas and Audis are a way ahead of BMW. If you care about cool then it has to be Merc or Audi but if you want that level of quality but cool is less important look at the high end Hondas.Toyota make some very nice motors but they are a bit grandad, except the GT86 which looks nice but grandad and his zimmer frame could probably catch it.
Trif said:
The drive of a BMW is no where near as enjoyable as it was 15 years ago and neither are the roads. And it seems hypocritical to say BMW offers the best driving experience of their sectors when they are fitted with 2ltr diesels. It's also a shame they no longer offer their 3ltr straight 6 NA engines as well. They were perfect. But anyway this is a thread of interiors.
How are the roads BMW's problem? I sort of agree that BMW still offer a better driving experience than some other manufacturers, but very few people actually care about that most only care about what tech it has, boot space to carry out more crap, MPG and how much a month on lease.
As for the 2 litre diesel comment, then they are only following customer demand and reacting to various legislative requirements. The only reason 3 litre straight 6's are not offered is purely from a keeping up with the market reason nothing more, nothing less. The main advantage something like the M140/240/340 offer is similar levels of performance in comparison with say the A45 and similar low end Merc's, if anything blame the consumer demanding more of everything in a new generation.
GR_TVR said:
I do think Audi and Mercedes (particularly Audi's new models) are winning the interior game at the moment - they feel a cut above BMW in that department and definitely have that premium feel.
If you're spending good money on a larger car then Volvo has them all beat in my opinion - their V90/S90/XC90 interior is fabulous, it looks great, feels well built and the seats and stereo system are top notch
FN2TypeR said:
GR_TVR said:
I do think Audi and Mercedes (particularly Audi's new models) are winning the interior game at the moment - they feel a cut above BMW in that department and definitely have that premium feel.
If you're spending good money on a larger car then Volvo has them all beat in my opinion - their V90/S90/XC90 interior is fabulous, it looks great, feels well built and the seats and stereo system are top notch'Premium' - it's pretty much a state of mind. (Brought to you by years of clever marketing).
The premium and the non-premium product could be nigh on identical in quality and performance, but until the marketing fails, the makes that are currently seen as premium will continue to be seen that way.
The premium and the non-premium product could be nigh on identical in quality and performance, but until the marketing fails, the makes that are currently seen as premium will continue to be seen that way.
jhonn said:
'Premium' - it's pretty much a state of mind. (Brought to you by years of clever marketing).
The premium and the non-premium product could be nigh on identical in quality and performance, but until the marketing fails, the makes that are currently seen as premium will continue to be seen that way.
I disagree, all brands have premium marketing. (Skoda/Brad Wiggins?).The premium and the non-premium product could be nigh on identical in quality and performance, but until the marketing fails, the makes that are currently seen as premium will continue to be seen that way.
It's when you sit inside, and even more so drive away that the difference is there.
Ninja59 said:
How are the roads BMW's problem?
I sort of agree that BMW still offer a better driving experience than some other manufacturers, but very few people actually care about that most only care about what tech it has, boot space to carry out more crap, MPG and how much a month on lease.
As for the 2 litre diesel comment, then they are only following customer demand and reacting to various legislative requirements. The only reason 3 litre straight 6's are not offered is purely from a keeping up with the market reason nothing more, nothing less. The main advantage something like the M140/240/340 offer is similar levels of performance in comparison with say the A45 and similar low end Merc's, if anything blame the consumer demanding more of everything in a new generation.
They aren't but BMW drivers have to suffer them all the same. But what I am saying is buying a 118D in the south east for its driving experience is pointless.I sort of agree that BMW still offer a better driving experience than some other manufacturers, but very few people actually care about that most only care about what tech it has, boot space to carry out more crap, MPG and how much a month on lease.
As for the 2 litre diesel comment, then they are only following customer demand and reacting to various legislative requirements. The only reason 3 litre straight 6's are not offered is purely from a keeping up with the market reason nothing more, nothing less. The main advantage something like the M140/240/340 offer is similar levels of performance in comparison with say the A45 and similar low end Merc's, if anything blame the consumer demanding more of everything in a new generation.
Trif said:
Ninja59 said:
How are the roads BMW's problem?
I sort of agree that BMW still offer a better driving experience than some other manufacturers, but very few people actually care about that most only care about what tech it has, boot space to carry out more crap, MPG and how much a month on lease.
As for the 2 litre diesel comment, then they are only following customer demand and reacting to various legislative requirements. The only reason 3 litre straight 6's are not offered is purely from a keeping up with the market reason nothing more, nothing less. The main advantage something like the M140/240/340 offer is similar levels of performance in comparison with say the A45 and similar low end Merc's, if anything blame the consumer demanding more of everything in a new generation.
They aren't but BMW drivers have to suffer them all the same. But what I am saying is buying a 118D in the south east for its driving experience is pointless.I sort of agree that BMW still offer a better driving experience than some other manufacturers, but very few people actually care about that most only care about what tech it has, boot space to carry out more crap, MPG and how much a month on lease.
As for the 2 litre diesel comment, then they are only following customer demand and reacting to various legislative requirements. The only reason 3 litre straight 6's are not offered is purely from a keeping up with the market reason nothing more, nothing less. The main advantage something like the M140/240/340 offer is similar levels of performance in comparison with say the A45 and similar low end Merc's, if anything blame the consumer demanding more of everything in a new generation.
And the 118d in the South East is as different (and more dynamic) to drive compared to a similarly power Audi A3 as it is anywhere.
FN2TypeR said:
If you're spending good money on a larger car then Volvo has them all beat in my opinion - their V90/S90/XC90 interior is fabulous, it looks great, feels well built and the seats and stereo system are top notch
Judged by the number of leather issues Volvo has with the XC90 I would not be so certain! As for sensus there have and continue a number of problems with displays flickering and going blank for a short time....One of the reasons I guided my parents (on their 3rd Volvo to buy a V60).
it really depend on the model to be honest
the interior materials of my 320d GT is definitely better than my V60, better than my Octavia, better than my wife Civic, better than my old IS200,
but the Optima i rent, is on the same standard of my BMW,
the E-class I rent push the fight to another level, so as 5 series and so on
the interior materials of my 320d GT is definitely better than my V60, better than my Octavia, better than my wife Civic, better than my old IS200,
but the Optima i rent, is on the same standard of my BMW,
the E-class I rent push the fight to another level, so as 5 series and so on
Trif said:
They aren't but BMW drivers have to suffer them all the same. But what I am saying is buying a 118D in the south east for its driving experience is pointless.
To be fair some might laugh, but when the 6 was in I had a 218i, had a barrel of fun driving a manual 3 cylinder petrol. Last week had the same engine in a Mini and hated it. Sometimes even the most mundane car can be fun, in the right size and gearbox, some might just need to try a different commute if possible...(and I live and commute in the SE). Granted the CDV was annoying, but these are all minor points.
Flipside I will jump tonight back in the 6 and hustle down the same road, and just laugh at a barge in sport mode (even as a diesel).
Maybe I just look at the positives in many of the cars I drive...even if they are just a small car there can be a number of rewarding things (unfortunately the Mini I struggled somewhat with the cabin creaking even in a straight line and the disorganised mess of controls).
Ares said:
Deerfoot said:
Lean forward, adjust knob, lean back and assess, repeat until satisfactory...
Or lift lever, mode to desired position, release lever. Simple(r) 
I get it, you think it's great, I didn't.
Sheepshanks said:
Deerfoot said:
I bought my old Accord after trying a 3 series, C Class and A4, the Honda interior was absolutely solid and was still free of rattles and squeaks when it went with 100,000 miles on it.
You're going back years though - of course they haven't sold Accord here for some time. Ares said:
It's when you sit inside, and even more so drive away that the difference is there.
Can you give an example? F'r instance - by what measures is a current Audi A4 saloon more premium than a similarly specc'd Vauxhall Insignia or Ford Mondeo?
(Genuine question - I haven't driven the Vauxhall or Ford lately)
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