RE: Shed of the Week: MG ZT

RE: Shed of the Week: MG ZT

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Discussion

iSore

3,986 posts

83 months

Sunday 24th September 2017
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
Sort of - but rubber bands to drive the camshafts on the V6. laugh A BMW M54 straight 6 with a cam-chain and RWD seems like a much better idea IMO!

The N42 may have been a BMW weak point, but is it really any more dismal that a poxy K Series hand grenade?

As for rust my E46 has now had it's 15th birthday and is still going strong (yet my P6 Rover had rotted to a wreck before it was 10 years old). biglaugh

Move over Rover. laugh
What's wrong with cambelts?

M54 is a good engine but not without fault.

N42 is probably on a par with crapness with the K Series. Nothing leaks oil more than an N Series engine. Vanos units, Vanos solenoids, timing chain, chain guides, crank sensor, VVT motor, Valvetronic lift sensor, bore wear. And oil leaks, everywhere.

P6 Rover? That's about 1000 years old and BMW E9 Coupes rusted far, far worse. You can't seriously compare a car from 1963 with one from the 2000's! laugh

Most of what Rover built was junk (800, 200, 25, etc etc) but the earlier Cowley built 75 was a good car.

sjc

10,613 posts

209 months

Sunday 24th September 2017
quotequote all
rtz62 said:
My friend and I have bought and sold a number of these in the past 3yrs.
I'll agree with the comments on the handling, it being so much better than I'd expected from an MG Rover group bolide.
Likewise the VIS issue, although the only one we bought that exhibited the issue was quickly fixed by removing the old unit and replacing it with a salvaged, and perfectly good one.
The worst thing for me was the build quality. In fact those two words don't belong together, every single car we had had more creaks, rattles and groans than Mrs Shed when she attempts to pour her size 28 frame into a size 20 body stocking.
Every piece of the interior felt like it had been built down to a price, and then that price had been cut by 50% again. Switchgear felt like it would snap clean off, centre console panels felt like they had been assembled by an under-enthusiastic 11 year old who had asked for an Airfix Lancaster bomber and got a Revell Fairy Swordfish.
The door trim panels all seemed to want to deposit themselves on unwitting passengers, although that was perhaps a corollary of hem being removed by previous owners in an attempt to cure electric window / central locking maladies and the trim clips having snapped off.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but didn't the Germans vote the ZT as one of the best looking cars ever? Bet they never rode in one before they voted...
One can only wonder on how the car could have, nay, should have been if time and money had been ploughed into raising the quality of the finished product to BMW/Audi standards rather than that of a Moskvich.
And yes, I bought a V8 and was disappointed in that too. Lazy power, very lazy in fact, with the all-pervading poor build quality to remind you that this was an act of desperation by the guys running the company at that time.
Must have all been facelift examples?
And yes, the V8 was underdeveloped, but a decent car in the circumstances.

Alex P

170 posts

67 months

Thursday 28th September 2017
quotequote all
sjc said:
rtz62 said:
My friend and I have bought and sold a number of these in the past 3yrs.
I'll agree with the comments on the handling, it being so much better than I'd expected from an MG Rover group bolide.
Likewise the VIS issue, although the only one we bought that exhibited the issue was quickly fixed by removing the old unit and replacing it with a salvaged, and perfectly good one.
The worst thing for me was the build quality. In fact those two words don't belong together, every single car we had had more creaks, rattles and groans than Mrs Shed when she attempts to pour her size 28 frame into a size 20 body stocking.
Every piece of the interior felt like it had been built down to a price, and then that price had been cut by 50% again. Switchgear felt like it would snap clean off, centre console panels felt like they had been assembled by an under-enthusiastic 11 year old who had asked for an Airfix Lancaster bomber and got a Revell Fairy Swordfish.
The door trim panels all seemed to want to deposit themselves on unwitting passengers, although that was perhaps a corollary of hem being removed by previous owners in an attempt to cure electric window / central locking maladies and the trim clips having snapped off.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but didn't the Germans vote the ZT as one of the best looking cars ever? Bet they never rode in one before they voted...
One can only wonder on how the car could have, nay, should have been if time and money had been ploughed into raising the quality of the finished product to BMW/Audi standards rather than that of a Moskvich.
And yes, I bought a V8 and was disappointed in that too. Lazy power, very lazy in fact, with the all-pervading poor build quality to remind you that this was an act of desperation by the guys running the company at that time.
Must have all been facelift examples?
And yes, the V8 was underdeveloped, but a decent car in the circumstances.
Interesting. It is possible that your recently purchased (10+ year old) cars were from the later period, when project drive was in full swing to reduce cost per unit. However, I can confidently say that earlier 75s/ZTs were easily the equal in terms of build quality of anything of a similar price that came out of Germany at the time. I will say that I drove a 2004 facelift diesel 75 that was much less refined and special than an early V6 - I largely put that down to the clattering BMW Diesel engine more than anything else though.

What does get my goat is when people claim that German cars are some panacea of build quality and reliability. Indeed people often confuse the two terms, though they are related. My 8 years in the motor trade (2003 - 2011) taught me that German cars may appear solid in terms of bodywork, but they don't always age well and they can be very unreliable as they age. Indeed per car sold, we had more serious problems with German manufacturers' cars than any other. Faults included BMW E46s and later 5 series with engine failures, Audi A4 and an A6 all road that both gave so many problems (engine/drivetrain/suspension) that we had to trade the owners back out of the cars. An RS6 that we were told not to drive in case the gearbox imploded. Cars equipped with CVT gearboxes that no Audi dealer would underwrite because they were so unreliable. Like all VAG group cars Audis also suffered from the plastic paint peeling off everything inside + a range of creaks and rattles. The main issue with Mercedes (other than plasticky dashboards on early 2000 cars) was rust and having to get it rectified-otherwise they seemed pretty good. Many Audis and BMWs suffered other problems that soon added up because of the cost of spare parts (£700 for a 5 series headlamp because an angle-eye had failed springs to mind). These were not high mileage multi-owner cars, but 1 - 2 owner, 4 -7 year old cars with FDSH and average or less mileage for their age. I think in the end we decided to trade most German stuff on and stick with the Japanese (our brands) or more 'humdrum' stuff like Fords and Vauxhalls that were more reliable and cheaper to fix. I think even French cars gave fewer problems, though later French cars did give issues with poor quality electronics.




Edited by Alex P on Thursday 28th September 14:45


Edited by Alex P on Thursday 28th September 14:51

J4CKO

26,591 posts

139 months

Thursday 28th September 2017
quotequote all
sjc said:
rtz62 said:
My friend and I have bought and sold a number of these in the past 3yrs.
I'll agree with the comments on the handling, it being so much better than I'd expected from an MG Rover group bolide.
Likewise the VIS issue, although the only one we bought that exhibited the issue was quickly fixed by removing the old unit and replacing it with a salvaged, and perfectly good one.
The worst thing for me was the build quality. In fact those two words don't belong together, every single car we had had more creaks, rattles and groans than Mrs Shed when she attempts to pour her size 28 frame into a size 20 body stocking.
Every piece of the interior felt like it had been built down to a price, and then that price had been cut by 50% again. Switchgear felt like it would snap clean off, centre console panels felt like they had been assembled by an under-enthusiastic 11 year old who had asked for an Airfix Lancaster bomber and got a Revell Fairy Swordfish.
The door trim panels all seemed to want to deposit themselves on unwitting passengers, although that was perhaps a corollary of hem being removed by previous owners in an attempt to cure electric window / central locking maladies and the trim clips having snapped off.
I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but didn't the Germans vote the ZT as one of the best looking cars ever? Bet they never rode in one before they voted...
One can only wonder on how the car could have, nay, should have been if time and money had been ploughed into raising the quality of the finished product to BMW/Audi standards rather than that of a Moskvich.
And yes, I bought a V8 and was disappointed in that too. Lazy power, very lazy in fact, with the all-pervading poor build quality to remind you that this was an act of desperation by the guys running the company at that time.
Must have all been facelift examples?
And yes, the V8 was underdeveloped, but a decent car in the circumstances.
Apparently its the pre-facelifts that are in demand in MGR circles my dad told me the other day, better looking and better built, lots of cost cutting went on, not the car it was when launched.

JoshMay

62 posts

47 months

Friday 29th September 2017
quotequote all
Turbobanana said:
So, Shed has £500 more to spend and now he’s gone all sensible. Dullest SOTW write-up for a long time.

Car looks alright though. Always fancied an estate myself.
'Dullest SOTW write-up for a long time' / 'Always fancied an estate myself'?!?!? Coz a Rover estate wouldn't be dull would it mate?
PARTRIDGE ALERT! (Alan, not country-set!)

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Dinant14

2 posts

17 months

Wednesday 4th October 2017
quotequote all
JoshMay said:
'Dullest SOTW write-up for a long time' / 'Always fancied an estate myself'?!?!? Coz a Rover estate wouldn't be dull would it mate?
PARTRIDGE ALERT! (Alan, not country-set!)
Yeah, they're dull as dishwater...... rubbish, poorly made, slow, ugly...... keep telling people that... Seriously! More for us that know the truth at reasonable prices biggrin








Rammy76

1,033 posts

122 months

Thursday 5th October 2017
quotequote all
Dinant14 said:
JoshMay said:
'Dullest SOTW write-up for a long time' / 'Always fancied an estate myself'?!?!? Coz a Rover estate wouldn't be dull would it mate?
PARTRIDGE ALERT! (Alan, not country-set!)
Yeah, they're dull as dishwater...... rubbish, poorly made, slow, ugly...... keep telling people that... Seriously! More for us that know the truth at reasonable prices biggrin






You should have bought a BMW estate, they are obviously a lot more interesting and reliablerofl

Mr Tidy

7,608 posts

66 months

Thursday 5th October 2017
quotequote all
iSore said:
What's wrong with cambelts?
Nothing at all if you like the idea of them breaking and causing all sorts of mechanical mayhem - or having to spend sh*tloads getting them replaced to avoid that scenario! laugh

ruprechtmonkeyboy

363 posts

26 months

Thursday 5th October 2017
quotequote all
J4CKO said:
Apparently its the pre-facelifts that are in demand in MGR circles my dad told me the other day, better looking and better built, lots of cost cutting went on, not the car it was when launched.
Not sure if any of them are actually 'in demand'. They aren't exactly appreciating classics.

Dinant14

2 posts

17 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Not sure if any of them are actually 'in demand'. They aren't exactly appreciating classics.
biglaugh

Aren't they?

The car on this SOTW probably would have sold for £400-£500 in 2012

Good ones 5 years ago were going for £400-£800, now they'll set you back £1300-£2500.... and a really nice example £4000+
An entry level V8 that needs a bit of work is now 4k min and a good one 6-10k.

Sounds like they're appreciating to me spin

dai1983

1,672 posts

88 months

Friday 6th October 2017
quotequote all
Mr Tidy said:
Nothing at all if you like the idea of them breaking and causing all sorts of mechanical mayhem - or having to spend sh*tloads getting them replaced to avoid that scenario! laugh
Good job BMW use camchains so you avoid the unexpected cost of one breaking or needing replacement due to them rattling like fk and BMW not wanting to know.

They even changed the design so the chain is in the back of the engine. It's a good job none of the chains break or rattle because it's an engine out job that BMW would probably charge you a minimum of £2k.

AdriaanB

150 posts

67 months

Monday 30th October 2017
quotequote all
As a quick update: in the mean time we've covered over 1,200 miles with our ZT, after buying it from a chap for 600 quid cash with no service history - actually 599.80 given he left 20p in the glove box. Oh and it came with a massive orange subwoofer - does give some oomph when playing Paul Simonsmile

Car thus far has been really good - it's very comfy and practically rattle-free. It did need some love - nobody seems to have unplugged any of the drains, a rear tyre was punctured, and the radiator needed a good flush (as well as the heating matrix). Next is giving it new, proper oil.

As for driving, when keeping the revs up above 3.5k, the v6 is quite lively with a nice sound (stock exhaust). It isn't the fastest thing on the planet, but the chassis is surprisingly neutral and the car is very grippy - it goes around corners well even on the old worn front tyres. Nice weighted steering (helped by 235 front tyres), and the stock brakes are not too bad either.

This weekend I've taken it to South Wales for a proper shakedown - a couple of hundred miles of A and B roads across the Brecon Beacons, as well as the 300 miles motorway journey to/from London. Car did great, and it earned itself a proper brake job before we take it down to Bedford for a track day in December.