RE: Prior Convictions: sensible supercars
Discussion
Interesting article. I have to say I own an Aston Martin DB9 and also a Cygnet ( bought 2nd hand at the bottom of the depreciation curve). While the DB is a wonderful long distance cruiser it is less practice for my short commute or going to the shops. As a consequence the Cygnet gets used most days. Oddly it also attracts more attention, especially from iQ drivers who are clearly confused.
I too have a cygnet & a DB9 - as well as a few other toys that don't get used.
My Nissan Leaf is a daily run around. The leaf is really comfortable - but the concept of the Cygnet (ie a luxurious small car) for me is a really good idea. The trouble is - the Cygnet doesn't do anything the leaf can't - except travel more than 100 miles without a 30 min charge and have a more up market badge.
So I personally think a really luxurious small electric car will be the answer going forward.
After all - I personally would want the following:-
Aircon
cruise - adaptive
auto transmission
electric windows, mirrors
leather - lots of it
heated seats
sunroof
if it had some form of autonomous capability - even better
airbags
dab
carplay or similar
sound deadening - lots of it
comfort & hard suspension - ideally switchable
My Nissan Leaf is a daily run around. The leaf is really comfortable - but the concept of the Cygnet (ie a luxurious small car) for me is a really good idea. The trouble is - the Cygnet doesn't do anything the leaf can't - except travel more than 100 miles without a 30 min charge and have a more up market badge.
So I personally think a really luxurious small electric car will be the answer going forward.
After all - I personally would want the following:-
Aircon
cruise - adaptive
auto transmission
electric windows, mirrors
leather - lots of it
heated seats
sunroof
if it had some form of autonomous capability - even better
airbags
dab
carplay or similar
sound deadening - lots of it
comfort & hard suspension - ideally switchable
Edited by oilit on Monday 25th September 08:48
Edited by oilit on Monday 25th September 08:50
Smart offer a Tailor Made service for the ForTwo. Basically special paint and the ability to cover the interior in any colour of leather. Would be interested to know how popular it is...guessing not very. Nearly bought myself a Mini Inspired by Goodwood a few years ago - they were £41k new but, given there were only 1000 made, there was a surprising amount of of nearly new ones for sale ablout 4 years ago prices in the low to mid 20s.
I see Mini Netherlands offer an individual programme in conjunction with Cools Bekledingen which seems to be doing alright.
https://www.smart.com/en/en/index/smart-BRABUS-tai...
https://www.mini-f56-forum.de/index.php/Thread/190...
I see Mini Netherlands offer an individual programme in conjunction with Cools Bekledingen which seems to be doing alright.
https://www.smart.com/en/en/index/smart-BRABUS-tai...
https://www.mini-f56-forum.de/index.php/Thread/190...
I think this raises two points: 1) the relative merits of running multiple cars and 2) what you want that daily drive to do.
My folks have just bought a Suzuki Swift Sport as a runabout. They also have an Aston V8 Vantage and an Alpina B3. Those cars do the big trips and the Swift does local running around the lanes and to the supermarket. The Swift is actually more fun for traversing the lanes than either of the others.
It’s all well and good being such an enthusiast that you *have* to use your performance car every time but that brings its own hazards and inconveniences. Personally I regularly decline to take my 911 or Exige out because I’d rather leave my Golf in the supermarket car park. Or street parked in the middle of Leeds. Or whatever.
The idea of a small, well-specced hatch is highly appealing. From my purely anecdotal observations on social media, many folk with serious car collections end up with a 140i or Golf R as a daily because they simply tick all the right boxes. Small cars are generally easier to live with on a daily basis. If you’re used to the attention a supercar can generate then a swift, anonymous, refined hatch is the perfect riposte.
My folks have just bought a Suzuki Swift Sport as a runabout. They also have an Aston V8 Vantage and an Alpina B3. Those cars do the big trips and the Swift does local running around the lanes and to the supermarket. The Swift is actually more fun for traversing the lanes than either of the others.
It’s all well and good being such an enthusiast that you *have* to use your performance car every time but that brings its own hazards and inconveniences. Personally I regularly decline to take my 911 or Exige out because I’d rather leave my Golf in the supermarket car park. Or street parked in the middle of Leeds. Or whatever.
The idea of a small, well-specced hatch is highly appealing. From my purely anecdotal observations on social media, many folk with serious car collections end up with a 140i or Golf R as a daily because they simply tick all the right boxes. Small cars are generally easier to live with on a daily basis. If you’re used to the attention a supercar can generate then a swift, anonymous, refined hatch is the perfect riposte.
Do we need to go back to the days of coachbuilding.
What we need are a couple of mass produced underpinnings. Maybe Smart, Fiat 500, Golf R and then companies to make bespoke or at least very high quality bodies & interiors.
Most premier manufacturers these days are off shoots of mass producers, so the underpinnings are ready & available.
What we need are a couple of mass produced underpinnings. Maybe Smart, Fiat 500, Golf R and then companies to make bespoke or at least very high quality bodies & interiors.
Most premier manufacturers these days are off shoots of mass producers, so the underpinnings are ready & available.
I've thought this for a long while. Guess it stems back to the ideology that luxury means size and paying more must mean having a bigger car. Maybe 30 years ago that was the mindset, but not today.
As cars have got bigger, the more I pay the more I want better fit and finish, higher quality, high specification componentry (i.e., great bushes and dampers to give much better ride and handing and improved NVH) better tech, more bespoke, more elegant style, a bigger capacity engine for effortless performance. Basically, a better car in depth of quality and engineering. What I don't necessarily want is more cheap tinsel on the outside, a bigger footprint and more metal. Cars are already getting too big for the UK roads.
Some examples; to my mind, lovely as the new Range Rover and Discovery are for example, I'd never consider one. They no longer fit the UK - too big and too much a hassle to run around anywhere other than motorways and wide open streets. Parking in any 'normal' situation - forget it. I see these hanging over parking spaces all over the place and have no sympathy if they get hit and damaged. But a better quality Discovery Sport would make my drive any day. Really coherent design and size. Shame the build quality isn't there, but thats the bit I'd happily pay for.
Same the BMW 5 and 7 series. I'd drop that sort of money on an Alpina 3 series any day. Wouldn't touch a 5 or 7. Too big.
Volvo Polestar with Ohlins dampers. Yes please. New V70 or XC90. Nope, not interested. Way too vast and thus, way too much hassle to punt about. It's not about the money, it's about the quality for me.
Always thought the cygnet a great little thing. Never driven one and it's maybe awful, but my money would be paying for the interior and attention to detail in the bit I'm sitting in, looking at and interacting with every time I got in it.
As cars have got bigger, the more I pay the more I want better fit and finish, higher quality, high specification componentry (i.e., great bushes and dampers to give much better ride and handing and improved NVH) better tech, more bespoke, more elegant style, a bigger capacity engine for effortless performance. Basically, a better car in depth of quality and engineering. What I don't necessarily want is more cheap tinsel on the outside, a bigger footprint and more metal. Cars are already getting too big for the UK roads.
Some examples; to my mind, lovely as the new Range Rover and Discovery are for example, I'd never consider one. They no longer fit the UK - too big and too much a hassle to run around anywhere other than motorways and wide open streets. Parking in any 'normal' situation - forget it. I see these hanging over parking spaces all over the place and have no sympathy if they get hit and damaged. But a better quality Discovery Sport would make my drive any day. Really coherent design and size. Shame the build quality isn't there, but thats the bit I'd happily pay for.
Same the BMW 5 and 7 series. I'd drop that sort of money on an Alpina 3 series any day. Wouldn't touch a 5 or 7. Too big.
Volvo Polestar with Ohlins dampers. Yes please. New V70 or XC90. Nope, not interested. Way too vast and thus, way too much hassle to punt about. It's not about the money, it's about the quality for me.
Always thought the cygnet a great little thing. Never driven one and it's maybe awful, but my money would be paying for the interior and attention to detail in the bit I'm sitting in, looking at and interacting with every time I got in it.
This is why i try not to get too frustrated/annoyed when people barely use their supercars and/or exotics. I can appreciate and empathise that it will be much less hassle to do the more mundane trips in something small, inconspicuous and sedate. It can even be more fun too.
I'm going to be ending my lease-streak hopefully next year and buy a cheap Clio 172/182. I'm just looking forward to having something small, fast and fun that i can call my own and not be TOO bothered about the odd ding and scratch.
I'm going to be ending my lease-streak hopefully next year and buy a cheap Clio 172/182. I'm just looking forward to having something small, fast and fun that i can call my own and not be TOO bothered about the odd ding and scratch.
This, exactly. Not sure if I would ever pay way over the odds for a run-off-the mill, transverse FWD hatchback but I would, too, consider a refined and bespoke quality take on a 3-series/C-Class over a(n even) larger car.
But what would appear most to me, is, say, Bugatti building a modestly sized, powered and tyred sports car in the mould of the original Lotus Elise, but exquisitely engineered (all forged suspension parts etc.) and a minimalist interior using only the finest materials etc. They could even call it the Brescia.
But what would appear most to me, is, say, Bugatti building a modestly sized, powered and tyred sports car in the mould of the original Lotus Elise, but exquisitely engineered (all forged suspension parts etc.) and a minimalist interior using only the finest materials etc. They could even call it the Brescia.
biggles330d said:
I've thought this for a long while. Guess it stems back to the ideology that luxury means size and paying more must mean having a bigger car. Maybe 30 years ago that was the mindset, but not today.
As cars have got bigger, the more I pay the more I want better fit and finish, higher quality, high specification componentry (i.e., great bushes and dampers to give much better ride and handing and improved NVH) better tech, more bespoke, more elegant style, a bigger capacity engine for effortless performance. Basically, a better car in depth of quality and engineering. What I don't necessarily want is more cheap tinsel on the outside, a bigger footprint and more metal. Cars are already getting too big for the UK roads.
Some examples; to my mind, lovely as the new Range Rover and Discovery are for example, I'd never consider one. They no longer fit the UK - too big and too much a hassle to run around anywhere other than motorways and wide open streets. Parking in any 'normal' situation - forget it. I see these hanging over parking spaces all over the place and have no sympathy if they get hit and damaged. But a better quality Discovery Sport would make my drive any day. Really coherent design and size. Shame the build quality isn't there, but thats the bit I'd happily pay for.
Same the BMW 5 and 7 series. I'd drop that sort of money on an Alpina 3 series any day. Wouldn't touch a 5 or 7. Too big.
Volvo Polestar with Ohlins dampers. Yes please. New V70 or XC90. Nope, not interested. Way too vast and thus, way too much hassle to punt about. It's not about the money, it's about the quality for me.
As cars have got bigger, the more I pay the more I want better fit and finish, higher quality, high specification componentry (i.e., great bushes and dampers to give much better ride and handing and improved NVH) better tech, more bespoke, more elegant style, a bigger capacity engine for effortless performance. Basically, a better car in depth of quality and engineering. What I don't necessarily want is more cheap tinsel on the outside, a bigger footprint and more metal. Cars are already getting too big for the UK roads.
Some examples; to my mind, lovely as the new Range Rover and Discovery are for example, I'd never consider one. They no longer fit the UK - too big and too much a hassle to run around anywhere other than motorways and wide open streets. Parking in any 'normal' situation - forget it. I see these hanging over parking spaces all over the place and have no sympathy if they get hit and damaged. But a better quality Discovery Sport would make my drive any day. Really coherent design and size. Shame the build quality isn't there, but thats the bit I'd happily pay for.
Same the BMW 5 and 7 series. I'd drop that sort of money on an Alpina 3 series any day. Wouldn't touch a 5 or 7. Too big.
Volvo Polestar with Ohlins dampers. Yes please. New V70 or XC90. Nope, not interested. Way too vast and thus, way too much hassle to punt about. It's not about the money, it's about the quality for me.
In the market for something small, comfortable but still with a bit of fun to be had while I transform my 6 year daily driver VX220 into a weekend dry runner, so I had a look at what Cygnet's are for sale.... well bugger. They've done reasonably well, 3 for sale at £29k, £35k and £37k.
It's been done before, some time ago.
Before the Aston Cygnet there was this:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/austin/austin-metro...
Am I the only one here that can remember the Frazer Tickford ? Essentially an Aston Martin Metro with more power than all other Metros except the MG Turbo.
Then there was this, a posh Dolly Sprint:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/panther/panther-rio...
and a posh Triumph Acclaim/Honda Ballade:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/facts-and-figures/the-co...
All massively more expensive than the cars on which they were based (Frazer Tickford was the same price as a 2.8i Granada at the time !)
Before the Aston Cygnet there was this:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/austin/austin-metro...
Am I the only one here that can remember the Frazer Tickford ? Essentially an Aston Martin Metro with more power than all other Metros except the MG Turbo.
Then there was this, a posh Dolly Sprint:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/panther/panther-rio...
and a posh Triumph Acclaim/Honda Ballade:
http://www.aronline.co.uk/facts-and-figures/the-co...
All massively more expensive than the cars on which they were based (Frazer Tickford was the same price as a 2.8i Granada at the time !)
Thinking about my day-to-day driving (and more to the point, parking) experience, I really wouldn't want anything larger than a BMW 3 Series. However, if I could afford it, and they'd make it, something with the build quality and luxury of a 7 Series, but the size of a 3 Series, would be lovely.
Boydie88 said:
... so I had a look at what Cygnet's are for sale.... well bugger. They've done reasonably well, 3 for sale at £29k, £35k and £37k.
Yes, I was surprised to see the prices too - at this rate they'll end up more expensive than a 'real' Aston! 
I remember how Aston were mocked when they brought it out, maybe they were just ahead of the game?
MitchT said:
Thinking about my day-to-day driving (and more to the point, parking) experience, I really wouldn't want anything larger than a BMW 3 Series. However, if I could afford it, and they'd make it, something with the build quality and luxury of a 7 Series, but the size of a 3 Series, would be lovely.
Alpina?Boydie88 said:
In the market for something small, comfortable but still with a bit of fun to be had while I transform my 6 year daily driver VX220 into a weekend dry runner, so I had a look at what Cygnet's are for sale.... well bugger. They've done reasonably well, 3 for sale at £29k, £35k and £37k.
I cannot believe they are still holding so much value, almost 10x the price of an IQ! They would be good fun though, in a totally different way from the VX220. You can find some highly spec'd IQ's if you are patient and know what to look for.
Heres my fleet, 2 very different daily drivers: -
And the toy.
Similar to what ducnick said above, apart from I don't like any of my cars picking up car park dents
Come to think of it, all 3 combined are worth less than a Cygnet. I'm doing something wrong here
Edited by mmcd87 on Monday 25th September 21:43
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