RE: PH Footnote: the Road Rover
Discussion
Keep Jaguar as the producer for sleek design, sporty on-road behaviour, keep Land Rover as the producer for when the going gets tough and Range Rover as the perfect blend between luxury and ability. Simple.
Clearly Robin Thicke, contrary to previous reports, was actually singing about the future JLR model range with his smash hit: Blurred Lines...
Clearly Robin Thicke, contrary to previous reports, was actually singing about the future JLR model range with his smash hit: Blurred Lines...
May not even be in-house. So much for "Road Rover"...
Jaguar Land Rover Is Said to Scout for Luxury Brand Deals
Jaguar Land Rover Is Said to Scout for Luxury Brand Deals
oldtimer2 said:
Willy Nilly said:
It seems daft and slightly short sighted to me how they are pretty much turing their back on their offroad roots.
Obviously they are going where the (huge) margin is and they are not a massive, Toyota sized company, but why not keep their hand in off road with a Defender brand? There's still and enormous market for work trucks, so they could shift volume, but they just gave it all to Toyota. Surely they could still build a decent work vehicle like the Defender was, just make it work properly and be more useable. They could even have an all out assalt of the Pari Dakar, or some other big off road event.
The J bit of JLR doesn't seem to me to get much attention, it's all about the SUV's which are almost now a parody of themselves.
With the new XE, XF, F-Pace, I-Pace and E-Pace the J part has had lots of attention!Obviously they are going where the (huge) margin is and they are not a massive, Toyota sized company, but why not keep their hand in off road with a Defender brand? There's still and enormous market for work trucks, so they could shift volume, but they just gave it all to Toyota. Surely they could still build a decent work vehicle like the Defender was, just make it work properly and be more useable. They could even have an all out assalt of the Pari Dakar, or some other big off road event.
The J bit of JLR doesn't seem to me to get much attention, it's all about the SUV's which are almost now a parody of themselves.
I read this idea of the Road Rover as a way to meet forthcoming regulations in California and China. We have yet to see the Defender replacement - between now and Geneva show? But JLR have said it is coming. An all electric version would work on a farm, recharging overnight.
t, we've forgotten about the 3, 5 and 7 series competitors, best get on that. 2.0 litre diesel ok for the XE? Yer, that'll do. Right, I'll get on that". swisstoni said:
I think RR have got a proper off-road offering in the pipeline, just to keep the story alive really because unless it gets taken up by trendies, it will probably make a loss as there aren't enough farmers and gamekeepers to go around.
There's a chuffin massive market for a proper, robust, working off road utility vehicle, just put the news on every night. But LR let it go to Toyota. I know 3 people with D4 commercials, with no replacement available to them. If they want to bring a product to market that is luxurious, and is aimed at road driving why not user the “Rover” brand? In fact why not have it as a standalone, luxury product. “The Rover”.
I must admit, I’m struggling, as per a lot of posters in this thread, to see how this fits with the brand’s current portfolio. JLR almost seem to be driving Jaguar downmarket at the moment, and using Range Rover as the luxury brand - in essence they’ve swapped over.
I must admit, I’m struggling, as per a lot of posters in this thread, to see how this fits with the brand’s current portfolio. JLR almost seem to be driving Jaguar downmarket at the moment, and using Range Rover as the luxury brand - in essence they’ve swapped over.
The other day I was thinking this:
"If I, in my mid 40s with wife and 2 kids, had a lot of money to buy an everyday car, what would I buy?"
S Class / 7 series etc? 3 box saloon just seems too old-manish for me, clever and sophisticated as they are.
Range Rover / Cayenne etc? I can see the attractions but I'm not sure I could bring myself to, given all the engineering constraints forced upon them by the need to be able to off road.
I concluded it would probably have to be a 5 series / E class sized estate, since this imaginary me is very wealthy, presumably one with a big engine.
I could see that a Road Rover might fit the bill perfectly. Crossovers are starting to dominate other segments, why not luxury?
"If I, in my mid 40s with wife and 2 kids, had a lot of money to buy an everyday car, what would I buy?"
S Class / 7 series etc? 3 box saloon just seems too old-manish for me, clever and sophisticated as they are.
Range Rover / Cayenne etc? I can see the attractions but I'm not sure I could bring myself to, given all the engineering constraints forced upon them by the need to be able to off road.
I concluded it would probably have to be a 5 series / E class sized estate, since this imaginary me is very wealthy, presumably one with a big engine.
I could see that a Road Rover might fit the bill perfectly. Crossovers are starting to dominate other segments, why not luxury?
Willy Nilly said:
There's a chuffin massive market for a proper, robust, working off road utility vehicle, just put the news on every night. But LR let it go to Toyota. I know 3 people with D4 commercials, with no replacement available to them.
^So much this. They kept the Defender going on and on until they virtually had no choice but to stop selling it - without having anything in the pipeline to replace it. They had about 30 years grace to work something out, by comparison most car product cycles are 6/7 years at a push.
Pains me to say it - but while most 2017 LR products are perfectly capable of going off road, they are just far too expensive/posh to consider using in any kind of utilitarian environment. After all, would anyone chuck a £40k disco 5 around the woods/farm/building site in the same way you would with an old Defender or Landcruiser?...
SebastienClement said:
If they want to bring a product to market that is luxurious, and is aimed at road driving why not user the “Rover” brand? In fact why not have it as a standalone, luxury product. “The Rover”.
I agree - the fact that Tata still owns the Rover brand certainly makes it possible - but I don't know how tainted the brand still is these days. Still, since Rover's demise, British car brands have really shaken off that fuddy duddy, ye olde world image that most of them still had at the end of the 90s. Jaguar makes genuinely desirable cars that can keep up with the Germans, Aston Martin and Bentley represent modern British luxury, and Range Rover has become a status symbol across the globe. We like to be critical of ourselves, but we're doing pretty well overall, I think.
How cool would it be if Rover was reborn as JLR's innovative, EV based brand? Once upon a time, Rover truly stood for new technologies and innovations. What could be better than an all electric, British built SD1 successor with modern JLR styling? A proper Tesla rival...now that would be something.
Eviltad said:
Don't Shanghai Automotive (SAIC) own the "Rover" brand?
Daimler is a Daimler Chrysler Trademark.
HTH.
Tata purchased the Rover brand off Ford in 2008 to protect their ownership of the Land Rover and Range Rover brands. SAIC wanted it, but were refused - hence why they created Roewe to sell the rebadged 75s. Daimler is a Daimler Chrysler Trademark.
HTH.
The DaimlerChrysler merger fell apart ten years ago. The Daimler in Daimler-Benz refers to the original Daimler Motoren Gesellschaft company, founded by Gottleib Daimler. When he died in 1900, DMG sold the rights to use the Daimler marque to other companies, hence the introduction of the British Daimler Motor Company.
Tata eventually purchased the Daimler and Lanchester brand names off Ford as part of the Jaguar deal in 2008. The initial intention by Tata was to properly reintroduce Daimler as a super luxury brand to take on Rolls Royce and Maybach, but the recession put the nail in that coffin.
Edited by RushDom on Tuesday 26th September 15:14
RushDom said:
I agree - the fact that Tata still owns the Rover brand certainly makes it possible - but I don't know how tainted the brand still is these days.
Still, since Rover's demise, British car brands have really shaken off that fuddy duddy, ye olde world image that most of them still had at the end of the 90s. Jaguar makes genuinely desirable cars that can keep up with the Germans, Aston Martin and Bentley represent modern British luxury, and Range Rover has become a status symbol across the globe. We like to be critical of ourselves, but we're doing pretty well overall, I think.
How cool would it be if Rover was reborn as JLR's innovative, EV based brand? Once upon a time, Rover truly stood for new technologies and innovations. What could be better than an all electric, British built SD1 successor with modern JLR styling? A proper Tesla rival...now that would be something.
Exactly what I was getting at. The brand may have some negative connotations, but if it were a brand that was purely EV and marketed as something new, innovative and a direct competitor to Tesla... well, who knows!Still, since Rover's demise, British car brands have really shaken off that fuddy duddy, ye olde world image that most of them still had at the end of the 90s. Jaguar makes genuinely desirable cars that can keep up with the Germans, Aston Martin and Bentley represent modern British luxury, and Range Rover has become a status symbol across the globe. We like to be critical of ourselves, but we're doing pretty well overall, I think.
How cool would it be if Rover was reborn as JLR's innovative, EV based brand? Once upon a time, Rover truly stood for new technologies and innovations. What could be better than an all electric, British built SD1 successor with modern JLR styling? A proper Tesla rival...now that would be something.
I’d say Range Rover has just as much a poor image as Rover - and look at them now!
What's the matter with people? It looks nothing like a Jaguar and everything like a Range Rover albeit like somebody has stood on it! Seriously though, I think it looks cool and applaud Land Rover for exploring all avenues and niches and all that. What would you think of a Jaguar 4x4 estate (jacked up thingy, a bit like the A6 crossover?) ? I don't think it would work (properly thinking about it....ie design and stuff) as Jag has always done sports/saloons/coupes etc. I know they have their 4x4's on stream now but say an XF Estate 4x4? No, it would look odd.
Well done Land Rover?Range Rover for thinking outside the box.
Well done Land Rover?Range Rover for thinking outside the box.
Norfolkandchance said:
I could see that a Road Rover might fit the bill perfectly. Crossovers are starting to dominate other segments, why not luxury?
This is a huge opportunity. In some markets, such as North America and (select) Middle East, you'll see strong upmarket CUV product from the Japanese. Acura, Lexus, Infiniti. Also a bit of German. But there's probably much more that can be done with crossovers, especially as we look upmarket and to semi-autonomous driving. There are wild cards which have yet to be played.
Jaguar have already mooted this. The Road Rover might be another. The Genesis brand could show us something. Volvo offer some segment-bending possibilities. And Cadillac, now headquartered in Manhattan and with a European managing director, has explicitly stated that they will be aggressive on the crossover front.
Well it's probably a better idea than the Velar, which as far as I can tell is a Range Rover Sport. In every single way. "Shall we make it sit neatly in between the Evoque and the Sport? Nah, just make it exactly the same size as the Sport". Nice one.
I don't see why they'd bother with this - if it's not a Land Rover, then what is it? Might as well start a new brand on the side, rather than needlessly force a company called LAND ROVER towards an arbitrary 1 million sales a year.
I don't see why they'd bother with this - if it's not a Land Rover, then what is it? Might as well start a new brand on the side, rather than needlessly force a company called LAND ROVER towards an arbitrary 1 million sales a year.
Eviltad said:
Don't Shanghai Automotive (SAIC) own the "Rover" brand?
Not quite. They bought the rights to the intellectual property in the cars from MG Rover before it went bust. Then another Chinese company bought the Longbridge factory and the MG brand, then eventually those two companies merged hence SAIC now owns MG. But the Rover brand was never part of it - it was retained by BMW at the request of Ford when they bought Landrover. Eventually Ford bought the Rover brand and transferred it to Landrover where it arguably belongs.The Daimler brand comes to Jaguar by way of their takeover of the Daimler car company in the sixties. However they don't have the rights to it across all territories which I suspect is one reason why they may not be considering it for any new uber-saloon.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff