Catalyst pellets
Discussion
Max_Torque said:
Short answer:
NO
Long Answer:
Diesel isn't "spent" it's burnt. A modern Common rail injects the liquid fuel at very high pressure (>2,000 BAR or 29,000 psi, enough to cut through steel!) at a very precise time during the combustion cycle and into the extremely fast moving and dynamic air charge already ingested into the chamber. This precision, which is expressly designed into the combustion system (using massively complex Computational Fluid Dynamics and with extensive real Test Data optimisation using Multi Degrees Of Freedom Design Of Experiment type techniques) ensures the vast majority of fuel is atomised and presents with an enormous surface area to volume ratio.
At the point of auto ignition, the flame front moves through this highly turbulent mixture, where combustion occurs (combustion (burning) is a high-temperature exothermic redox chemical reaction between a fuel, the reductant and the oxidant, oxygen) The heat released from that process drives the expansion of the working fluid (78% nitrogen and the gaseous bi-products of combustion) and that expansion is leveraged to do useful work on a piston , which extracts the work by expanding that working fluid.
The un-burnt fuel mass fraction in a modern common rail diesel engine is extremely small (well below 0.5%) and the vast majority (>85%) of that 0.5% is due to fuel trapped in quench zones or in crevice volumes (flame front can't get there) rather than unburnt hydrocarbons produced from poor combustion at the flame front.
During the development of a modern engine, advanced combustion optimisation techinques are used to calibrate the engine management system to enable it to operate at peak efficiency across all operating zones. Injection quantity, injection timing, injection events, Valve events, inlet manifold pressure, EGR rates and numerous other factors are all minutely co-optimised to allow your engine to burn the least fuel possible for any given output.
Fundamentally, an ICE is a Heat Engine. It relies on a difference in temperature and the corresponding Heat flux to provide a source of useful work. intrinsic in its operation is the relationship of combustion chamber surface area to volume ratio, which is geometrically dependent on chamber geometery, but also on the crank angle (piston height) at any given instant.
Maximum energy conversion efficiency is realised by combustion at the lowest possible chamber volume and the highest possible pressure and temperature (PV = nRT of course). Those factors also directly drive the maximum possible expansion ratio. Simplified that means we burn the fuel in mixed with the air in the most efficient manner (high temp/high press/high turbulence) so we loose the lowest amount of heat while we burn that charge, and then we expand that charge as much as we can (from the smallest volume to the largest volume) to get the work out of it.
So, if your magical in-tank balls somehow made the fuel burn, as claimed, at a lower temp (which incidentally they can't) then the burn would obviously start earlier, at a higher chamber volume (piston further down the bore) meaning that more heat is lost to the chamber walls during the burn (< efficiency), less of the fuel is burnt due to lower total charge dynamic pressure and turbulence (< efficiency again), and finally, the overall expansion ratio is reduced, because you started to burn the fuel earlier (< efficiency yet again).
Still think PH is full of people who don't know what they are talking about??
Glad you said that. Saves me having to explain it.NO
Long Answer:
Diesel isn't "spent" it's burnt. A modern Common rail injects the liquid fuel at very high pressure (>2,000 BAR or 29,000 psi, enough to cut through steel!) at a very precise time during the combustion cycle and into the extremely fast moving and dynamic air charge already ingested into the chamber. This precision, which is expressly designed into the combustion system (using massively complex Computational Fluid Dynamics and with extensive real Test Data optimisation using Multi Degrees Of Freedom Design Of Experiment type techniques) ensures the vast majority of fuel is atomised and presents with an enormous surface area to volume ratio.
At the point of auto ignition, the flame front moves through this highly turbulent mixture, where combustion occurs (combustion (burning) is a high-temperature exothermic redox chemical reaction between a fuel, the reductant and the oxidant, oxygen) The heat released from that process drives the expansion of the working fluid (78% nitrogen and the gaseous bi-products of combustion) and that expansion is leveraged to do useful work on a piston , which extracts the work by expanding that working fluid.
The un-burnt fuel mass fraction in a modern common rail diesel engine is extremely small (well below 0.5%) and the vast majority (>85%) of that 0.5% is due to fuel trapped in quench zones or in crevice volumes (flame front can't get there) rather than unburnt hydrocarbons produced from poor combustion at the flame front.
During the development of a modern engine, advanced combustion optimisation techinques are used to calibrate the engine management system to enable it to operate at peak efficiency across all operating zones. Injection quantity, injection timing, injection events, Valve events, inlet manifold pressure, EGR rates and numerous other factors are all minutely co-optimised to allow your engine to burn the least fuel possible for any given output.
Fundamentally, an ICE is a Heat Engine. It relies on a difference in temperature and the corresponding Heat flux to provide a source of useful work. intrinsic in its operation is the relationship of combustion chamber surface area to volume ratio, which is geometrically dependent on chamber geometery, but also on the crank angle (piston height) at any given instant.
Maximum energy conversion efficiency is realised by combustion at the lowest possible chamber volume and the highest possible pressure and temperature (PV = nRT of course). Those factors also directly drive the maximum possible expansion ratio. Simplified that means we burn the fuel in mixed with the air in the most efficient manner (high temp/high press/high turbulence) so we loose the lowest amount of heat while we burn that charge, and then we expand that charge as much as we can (from the smallest volume to the largest volume) to get the work out of it.
So, if your magical in-tank balls somehow made the fuel burn, as claimed, at a lower temp (which incidentally they can't) then the burn would obviously start earlier, at a higher chamber volume (piston further down the bore) meaning that more heat is lost to the chamber walls during the burn (< efficiency), less of the fuel is burnt due to lower total charge dynamic pressure and turbulence (< efficiency again), and finally, the overall expansion ratio is reduced, because you started to burn the fuel earlier (< efficiency yet again).
Still think PH is full of people who don't know what they are talking about??
danmartin1778 said:
Alot of people can tell you something won't work but can't tell you why.
Because a load of baloney is simple to spot for even the most modest of minds.You don't need to be any expert in a field to know when something is rubbish.
If I see a monkey smearing s
t on a wall, I don't have to be an art expert to know he's not going to come up with a fking Picasso.danmartin1778 said:
I didn't pay anything for them. As to whether they 'work'; what do you think that I think they do? Honestly mate I wouldn't waste my time replying to something I thought was a load of rubbish. These sort of forums are full of people with no life, and no car knowledge. I bet you havent seen a socket set never mind used one?
The arrogance mixed with the ignorance. It’s beautiful to behold.Willy Nilly said:
If these pellet worked, they would be fitted my the manufacturer.
Ahem, see my earlier post. Many years ago they were fitted by Japanese manufacturers like Subaru and Mitsubishi to some of their performance cars to improve fuel burning properties and reduce pre-detonation on cars officially imported to the UK to due to them originally being mapped for higher grade 100 ron fuel in Japan. 
Guvernator said:
Ahem, see my earlier post. Many years ago they were fitted by Japanese manufacturers like Subaru and Mitsubishi to some of their performance cars to improve fuel burning properties and reduce pre-detonation on cars officially imported to the UK to due to them originally being mapped for higher grade 100 ron fuel in Japan.
I'd take that claim with a serious pinch of salt, unless backed up by evidence of actual vehicles on the road being found to have them in the tank when inspected.One of the marketing tricks they often use is to claim links to OEMs, based on spurious contacts with individuals within the OEM that don't ultimately give a flat no - a 'we'll think about it' response will result in press notices claiming their product is in use on vehicles leaving the line/under evaluation etc etc.
A particular favourite of mine is one outfit that claim their kettle device allows your old pre-Euro 6 vehicle to meet the latest emissions limits (it can't possibly without an SCR system) AND allows dispensation from TfL pollution charge because of it (which it absolutely does not).
Guvernator said:
Willy Nilly said:
If these pellet worked, they would be fitted my the manufacturer.
Ahem, see my earlier post. Many years ago they were fitted by Japanese manufacturers like Subaru and Mitsubishi to some of their performance cars to improve fuel burning properties and reduce pre-detonation on cars officially imported to the UK to due to them originally being mapped for higher grade 100 ron fuel in Japan. iirc the boss of IM believed in all sorts of implausible stuff.
This all began from improving aviation fuel during WWII. Some benefit seems to have been noted but nothing proved scientifically.
I imagine that unless you're running 100 octane at over 30000 feet, they are unlikley to do anthing but empty your wallet.
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-70278.ht...
I imagine that unless you're running 100 octane at over 30000 feet, they are unlikley to do anthing but empty your wallet.
http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-70278.ht...
This thread came up when I searched for FTC calalyst, having seen adverts in a number of magazines.
I thought it was interesting that the pages on their website consist of images, not text. For example, this one, which features Dr. Victor Cunningham PhD, BSc, DLC. The fact that it's an image within an image makes it difficult to search for Dr. Vic's image on the internet.
http://www.ftcdirect.com/about.html
Dr. Cunningham is effusive in his endorsement of FTC, and given his qualifications and his development of the first exhaust catalysts, one might expect to find evidence of his work, although, until now, it has proved difficult to track him down.
I am happy to report that Dr. C, contrary to speculation on other forums, does exist, and supplements his income by posing for stock images in Germany. There are even a couple of him wearing a white coat and a stethoscope - quite the polymath.
https://www.dreamstime.com/mangostock_latest-stock...
https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-portrait-s...
Just thought I'd post this to allay the fears of anyone who found this thread while doing their due diligence.
(The identification of Dr. Cunningham is courtesy of a video, entitled "SCAM turned up to 11!", posted on YouTube by "The Workshop".)
I thought it was interesting that the pages on their website consist of images, not text. For example, this one, which features Dr. Victor Cunningham PhD, BSc, DLC. The fact that it's an image within an image makes it difficult to search for Dr. Vic's image on the internet.
http://www.ftcdirect.com/about.html
Dr. Cunningham is effusive in his endorsement of FTC, and given his qualifications and his development of the first exhaust catalysts, one might expect to find evidence of his work, although, until now, it has proved difficult to track him down.
I am happy to report that Dr. C, contrary to speculation on other forums, does exist, and supplements his income by posing for stock images in Germany. There are even a couple of him wearing a white coat and a stethoscope - quite the polymath.
https://www.dreamstime.com/mangostock_latest-stock...
https://www.dreamstime.com/stock-images-portrait-s...
Just thought I'd post this to allay the fears of anyone who found this thread while doing their due diligence.
(The identification of Dr. Cunningham is courtesy of a video, entitled "SCAM turned up to 11!", posted on YouTube by "The Workshop".)
Firstly I'm of retirement age but have been around tuned cars since childhood as Dad had various franchises that sold performance cars. I've also worked for car manufacturers BMW, Jaguar and Jeep. I've been involved in dealerships that sold integrales, both standard and tuned. So somewhere I should know what I'm talking about.
I dropped these pellets into the tank of my Jeep KJ 2.8 CRD six months ago. I'd been running it for six months and it was ok as a daily driver but after running Grand Cherokee 4.0 petrols for fifteen years it was a bit lethargic. Sizewise it suited me as the kids have left home but I still work so I do a reasonably high mileage.
When I dropped these pellets into the tank I was Day 3 of a 5 day job involving driving on the M27. On Day 4 I realised my speed on the M27 was 10 mph faster for no more effort or noise. Since then on country roads initial acceleration is much better and it revs well whereas before it was sluggish. I don't know about economy but its a more fun car to drive. I drive it as i would a GTi and it pulls away from traffic very well in that 25-60 mph band. From then on acceleration doesn't register being the shape of a brick built Sh*t house. I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this but for £40 or under if you have a sluggish car, drop them in your tank.
So standing start acceleration, greatly improved. Cruising at 70 mph and above, greatly improved. Economy improvement, no idea. Emissions at mot, near perfect.
I dropped these pellets into the tank of my Jeep KJ 2.8 CRD six months ago. I'd been running it for six months and it was ok as a daily driver but after running Grand Cherokee 4.0 petrols for fifteen years it was a bit lethargic. Sizewise it suited me as the kids have left home but I still work so I do a reasonably high mileage.
When I dropped these pellets into the tank I was Day 3 of a 5 day job involving driving on the M27. On Day 4 I realised my speed on the M27 was 10 mph faster for no more effort or noise. Since then on country roads initial acceleration is much better and it revs well whereas before it was sluggish. I don't know about economy but its a more fun car to drive. I drive it as i would a GTi and it pulls away from traffic very well in that 25-60 mph band. From then on acceleration doesn't register being the shape of a brick built Sh*t house. I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this but for £40 or under if you have a sluggish car, drop them in your tank.
So standing start acceleration, greatly improved. Cruising at 70 mph and above, greatly improved. Economy improvement, no idea. Emissions at mot, near perfect.
Tazar said:
Firstly I'm of retirement age but have been around tuned cars since childhood as Dad had various franchises that sold performance cars. I've also worked for car manufacturers BMW, Jaguar and Jeep. I've been involved in dealerships that sold integrales, both standard and tuned. So somewhere I should know what I'm talking about.
I dropped these pellets into the tank of my Jeep KJ 2.8 CRD six months ago. I'd been running it for six months and it was ok as a daily driver but after running Grand Cherokee 4.0 petrols for fifteen years it was a bit lethargic. Sizewise it suited me as the kids have left home but I still work so I do a reasonably high mileage.
When I dropped these pellets into the tank I was Day 3 of a 5 day job involving driving on the M27. On Day 4 I realised my speed on the M27 was 10 mph faster for no more effort or noise. Since then on country roads initial acceleration is much better and it revs well whereas before it was sluggish. I don't know about economy but its a more fun car to drive. I drive it as i would a GTi and it pulls away from traffic very well in that 25-60 mph band. From then on acceleration doesn't register being the shape of a brick built Sh*t house. I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this but for £40 or under if you have a sluggish car, drop them in your tank.
So standing start acceleration, greatly improved. Cruising at 70 mph and above, greatly improved. Economy improvement, no idea. Emissions at mot, near perfect.
Do you have a link to your website where I can buy them from?I dropped these pellets into the tank of my Jeep KJ 2.8 CRD six months ago. I'd been running it for six months and it was ok as a daily driver but after running Grand Cherokee 4.0 petrols for fifteen years it was a bit lethargic. Sizewise it suited me as the kids have left home but I still work so I do a reasonably high mileage.
When I dropped these pellets into the tank I was Day 3 of a 5 day job involving driving on the M27. On Day 4 I realised my speed on the M27 was 10 mph faster for no more effort or noise. Since then on country roads initial acceleration is much better and it revs well whereas before it was sluggish. I don't know about economy but its a more fun car to drive. I drive it as i would a GTi and it pulls away from traffic very well in that 25-60 mph band. From then on acceleration doesn't register being the shape of a brick built Sh*t house. I don't understand the reasoning behind all of this but for £40 or under if you have a sluggish car, drop them in your tank.
So standing start acceleration, greatly improved. Cruising at 70 mph and above, greatly improved. Economy improvement, no idea. Emissions at mot, near perfect.
FTC are the pellets suppliers. Google them and they come up pretty quickly. Lots of people poo poo them without trying them. I was prepared to be disappointed but quite the contrary, I'm very pleased. A number of people have tested them on forums and magazines but for various reasons they don't give the right answers.
I've met a number of people who have used them and they have done really good jobs in oldish cars that maybe have a high mileage, may not have run on the best fuel or similar. My Jeep I bought from a woman who skimped on spending on it so it may be a combination of things. But they have worked for me
I've met a number of people who have used them and they have done really good jobs in oldish cars that maybe have a high mileage, may not have run on the best fuel or similar. My Jeep I bought from a woman who skimped on spending on it so it may be a combination of things. But they have worked for me
Tazar said:
Firstly I'm of retirement age but have been around tuned cars since childhood as Dad had various franchises that sold performance cars. I've also worked for car manufacturers BMW, Jaguar and Jeep. I've been involved in dealerships that sold integrales, both standard and tuned. So somewhere I should know what I'm talking about.
So daddy liked fast cars 60 years ago and you've been washing the trade-ins for a few dealerships ever since. How does this make you a font of knowledge about chemistry and internal combustion engines exactly?We need MSDS and elemental analysis to determine if it will actually do anything.
consider that dropping a few bullets in your tank does not make leaded petrol, and consider how many petrol stations would sell a new “Super Unleaded with added Pellets” if ANY efficacy was present.
We know the placebo effect exists, and we know people don’t like to post on forums about how they wasted their money on some pointless guff that doesn’t work. We know that people are susceptible to confirmation bias.
Snake-oil companies pay people to go to every car-forum they can find and spread the word about this new wonder-additive whilst under the guise of an independent, non-sponsored forum user. The practice is disingenuous in the extreme.
consider that dropping a few bullets in your tank does not make leaded petrol, and consider how many petrol stations would sell a new “Super Unleaded with added Pellets” if ANY efficacy was present.
We know the placebo effect exists, and we know people don’t like to post on forums about how they wasted their money on some pointless guff that doesn’t work. We know that people are susceptible to confirmation bias.
Snake-oil companies pay people to go to every car-forum they can find and spread the word about this new wonder-additive whilst under the guise of an independent, non-sponsored forum user. The practice is disingenuous in the extreme.
Tazar said:
FTC are the pellets suppliers. Google them and they come up pretty quickly. Lots of people poo poo them without trying them. I was prepared to be disappointed but quite the contrary, I'm very pleased. A number of people have tested them on forums and magazines but for various reasons they don't give the right answers.
I've met a number of people who have used them and they have done really good jobs in oldish cars that maybe have a high mileage, may not have run on the best fuel or similar. My Jeep I bought from a woman who skimped on spending on it so it may be a combination of things. But they have worked for me
You are Dr. Victor Cunningham and ICMFP.I've met a number of people who have used them and they have done really good jobs in oldish cars that maybe have a high mileage, may not have run on the best fuel or similar. My Jeep I bought from a woman who skimped on spending on it so it may be a combination of things. But they have worked for me
FRO with your bulls
t - right above your post is one that reveals the fakery in FTC adverts and fliers, including using stock photos to represent a non-existent expert.Tazar said:
FTC are the pellets suppliers. Google them and they come up pretty quickly. Lots of people poo poo them without trying them. I was prepared to be disappointed but quite the contrary, I'm very pleased. A number of people have tested them on forums and magazines but for various reasons they don't give the right answers.
For whom? The vendors?! Assuming you are not a shill (reminds me of the Devanti tires episode), you have to concede that your narrative is somewhat incredible and lacks any scientific support whatsoever.
The sales tactic seems to work on creating doubt and selling to those who think “it MIGHT be worth it’s only 40 quid.
Looking at the pic of Dr Vic in gareth-r's post above & comparing it with the pic of Dr Vic in the current advert if that's the effect long term exposure to these things has I'm going nowhere hear them! 
https://ftcdirect.com/pages/about-ftc
https://ftcdirect.com/pages/about-ftc
paintman said:
Looking at the pic of Dr Vic in gareth-r's post above & comparing it with the pic of Dr Vic in the current advert if that's the effect long term exposure to these things has I'm going nowhere hear them!
https://ftcdirect.com/pages/about-ftc
You owe me a new bullshttps://ftcdirect.com/pages/about-ftc
t detector, you swine - mine has just exploded! That website reminds me of Eric Morecambes piano playing, all the right words, just not in the right order!
Not exactly new though, I've got some scanned car magazines going back over a century, and almost all of them have some sort of Magic Woo Device to boost your mpg, and the sellers bank balance, of course
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