Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
RaineyDays said:
Seems like the all use the WBAC valuation tool.
Traded my last car in and get a pretty derisory price, asked the dealer if there was anything he could do as I felt that was pretty low. (£13k)
“That’s the auction price that we will get for it. We aren’t interested in selling it so will just pass it on.”
2 weeks later it appears on their website for £3K more than they me gave for it and it took a week to sell.
I don’t know what car it was so can’t really comment but £600 to the VAT man, say £600 to prep & valet, £100 for the salesman, turning on the lights, advertising,admin, etc, etc....doesn’t sound unreasonable does it?Traded my last car in and get a pretty derisory price, asked the dealer if there was anything he could do as I felt that was pretty low. (£13k)
“That’s the auction price that we will get for it. We aren’t interested in selling it so will just pass it on.”
2 weeks later it appears on their website for £3K more than they me gave for it and it took a week to sell.
twing said:
I don’t know what car it was so can’t really comment but £600 to the VAT man, say £600 to prep & valet, £100 for the salesman, turning on the lights, advertising,admin, etc, etc....doesn’t sound unreasonable does it?
£600 to prep and valet. Have a word...And probably the £5k or £6k they made on the RS.
Why lie that it’s going straight to auction?
RaineyDays said:
£600 to prep and valet. Have a word...
And probably the £5k or £6k they made on the RS.
Why lie that it’s going straight to auction?
£600 of prep is easily done, workshop usually charge retail or close to retail hourly rates. Few hours for a check over, possible MOT and/or service add a warranty and that's £600 doneAnd probably the £5k or £6k they made on the RS.
Why lie that it’s going straight to auction?
Again take the VAT, prep, etc out of the RS, plus the money they put against warranty for it and £5000 isn’t much on the bottom line. Why “have a word” about £600 prep/valet? What do you think it would cost? Like I said, I don’t know what the p-ex was but £50 for an alloy refurb, 60 for a smart repair, full service, a couple of ours to valet & detail? And as for saying it’s going to auction does that matter to you? You could have put it to BCA & taken your chance or you could have sold it privately & put up with the tire kickers et al. You decided to chop it in, what happens after that is irrelevant
RaineyDays said:
£600 to prep and valet. Have a word...
And probably the £5k or £6k they made on the RS.
Why lie that it’s going straight to auction?
This annoys me - btw I'm not a trader.And probably the £5k or £6k they made on the RS.
Why lie that it’s going straight to auction?
They "did" you on the car you bought from them and they "did" you on the car you sold them
No, they only "did" you on your new car.
They "did" someone else on your old one.
In answer to your final question, it's because it made you think you wouldn't get any more for it - and it worked.
Some sales people lie, some change their minds. same as any section of the poplutation ( except maybe nuns)
talksthetorque said:
RaineyDays said:
£600 to prep and valet. Have a word...
And probably the £5k or £6k they made on the RS.
Why lie that it’s going straight to auction?
This annoys me - btw I'm not a trader.And probably the £5k or £6k they made on the RS.
Why lie that it’s going straight to auction?
They "did" you on the car you bought from them and they "did" you on the car you sold them
No, they only "did" you on your new car.
They "did" someone else on your old one.
In answer to your final question, it's because it made you think you wouldn't get any more for it - and it worked.
Some sales people lie, some change their minds. same as any section of the poplutation ( except maybe nuns)
I’m insulted that you compare us to the Catholic Church tbh, we’re not THAT bent!
twing said:
talksthetorque said:
This annoys me - btw I'm not a trader.
They "did" you on the car you bought from them and they "did" you on the car you sold them
No, they only "did" you on your new car.
They "did" someone else on your old one.
In answer to your final question, it's because it made you think you wouldn't get any more for it - and it worked.
Some sales people lie, some change their minds. same as any section of the poplutation ( except maybe nuns)
I’m insulted that you compare us to the Catholic Church tbh, we’re not THAT bent!They "did" you on the car you bought from them and they "did" you on the car you sold them
No, they only "did" you on your new car.
They "did" someone else on your old one.
In answer to your final question, it's because it made you think you wouldn't get any more for it - and it worked.
Some sales people lie, some change their minds. same as any section of the poplutation ( except maybe nuns)
Workshop charges retail.
That has to be the biggest load of bull I've ever heard.
They might do on paper for accounting and to keep you on your toes but I simply do not believe that a business actually bills itself to its own detriment.
If you are paying retail why not just go down the local hand car wash for a £40 valet and nip to kwik fit for the oil change? You would make more profit.
That has to be the biggest load of bull I've ever heard.
They might do on paper for accounting and to keep you on your toes but I simply do not believe that a business actually bills itself to its own detriment.
If you are paying retail why not just go down the local hand car wash for a £40 valet and nip to kwik fit for the oil change? You would make more profit.
twing said:
I don’t know what car it was so can’t really comment but £600 to the VAT man, say £600 to prep & valet, £100 for the salesman, turning on the lights, advertising,admin, etc, etc....doesn’t sound unreasonable does it?
£500 to the VAT man on £3K markup, surely? - but you're also reclaiming input VAT on parts, etc.Rick101 said:
Workshop charges retail.
That has to be the biggest load of bull I've ever heard.
They might do on paper for accounting and to keep you on your toes but I simply do not believe that a business actually bills itself to its own detriment.
If you are paying retail why not just go down the local hand car wash for a £40 valet and nip to kwik fit for the oil change? You would make more profit.
This is the Salesman thread remember so from their point of view they are paying retail or close to it, they can't go elsewhere as they will be under strict instruction not to!That has to be the biggest load of bull I've ever heard.
They might do on paper for accounting and to keep you on your toes but I simply do not believe that a business actually bills itself to its own detriment.
If you are paying retail why not just go down the local hand car wash for a £40 valet and nip to kwik fit for the oil change? You would make more profit.
Of course from an overall business point of view the true cost of prep is the parts required and the wages of the tech, 'wooden dollars' was the phrase rolled out by our DP when we used to query the rates we paid to our service department.
I quite agree. I understand the limitations and why they would be told to do it that way.
However if you are charging 'retail' for workshop, then workshop is also making a healthy profit with a steady steam of guaranteed work.
Discounting £1k for prep off their bottom line is the sales bottom line. I would imagine in reality, to the business, that prep cost is substantially less.
However if you are charging 'retail' for workshop, then workshop is also making a healthy profit with a steady steam of guaranteed work.
Discounting £1k for prep off their bottom line is the sales bottom line. I would imagine in reality, to the business, that prep cost is substantially less.
I'm not a trader or in the motor business, but just from my perspective on these complaints about charging retail (ish) workshop rates to the sales department.
Assuming it's a normal outfit with servicing, repairs etc as main part of business, what would the workshop be doing if it wasn't working for sales department. It would be working on customer cars charging retail rates and earning profit. That profit is required to maintain the earnings to capital employed ratio for the workshop, especially if the management run a business split into profit centres concept. Regardless of that, said earnings are needed to make up the overall earnings to capital employed ratio. Doing stuff at cost or below hurts one centre to the benefit of the other and ultimately loss of profit opportunity. Personally I can understand completely why places use retail rates for making a decision what to do, however they might not treat it that way in the management accounts if one centre needs a bit of support in the figures.
Assuming it's a normal outfit with servicing, repairs etc as main part of business, what would the workshop be doing if it wasn't working for sales department. It would be working on customer cars charging retail rates and earning profit. That profit is required to maintain the earnings to capital employed ratio for the workshop, especially if the management run a business split into profit centres concept. Regardless of that, said earnings are needed to make up the overall earnings to capital employed ratio. Doing stuff at cost or below hurts one centre to the benefit of the other and ultimately loss of profit opportunity. Personally I can understand completely why places use retail rates for making a decision what to do, however they might not treat it that way in the management accounts if one centre needs a bit of support in the figures.
FiF said:
I'm not a trader or in the motor business, but just from my perspective on these complaints about charging retail (ish) workshop rates to the sales department.
Assuming it's a normal outfit with servicing, repairs etc as main part of business, what would the workshop be doing if it wasn't working for sales department. It would be working on customer cars charging retail rates and earning profit. That profit is required to maintain the earnings to capital employed ratio for the workshop, especially if the management run a business split into profit centres concept. Regardless of that, said earnings are needed to make up the overall earnings to capital employed ratio. Doing stuff at cost or below hurts one centre to the benefit of the other and ultimately loss of profit opportunity. Personally I can understand completely why places use retail rates for making a decision what to do, however they might not treat it that way in the management accounts if one centre needs a bit of support in the figures.
Exactly rightAssuming it's a normal outfit with servicing, repairs etc as main part of business, what would the workshop be doing if it wasn't working for sales department. It would be working on customer cars charging retail rates and earning profit. That profit is required to maintain the earnings to capital employed ratio for the workshop, especially if the management run a business split into profit centres concept. Regardless of that, said earnings are needed to make up the overall earnings to capital employed ratio. Doing stuff at cost or below hurts one centre to the benefit of the other and ultimately loss of profit opportunity. Personally I can understand completely why places use retail rates for making a decision what to do, however they might not treat it that way in the management accounts if one centre needs a bit of support in the figures.
The way I buy cars from my soon to be joined in a single site JLR dealer is about to change apparently.
I bought my last new Land Rover last year by Facebook Messenger while walking the dog.. The salesman messaged me with a deal to change to a brand new car. We talked paint and trim and I popped along the next day to sign stuff. The car arrived from the factory in due course. PDI done, sign more stuff, get some goodies, hand shake and away.
Apparently in future when considering a new car I will be met and greeted. I will be asked if it's a Jag or Landy I'm after and I will then be introduced to a product specialist or some such titled person. They'll tell me all about the cars and let me drive one.
Then if I want to go ahead I'll meet a salesman and do the deal.
Then when the car is ready a handover specialist will make a big song and dance and unveil the car etc etc.
What a load of old crap!
I already predict a problem. My next new car may be a new Discovery, Velar or F-Pace. I'm also considering the possibility of getting a used FFRR instead.
I guess the days of being a long standing customer who knows the staff and who can turn up for a chat about a potential future purchase or who buys a car by text are over.
I'm not the sort of customer who goes into car buying in a confrontational manner. The best deals are where everyone is happy and a business relationship is maintained or created.
Anyone got experience or opinions of the above?
I bought my last new Land Rover last year by Facebook Messenger while walking the dog.. The salesman messaged me with a deal to change to a brand new car. We talked paint and trim and I popped along the next day to sign stuff. The car arrived from the factory in due course. PDI done, sign more stuff, get some goodies, hand shake and away.
Apparently in future when considering a new car I will be met and greeted. I will be asked if it's a Jag or Landy I'm after and I will then be introduced to a product specialist or some such titled person. They'll tell me all about the cars and let me drive one.
Then if I want to go ahead I'll meet a salesman and do the deal.
Then when the car is ready a handover specialist will make a big song and dance and unveil the car etc etc.
What a load of old crap!
I already predict a problem. My next new car may be a new Discovery, Velar or F-Pace. I'm also considering the possibility of getting a used FFRR instead.
I guess the days of being a long standing customer who knows the staff and who can turn up for a chat about a potential future purchase or who buys a car by text are over.
I'm not the sort of customer who goes into car buying in a confrontational manner. The best deals are where everyone is happy and a business relationship is maintained or created.
Anyone got experience or opinions of the above?
Wildcat45 said:
The way I buy cars from my soon to be joined in a single site JLR dealer is about to change apparently.
I bought my last new Land Rover last year by Facebook Messenger while walking the dog.. The salesman messaged me with a deal to change to a brand new car. We talked paint and trim and I popped along the next day to sign stuff. The car arrived from the factory in due course. PDI done, sign more stuff, get some goodies, hand shake and away.
Apparently in future when considering a new car I will be met and greeted. I will be asked if it's a Jag or Landy I'm after and I will then be introduced to a product specialist or some such titled person. They'll tell me all about the cars and let me drive one.
Then if I want to go ahead I'll meet a salesman and do the deal.
Then when the car is ready a handover specialist will make a big song and dance and unveil the car etc etc.
What a load of old crap!
I already predict a problem. My next new car may be a new Discovery, Velar or F-Pace. I'm also considering the possibility of getting a used FFRR instead.
I guess the days of being a long standing customer who knows the staff and who can turn up for a chat about a potential future purchase or who buys a car by text are over.
I'm not the sort of customer who goes into car buying in a confrontational manner. The best deals are where everyone is happy and a business relationship is maintained or created.
Anyone got experience or opinions of the above?
More and more dealers are now employing product geniuses or whatever they are called.I bought my last new Land Rover last year by Facebook Messenger while walking the dog.. The salesman messaged me with a deal to change to a brand new car. We talked paint and trim and I popped along the next day to sign stuff. The car arrived from the factory in due course. PDI done, sign more stuff, get some goodies, hand shake and away.
Apparently in future when considering a new car I will be met and greeted. I will be asked if it's a Jag or Landy I'm after and I will then be introduced to a product specialist or some such titled person. They'll tell me all about the cars and let me drive one.
Then if I want to go ahead I'll meet a salesman and do the deal.
Then when the car is ready a handover specialist will make a big song and dance and unveil the car etc etc.
What a load of old crap!
I already predict a problem. My next new car may be a new Discovery, Velar or F-Pace. I'm also considering the possibility of getting a used FFRR instead.
I guess the days of being a long standing customer who knows the staff and who can turn up for a chat about a potential future purchase or who buys a car by text are over.
I'm not the sort of customer who goes into car buying in a confrontational manner. The best deals are where everyone is happy and a business relationship is maintained or created.
Anyone got experience or opinions of the above?
Certain manufacturers now such as Mercedes have so many products, engine choices, trim levels, options and accessories that is becoming increasingly frustrating for dealers to keep up and abreast of it all.
Hence these geniuses whose sole job is too know these product lines inside out and leave the actual selling/test drive/availability/financing to the sales team.
Just after a bit of guidance please, I appreciate from following this thread that this question may be a bit 'how long is a piece of string'.
We are looking to purchase an MPV from a main dealer, a few years old and been on sale for approx 1 month. These don't seem to be selling but holding onto value.
We have a car to part exchange. On Auto trader these are priced at £5700-£6500 for comparable year, mileage and model. Ours will need a machine polish, a repair to bumper edge where a scrape is and a general good valet. It has 1.5-2 year transferrable OEM warranty remaining. It also has a fsh.
WBAC suggests £4885 for I assume perfect condition. I was hoping for a average CAP condition over poor but the Ford consumer CAP tool isn't working so I can't check what those values are.
I appreciate that some money may be taken off the sale car but in roughly what area should we be looking at for a P/X value or is it simply aim for £4885 and £4300-4500 would be a great deal as that only leaves a little profit for the dealer? Or are we likely to be offered less? I would like a figure in mind before we test drive the MPV and sit down with the dealer as I'm rubbish at negotiation and would like to state realistically what I'd like.
Thanks in advance.
Deal will be done this month if that makes any difference, I understand it could be a slow month for sales.
We are looking to purchase an MPV from a main dealer, a few years old and been on sale for approx 1 month. These don't seem to be selling but holding onto value.
We have a car to part exchange. On Auto trader these are priced at £5700-£6500 for comparable year, mileage and model. Ours will need a machine polish, a repair to bumper edge where a scrape is and a general good valet. It has 1.5-2 year transferrable OEM warranty remaining. It also has a fsh.
WBAC suggests £4885 for I assume perfect condition. I was hoping for a average CAP condition over poor but the Ford consumer CAP tool isn't working so I can't check what those values are.
I appreciate that some money may be taken off the sale car but in roughly what area should we be looking at for a P/X value or is it simply aim for £4885 and £4300-4500 would be a great deal as that only leaves a little profit for the dealer? Or are we likely to be offered less? I would like a figure in mind before we test drive the MPV and sit down with the dealer as I'm rubbish at negotiation and would like to state realistically what I'd like.
Thanks in advance.
Deal will be done this month if that makes any difference, I understand it could be a slow month for sales.
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