Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.

[Cooper2]

Morning all,
Looking at an approved used. Marshall Audi is having an event this weekend but due to work commitments I can’t get into the dealership. I have been told by 2 different dealerships that whatever quote is given over the phone or online will not be as competitive as one provided on their premises. “Rates will be looked on an individual basis” isn’t that price discrimination? The lack of price transparency at least on the rates available for PCP seems odd. They might be apprehensive to give their best rates to avoid people using it as a bargaining tool when dealing with other sellers but this is just running until Monday.

[anonymous-user]

Sounds like classic hard sell tactics - get you in there for a deal face to face with the time pressure hanging over you and a busy showroom full of other punters all keen to take "your" car if you don't do the deal right now. They're definitely not there for a bit of a mooch about and free coffee and biccies, oh no, it's a special weekend. They want the same car as you, you wouldn't want to lose out on this never to be repeated deal, would you?

That sort of event has never convinced me - especially when they don't align with an end of period or similar. I'm sure there are sometimes blinding deals to be had, but in general it feels like an awfully cynical marketing exercise.

Maybe I'm being too negative (this is PH after all) so what do our friends in the trade reckon?

[The Li-ion King]

charltjr said:

Sounds like classic hard sell tactics - get you in there for a deal face to face with the time pressure hanging over you and a busy showroom full of other punters all keen to take "your" car if you don't do the deal right now. They're definitely not there for a bit of a mooch about and free coffee and biccies, oh no, it's a special weekend. They want the same car as you, you wouldn't want to lose out on this never to be repeated deal, would you?

That sort of event has never convinced me - especially when they don't align with an end of period or similar. I'm sure there are sometimes blinding deals to be had, but in general it feels like an awfully cynical marketing exercise.

Maybe I'm being too negative (this is PH after all) so what do our friends in the trade reckon?

I've experienced this in a well known 4x4 seller near me in Essex... I did go to look at an X5, it was well below spec with no pan roof or reverse cameras etc., but after sitting in the car you can convince yourself it will do... next thing is being passed to the Finance guy who takes your deposit and promises you a PCP monthly deal 'under £600'... he came back with £595 I think those of us in London feel pressured to buy the Euro6 diesel stuff thanks to Sadiq Khan and the charge coming in April, and a lot of dealers have cottoned onto this. Expect a few more 'sales events' once 19 reg comes out and slightly older stock needs to be shifted

Car supermarkets have form for this. I tend to go to smaller dealers where there's less pressure and generally one guy dealing with the sale from start to finish.

[Wildcat45]

I got something from my JLR dealer the other day. Exclusive event and a £500 voucher which could treble or whatever in the showroom. No thanks.

I'd rather buy them as I have my last 3 Land Rovers. Late September from stuff built for stock that they want shifting. It helps that I knew the sales guy well so there was no fannying round horse trading. With my latest car he'd become the bloke in the office the salesman has to go and see to do you a deal, which cut through a lot of the crap.

It's a shame he became dissolutioned with the motor trade and went on to do something else.

[mylesmcd]

I work in the American used car market and the above type of offer is very helpful to get fence sitters to commit. A bit of impending doom works wonders!

[Cooper2]

mylesmcd said:

I work in the American used car market and the above type of offer is very helpful to get fence sitters to commit. A bit of impending doom works wonders!

How could I commit if they give me a low value for part exchange, a high APR on a PCP over the phone but tell me to book an appointment at the dealership so they could give me a more favourable rate? Fed up with it and just wait, save more and go for a factory order.

[HTP99]

mylesmcd said:

I work in the American used car market and the above type of offer is very helpful to get fence sitters to commit. A bit of impending doom works wonders!

I think by and large the UK consumer can see it for the bull st that it actually is.

[Sheepshanks]

We went to a Honda special event, invitation only etc etc, and it was a bit embarrassing as we were the only customers in the showroom the whole time we were there.

We did buy (new) but the deal was no better than was available otherwise. The "special discount voucher" was discount off list. Maybe there are still people who pay list?

[jamei303]

My local Ford dealership did an invitation-only balloon popping event, with discount vouchers of varying value inside each balloon.

[JaredVannett]

Sheepshanks said:

We went to a Honda special event, invitation only etc etc, and it was a bit embarrassing as we were the only customers in the showroom the whole time we were there.

We did buy (new) but the deal was no better than was available otherwise. The "special discount voucher" was discount off list. Maybe there are still people who pay list?

BMW Tamworth held a similar 'special' event last year for ///M enthusiasts, limited tickets to look/test drive the new M3/M4's.

Only, when everyone turned up management decided not to let anyone test drive them:

(reactions after event on page 8)
https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threads/m-roadshow-...


I think having a crowd mostly wearing joggers and baseball caps may have had something to do with it

[Camelot1971]

JaredVannett said:

BMW Tamworth held a similar 'special' event last year for ///M enthusiasts, limited tickets to look/test drive the new M3/M4's.

Only, when everyone turned up management decided not to let anyone test drive them:

(reactions after event on page 8)
https://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/threads/m-roadshow-...


I think having a crowd mostly wearing joggers and baseball caps may have had something to do with it

So many bullstters in that thread! "Yeah, I could have paid cash but they wanted to check my credit so I said don't bother" or the classic "could have put a new M3 on a couple of credit cards at 0% but didn't bother". It's worse than PH!

[anonymous-user]

The thing I don't get with salesman is the whole manipulation of the numbers. I hate the game. The excitement should be around the car not ruined by endless rubbish on the cost and the deal and the extras etc

I also hate the underhand tactics. Called a BMW dealer out for getting the details of my current car finance without my permission. Seemed it was how they work and no doubt to rip people off by having all the information then manipulating it.

Why can't you just make it easy. What price can you sell it for? Ok done deal. Rather than asking for all parts of the equation. (miles, monthlies and deposit - what do you want to pay)

Then the whole salesman good guy fighting the good fight for you against the sales manager. Yawn

[talksthetorque]

HTP99 said:

I think by and large the UK consumer can see it for the bull st that it actually is.

I'm thinking that there's enough of them who do sign up on the day to convince the marketing department that they don't, irrespective of whether they would have bought or not.
We do trade shows, (not motor trade) and always presell the stuff on the show.
a) Makes the customer think that if someone's bought it maybe we should have one to stay competitive.
b) Makes the show figures look good so we can rinse and repeat and all go to the same 3-10 day piss-up next year.

[Mexman]

euphoricmess said:

The thing I don't get with salesman is the whole manipulation of the numbers. I hate the game. The excitement should be around the car not ruined by endless rubbish on the cost and the deal and the extras etc

I also hate the underhand tactics. Called a BMW dealer out for getting the details of my current car finance without my permission. Seemed it was how they work and no doubt to rip people off by having all the information then manipulating it.

Why can't you just make it easy. What price can you sell it for? Ok done deal. Rather than asking for all parts of the equation. (miles, monthlies and deposit - what do you want to pay)

Then the whole salesman good guy fighting the good fight for you against the sales manager. Yawn

No two deals are the same though are they??
Fail to understand your logic or thinking here.

[anonymous-user]

Mexman said:

No two deals are the same though are they??
Fail to understand your logic or thinking here.

On which bit?

Amount of times I've spoke to dealers and said, deal to be done, tell me the best price you can do based on some conditions (PCP so mileage and deposit) and they always come back with "and how much do you want to pay"

Just go back find the best deal and if it fits we shake hands if it doesn't we walk away. It's that simple.

Instead they play the dance which takes away from excitement of buying a car and makes it s game you never feel you win.

Cut the game and just get to the deal they will sell the car for.

[Earthdweller]

euphoricmess said:

Mexman said:

No two deals are the same though are they??
Fail to understand your logic or thinking here.

On which bit?

Amount of times I've spoke to dealers and said, deal to be done, tell me the best price you can do based on some conditions (PCP so mileage and deposit) and they always come back with "and how much do you want to pay"

Just go back find the best deal and if it fits we shake hands if it doesn't we walk away. It's that simple.

Instead they play the dance which takes away from excitement of buying a car and makes it s game you never feel you win.

Cut the game and just get to the deal they will sell the car for.

I agree .. I hate it

Just be open and honest, all the subterfuge and pissing about drives me crazy

It’s piss easy

1. best price
2. Best finance rate
3. Honest valuation of px

It’s not the 1970’s anymore just be straight

[anonymous-user]

The VIP events that the dealer I used to work for always made me laugh, in a similar vein to prospecting evenings. Utter waste of time. Likewise the “Good News” events where an outside company would be brought in to train you into pretending you didn’t know what was going on so the customer would have to come in to find out. You’d phone up a customer and offer them a special invite but couldn’t tell them what it was about. Comical. The customers from the database had been prospected to death anyway so invariably nothing would result. I worked out that in the six years I worked there, certain customers would have been prospected by 13 different, new, sales “executives”. In addition to certain grasping, greedy salesman having a go in someone else’s diary. (Unrelated to this, people leaving the business of a staff of approximately 35, totalled 63, in six years).

The whole industry is filled the vacuous, the inane, the meretricious, the deceitful, the ignorant and they’re the people I actually like. The successful are those that can be all of those, and yet have people like them.

Can’t say I miss it!

[Wooda80]

euphoricmess said:

Amount of times I've spoke to dealers and said, deal to be done, tell me the best price you can do based on some conditions (PCP so mileage and deposit) and they always come back with "and how much do you want to pay"

I'll try and explain the reasons for this:

First is to establish your commitment that you would place an order if we could meet your terms

Secondly, lets say my standard discounted price and finance scheme give a monthly payment for your parameters of £425pm. If I know that your budget is £400pm I'll consider what I can do in terms of extra discount, enhanced part exchange price and alternative finance scheme I can use to achieve your target figure. On the other hand, if your target price is £300pm month then I know that there is no point in agonising over the last £10-15pm in the deal and we need to look at a different car.

As ever, with any kind of negotiation it works best when both sides have a clear idea what the other would like to achieve rather than the customer saying "Guess what number I'm thinking of".

ETA - if the customer and the salesperson have established a good relationship in terms of mutual trust and understanding then this bit is natural and effortless. If they haven't, then this bit isn't!

Edited by Wooda80 on Sunday 10th February 16:44

[Wooda80]

Earthdweller said:

I agree .. I hate it

Just be open and honest, all the subterfuge and pissing about drives me crazy

It’s piss easy

1. best price
2. Best finance rate
3. Honest valuation of px

It’s not the 1970’s anymore just be straight

I understand why you would need to know each of those parameters in order to decide whether or not you felt the deal was acceptable

However, to the overwhelming majority of customers it would mean nothing without them knowing how much they would be required to pay per month.

If the offer is transparent and complete then you will be able to clearly see each of the items you list, along with the monthly payment.

[anonymous-user]

Wooda80 said:

I'll try and explain the reasons for this:

First is to establish your commitment that you would place an order if we could meet your terms

Secondly, lets say my standard discounted price and finance scheme give a monthly payment for your parameters of £425pm. If I know that your budget is £400pm I'll consider what I can do in terms of extra discount, enhanced part exchange price and alternative finance scheme I can use to achieve your target figure. On the other hand, if your target price is £300pm month then I know that there is no point in agonising over the last £10-15pm in the deal and we need to look at a different car.

As ever, with any kind of negotiation it works best when both sides have a clear idea what the other would like to achieve rather than the customer saying "Guess what number I'm thinking of".

ETA - if the customer and the salesperson have established a good relationship in terms of mutual trust and understanding then this bit is natural and effortless. If they haven't, then this bit isn't!

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 10th February 16:44

I'd argue turning up at the showroom shows a decent level of intent that deserves some work from the salesperson to then sell a car.

If you come back with £400pcm and I expected £300pcm then the deals dead in the water isn't it. You could also prime by giving the average monthly based on deposit. A rough ball park figure pre which can give an idea of customers intent.

I've walked from deals because I've just found the game disingenuous and not the position you should be in when agreeing a finance deal.