Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
Pommy said:
That's not what you said for the part above.
Your point was police, nurses, fireman etc could just rock up and be in car sales - this is categorically untrue.
Being skilled at one job doesn't make you automatically able to do another just because your job is trained in a particular field.
It isn't untrue.Your point was police, nurses, fireman etc could just rock up and be in car sales - this is categorically untrue.
Being skilled at one job doesn't make you automatically able to do another just because your job is trained in a particular field.
Police/ nurse/ fireman could move into car sales without any formal qualifications and start selling cars immediately.
Before they are let loose on the general public, police/ nurse/ fireman undergo extensive, recognised, formal training with many examinations to pass which leads to being registered/ accredited/ etc. in their field.
Therefore, without extensive training the car salesman cannot be a police officer, nurse or firefighter.
This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Are you in car sales ?
Red 4 said:
It isn't untrue.
Police/ nurse/ fireman could move into car sales without any formal qualifications and start selling cars immediately.
Before they are let loose on the general public, police/ nurse/ fireman undergo extensive, recognised, formal training with many examinations to pass which leads to being registered/ accredited/ etc. in their field.
Therefore, without extensive training the car salesman cannot be a police officer, nurse or firefighter.
This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Are you in car sales ?
Are police officers or fire fighters really considered professionals? I am not sure. Doing some training doesn't make you a professional. A plasterer isn't a professional, yet I can't plaster and couldn't become one tomorrow. Skilled does not equal professional. Police/ nurse/ fireman could move into car sales without any formal qualifications and start selling cars immediately.
Before they are let loose on the general public, police/ nurse/ fireman undergo extensive, recognised, formal training with many examinations to pass which leads to being registered/ accredited/ etc. in their field.
Therefore, without extensive training the car salesman cannot be a police officer, nurse or firefighter.
This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Are you in car sales ?
Butter Face said:
On the same hand, I could put out a fire or apply a plaster, I’ve had no training to be a fireman or a nurse.
Either could come and sell cars, could they sell 300 a year including all of the associated kerfuffle, unlikely.
You’re getting tied up on semantics of ‘professional’ IMO.
You could probably diagnose yourself as having a cold.Either could come and sell cars, could they sell 300 a year including all of the associated kerfuffle, unlikely.
You’re getting tied up on semantics of ‘professional’ IMO.
That doesn't make you a Doctor.
I'm just saying what occupations are generally recognised as professions.
Car sales isn't one of them.
It is possible to be professional (ie take pride in your job, do it as well as you can etc) with out being a professional (ie have recognised/standardised training). In fact it is possible to have recognised standardised training (eg city and guilds/ Part P certs etc) without being a recognised professional. That said the list of professionals who can for example, witness true likeness for a passport photo, is arbitrary and random, eg chartered accountant but not chartered engineer. In its most basic sense a professional is someone who makes money/a living from their job.
And having an FCA qualification doesn't make you a car sales man, it makes you a loan salesman...sorry! Other FCA qualifications are also available.
And having an FCA qualification doesn't make you a car sales man, it makes you a loan salesman...sorry! Other FCA qualifications are also available.
Red 4 said:
Pommy said:
That's not what you said for the part above.
Your point was police, nurses, fireman etc could just rock up and be in car sales - this is categorically untrue.
Being skilled at one job doesn't make you automatically able to do another just because your job is trained in a particular field.
It isn't untrue.Your point was police, nurses, fireman etc could just rock up and be in car sales - this is categorically untrue.
Being skilled at one job doesn't make you automatically able to do another just because your job is trained in a particular field.
Police/ nurse/ fireman could move into car sales without any formal qualifications and start selling cars immediately.
Before they are let loose on the general public, police/ nurse/ fireman undergo extensive, recognised, formal training with many examinations to pass which leads to being registered/ accredited/ etc. in their field.
Therefore, without extensive training the car salesman cannot be a police officer, nurse or firefighter.
This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Are you in car sales ?
They couldn't sell cars straight away, they might turn up and inhabit a showroom but they might not have a personality that could actually have them selling. Anyone can put on a suit, breathe and talk but doesn't mean they'll be functional at the Job
No I'm not. I couldn't do it.
Red 4 said:
Butter Face said:
On the same hand, I could put out a fire or apply a plaster, I’ve had no training to be a fireman or a nurse.
Either could come and sell cars, could they sell 300 a year including all of the associated kerfuffle, unlikely.
You’re getting tied up on semantics of ‘professional’ IMO.
You could probably diagnose yourself as having a cold.Either could come and sell cars, could they sell 300 a year including all of the associated kerfuffle, unlikely.
You’re getting tied up on semantics of ‘professional’ IMO.
That doesn't make you a Doctor.
I'm just saying what occupations are generally recognised as professions.
Car sales isn't one of them.
Pommy said:
I get the concept of what you've convinced yourself but you still don't get it.
They couldn't sell cars straight away, they might turn up and inhabit a showroom but they might not have a personality that could actually have them selling. Anyone can put on a suit, breathe and talk but doesn't mean they'll be functional at the Job
No I'm not. I couldn't do it.
No. You don't get it.They couldn't sell cars straight away, they might turn up and inhabit a showroom but they might not have a personality that could actually have them selling. Anyone can put on a suit, breathe and talk but doesn't mean they'll be functional at the Job
No I'm not. I couldn't do it.
Anyone can sell cars. You don't need any formal qualifications. Ergo, it isn't a profession.
That doesn't mean anyone can sell cars and be good at it.
Butter Face said:
On the same hand, I could put out a fire or apply a plaster, I’ve had no training to be a fireman or a nurse.
Either could come and sell cars, could they sell 300 a year including all of the associated kerfuffle, unlikely.
You’re getting tied up on semantics of ‘professional’ IMO.
Applying a plaster does not a nurse make .. Either could come and sell cars, could they sell 300 a year including all of the associated kerfuffle, unlikely.
You’re getting tied up on semantics of ‘professional’ IMO.
My wife is a Nurse, a very highly trained and very skilled individual who ran one of the world’s most specialised and prestigious orthopaedic intensive care units dealing with major trauma and spinal injuries
In fact she was headhunted to go and work in the intensive care unit in Afghanistan and offered a commission. However she fell pregnant and didn’t go
Equally putting out a fire does not a fireman make ..
do you know about Hazmat and chemical reactions .. emergency life support and casualty extraction amongst other things
Sales is sales .. it’s a skill some have it some don’t
However, because you can sell something does not equip you for a highly skilled and specialist role
Red 4 said:
Pommy said:
I get the concept of what you've convinced yourself but you still don't get it.
They couldn't sell cars straight away, they might turn up and inhabit a showroom but they might not have a personality that could actually have them selling. Anyone can put on a suit, breathe and talk but doesn't mean they'll be functional at the Job
No I'm not. I couldn't do it.
No. You don't get it.They couldn't sell cars straight away, they might turn up and inhabit a showroom but they might not have a personality that could actually have them selling. Anyone can put on a suit, breathe and talk but doesn't mean they'll be functional at the Job
No I'm not. I couldn't do it.
Anyone can sell cars. You don't need any formal qualifications. Ergo, it isn't a profession.
That doesn't mean anyone can sell cars and be good at it.
What I disagree and keep referring to is your assertion is anyone can rock up and do it. That's not true.
Integroo said:
Red 4 said:
It isn't untrue.
Police/ nurse/ fireman could move into car sales without any formal qualifications and start selling cars immediately.
Before they are let loose on the general public, police/ nurse/ fireman undergo extensive, recognised, formal training with many examinations to pass which leads to being registered/ accredited/ etc. in their field.
Therefore, without extensive training the car salesman cannot be a police officer, nurse or firefighter.
This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Are you in car sales ?
Are police officers or fire fighters really considered professionals? I am not sure. Doing some training doesn't make you a professional. A plasterer isn't a professional, yet I can't plaster and couldn't become one tomorrow. Skilled does not equal professional. Police/ nurse/ fireman could move into car sales without any formal qualifications and start selling cars immediately.
Before they are let loose on the general public, police/ nurse/ fireman undergo extensive, recognised, formal training with many examinations to pass which leads to being registered/ accredited/ etc. in their field.
Therefore, without extensive training the car salesman cannot be a police officer, nurse or firefighter.
This isn't a difficult concept to grasp. Are you in car sales ?
What about being an artist; what makes an artist? Skill, qualifications, training, can anyone become one or is there an academic barrier or a talent barrier? What about a footballer?
I have a degree, MSc and am a member of a chartered institute in my field, i wouldn't class myself as a professional like a Lawyer or Doctor.
All in all we should be grateful for the flexibility the job market offers us in the UK, when i was in Germany you get pigeonholed from Day 1 and it was very rare to meet anyway who changed profession! (Although i knew of an ex-fighter pilot who drove a school bus as his wife wanted him out of the house
).Butter Face said:
You are of course correct, but because ‘anyone’ can do it, doesn’t mean that anyone can. Can we agree on that?
Anyone can set themselves up in car sales, on the other hand anyone setting up their own doctors surgery without the relevant bits of paper would find themselves in legal do-do. The fact they can (legally) do one and not the other doesn't say anything about whether they'd be any good at either.Butter Face said:
You are of course correct, but because ‘anyone’ can do it, doesn’t mean that anyone can. Can we agree on that?
Anyone can do it. Anyone is allowed to do it.Whether they will be any good at it is another matter.
Earthdweller makes a good point about nurses and firefighters.
I think you underestimate the amount of knowledge and training that true professions undertake.
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