Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
Davislove said:
Question for OP or anyone else:
All other things being equal....what formula or price consideration is given by dealers to used cars loaded with expensive options? i.e is there much retained value in big options like carbon brakes or big stereos?
It makes them easier to sell than an otherwise similar car without those options. Additional monetary value? F**k all. All other things being equal....what formula or price consideration is given by dealers to used cars loaded with expensive options? i.e is there much retained value in big options like carbon brakes or big stereos?
A car may have all the options ticked. But then be green, burgundy or dark blue, undoing all that.
No set formula as such, the guides all state that to command guide value it should reasonably have certain options fitted and a downward adjustment is down to the judgement of the person valuing the vehicle.
It's retail sales. A trade. That's why it's called the motor trade. We buy commodities for one value and aim to sell them for a higher one.
One can conduct business with professionalism, whether a tradesperson or professional - in any field.
Butter Face said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Fast Bug said:
Mark Mullens formally of this parish ...
What happened to him? I liked his posts. Butter Face said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Butter Face said:
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Fast Bug said:
Mark Mullens formally of this parish ...
What happened to him? I liked his posts. 
Mexman said:
Finance is king. Nice commission earner for the dealer and the sales guy.
Cash?....Meh.
If you are not buying the car on finance, what is the alternative to cash?.....Chocolate buttons?
As regards how much discount, impossible to answer.
Why should you even get a discount?
Type of car, rare car, priced well, just in stock, phone melting with enquiries?
Cannot answer that question, no-one can.
Well, like i said in my post, its part of the reason that annoys me about phoning in advance, what business is it of theirs HOW im planning to pay. And to be fair, this only confirms what i said, that its clearly better to reach an agreed price BEFORE discussing how it will be paid, as oppose to letting the 'how are you planning to pay' be the driving force behind negotiationsCash?....Meh.
If you are not buying the car on finance, what is the alternative to cash?.....Chocolate buttons?
As regards how much discount, impossible to answer.
Why should you even get a discount?
Type of car, rare car, priced well, just in stock, phone melting with enquiries?
Cannot answer that question, no-one can.
Edited by Mexman on Wednesday 15th May 13:21
As for why should i get a discount? To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'. No i dont follow the whole 'its worth what your willing to pay for it', because thats a stupid way to view a investment lol
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
From your post though, what i've taken away is that, i should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
Edited by kelevraz on Wednesday 15th May 15:49
fido said:
Mexman, I put a deposit on a car last weekend. The dealer has contacted me to say their want payment of balance a day before i collect the car. I don’t think this is reasonable given that I have always paid by switch on the day and they already have a deposit. Is this another new sales fad/tactic?
We take a deposit, then balance of funds three clear working days before handover (or finance e-signed at time of handover, as proofs will have been checked at the underwriting stage). The company have done so for 47 years and have no plans to change. Having dealt int he past many times with card issues at the point of handover itself - no issue with funds being there or not (usually) - rather it is the daily card limits (often unknown to the customer as they don't routinely make transactions of that size in that manner) or security measures applied by the bank that delay things for at times hours and so on.
Not a fad or tactic, just sensible procedure really, actually amounts to a better level of customer service as despite such issues not being the dealer's fault, we are the ones who get slated for delayed handover on CSI questionnaires...
kelevraz said:
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
Get some GAP insurance then.But yeah, trade guides are guides, some cars sell well above the ‘values’ that the guides give. That’s just the way it is.
Pretty much any dealer won’t get to a price without knowing how you’re paying for it first, just be clear, tell them you want to buy something quickly, you’ve got the funds ready to transfer if the deal is right and be transparent, there’s no point being all smoke and daggers, it will just complicate the situation more than is needed.
Some dealers price a car and don’t negotiate, some do, some work of slim margins and lots of units, some have massive margins and sell few cars, there’s no set rules about pricing or discount etc.
booboise blueboys said:
Have you ever not wanted to sell a car to a customer?
Absolutely. Some of your best deals are the ones you didn't do...Paul Dishman said:
He worked for Specialist Cars of Malton, we never hear from his boss, Johnny Wishbone, now either. I do wonder why people just fall off the radar.
Probably doesn't wish to be remotely associated with the current incumbent and associated social media marketing strategy/efforts. Or certain ongoing legal disputes with some very unhappy customers.I wouldn't either, to be fair to him.
Edited by 4941cc on Wednesday 15th May 15:52
A car isn’t a investment unless it’s something rare. A car is a tool to drive around in.
Price is often lower if financed as the dealer gets a kickback bumping up the price and the salesmen make more so want to fight your side to get the price down. Cash deals with no add ons are barely worth the time/effort.
Was around £25 for a cash deal car but £200+ on a financed car with add ons as commission.
Price is often lower if financed as the dealer gets a kickback bumping up the price and the salesmen make more so want to fight your side to get the price down. Cash deals with no add ons are barely worth the time/effort.
Was around £25 for a cash deal car but £200+ on a financed car with add ons as commission.
kelevraz said:
Is it true that you should ALWAYS come to an agreement on price before discussing how it will be paid for?
Which you can't really on most new cars as they come with things like deposit contributions which will have the effect of reducing the balance funded, that aren't applicable to outright purchases. That's also the reason a bank loan low APR rate might be utterly irrelevant compared with either HP at a higher APR but in conjunction with a sizeable deposit contribution, or a PCP type arrangement. That's why a sensible sales exec or business manager should ask in addition to "cash or finance", if cash, then where is that coming from? Cash in savings, if so at what rate of return, simple or compounded, how easily accessible (great return, but five year bond vs. instant access for a lower rate).
Cash is so very seldom simply just cash sat in a current account ready to go. It's shares being sold, money coming from inheritance, house sale, all sorts that could potentially be put to better use.
Cash really isn't as simple as it seems, often there's much more to consider when spending it than simply what the APR rate you're borrowing at.
Your genuine buyers with the means readily available to to them have already done this aspect of weighing it up - they are a tiny minority of main dealer customers (this percentage will tend to increase the lower the average retail price of their stock), most are weighing up dealer finance vs. other sources of borrowing, but pitching it as cash as decades ago it might have meant something useful in negotiations.
kelevraz said:
Well, like i said in my post, its part of the reason that annoys me about phoning in advance, what business is it of theirs HOW im planning to pay. And to be fair, this only confirms what i said, that its clearly better to reach an agreed price BEFORE discussing how it will be paid, as oppose to letting the 'how are you planning to pay' be the driving force behind negotiations
As for why should i get a discount? To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'. No i dont follow the whole 'its worth what your willing to pay for it', because thats a stupid way to view a investment lol
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
From your post though, what i've taken away is that, i should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
You might be the answer to yesterday's question! As for why should i get a discount? To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'. No i dont follow the whole 'its worth what your willing to pay for it', because thats a stupid way to view a investment lol
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
From your post though, what i've taken away is that, i should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
Edited by kelevraz on Wednesday 15th May 15:49
booboise blueboys said:
Have you ever not wanted to sell a car to a customer?
kelevraz said:
Well, like i said in my post, its part of the reason that annoys me about phoning in advance, what business is it of theirs HOW im planning to pay. And to be fair, this only confirms what i said, that its clearly better to reach an agreed price BEFORE discussing how it will be paid, as oppose to letting the 'how are you planning to pay' be the driving force behind negotiations
As for why should i get a discount? To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'. No i dont follow the whole 'its worth what your willing to pay for it', because thats a stupid way to view a investment lol
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
From your post though, what i've taken away is that, i should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
I'm glad you have (Full) access to price guides. You'll be able to compare the sold prices at auction with the guide prices, quite a lot of nice stock is selling for a fair chunk past the guide price. This has a knock on effect to the retail pricing, if the buying price goes up, as does the sale price. And the guides are just that, a guide. It's not gospel, nor is it a bible. As for why should i get a discount? To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'. No i dont follow the whole 'its worth what your willing to pay for it', because thats a stupid way to view a investment lol
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
From your post though, what i've taken away is that, i should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
Edited by kelevraz on Wednesday 15th May 15:49
If the car is on Auto Trader, you can also see what date the car was advertised, so you can get a feel for how long the car has been for sale for. If it's fresh in to stock, then you know that you probably won't get a hefty discount, if it's been in stock for 88 days then you stand a chance unless it's been discounted already in an effort to get it gone.
SpeckledJim said:
kelevraz said:
To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'.
You might be the answer to yesterday's question! booboise blueboys said:
Have you ever not wanted to sell a car to a customer?
Insurer payout valuations are lower than retailer asking prices? Well there's a shock for anyone who has experienced an insurance company's offer.
It's in their interest to make that as low as possible, isn't it? Same is it a dealer's commercial interest to ask as much as possible.
A dealer can discount following negotiation, an insurer can pay more following it. Both work to their own guidelines and commercial interests, naturally.
Wouldn't it be fun if the guides did become gospel as such? Nobody would ever need to haggle at all, we'd all just accept what we were told, no quibble. That would be "fair", wouldn't it?
kelevraz said:
I should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car that's been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
And they definitely wouldn't have any incentive to be vague about this. Or if it got transferred to their site this week, having done 90 days at each of three other dealers in the same group - would they tell you it has just come in to us this week (technically true) or that it has been in stock, unsold for over a year? Again, glad to work in the leisure industry where we work in seasons, rather than months. We'll have caravans or motorhomes that may have been taken in in the 2016 season and taken a couple of annual seasonal adjustments since as a result. Quarterly at the very most if need be, but unlikely.
Monthly write-downs and 90/120/180 day stocking policies are a financial management nightmare and a driver of many of the practices despised by retail customers in the motor trade.
You might have two identical spec, mileage and colour vehicles on the forecourt at the same retail price - one was bought three months ago though and has since incurred prep costs, the other is fresh in. Which one would you rather sell? The fresh one with a little discount has a nice profit in it as it'll have been bought in for a lower price, but commerically you'll want the older one gone first.
That leads to the scenario where a dealer has broadly similar vehicles at different prices, customers invariably want the nice clean fresh condition stock, rather than the otherwise similar but cheaper asking price/more heavily/readily discountable one that's a bit grubbier by now, tyres and battery flat and so on.
Or when two competing dealers (within or outwith the same group) have similar stock at similar price but one is "keen to do a deal" and the other "couldn't be arsed" - they generally know they'll either be expected to pricematch the other one as they need it gone quicker.
All part of the fun and why there's never a quick, simple answer to "what's the best deal on X, Y or Z". So many contributing factors and variables to weigh up as a seller.
RazerSauber said:
these may have been answered in the last 300+ pages!
How long does it take you to figure out if a customer is buying or not?
Do nice people tend to get better prices or is it much of a muchness?
You can generally tell from the first conversation. Occasionally we are surprised as you can't always tell and th eminute you think you've got absolutely everyone sized up, is the minute the next person will show you up. The art comes in not giving away that you've mentally written a prospect off, however well-founded.How long does it take you to figure out if a customer is buying or not?
Do nice people tend to get better prices or is it much of a muchness?
Generally, the more aggro someone is before they've done a deal, they will be throughout the whole process and after handover. The easier and friendlier people are, the same holds true. Guess to whom we prefer to give the better deals and whom we prefer to make money from, to justify the additional effort?
It's human nature, reinforced by commercial experience...
Edited by 4941cc on Wednesday 15th May 16:50
kelevraz said:
Well, like i said in my post, its part of the reason that annoys me about phoning in advance, what business is it of theirs HOW im planning to pay. And to be fair, this only confirms what i said, that its clearly better to reach an agreed price BEFORE discussing how it will be paid, as oppose to letting the 'how are you planning to pay' be the driving force behind negotiations
As for why should i get a discount? To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'. No i dont follow the whole 'its worth what your willing to pay for it', because thats a stupid way to view a investment lol
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
From your post though, what i've taken away is that, i should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
Parker's guide maybe? ,As for why should i get a discount? To be fair, i have (Full) access to all the trading guides that insurers use when dealing with valuations, and i cant help but notice that most of the cars i see are priced at higher than these they are 'worth'. No i dont follow the whole 'its worth what your willing to pay for it', because thats a stupid way to view a investment lol
Maybe its because my car was nicked recently, but i don't fancy the idea of receiving 25% less for my car than i bought it for if its written off the second i drive away from the dealership, simply because ive paid more for the privilege of buying from a trader
From your post though, what i've taken away is that, i should be asking - how long have they had the car in stock for? As i imagine a car thats been sitting on the lot for 9 months probably ISNT getting enquiries left right and centre, compared to something they say has just come in
Edited by kelevraz on Wednesday 15th May 15:49
It's normal that the dealer expects to know how your paying for it.
Pull out a carrier bag full of £20 notes to the value of 10 grand, and he is not going to be best pleased.
Whip out your debit or credit card for that amount, and again, he isn't going to best pleased.
Bank transfer...Why thank you Sir.
Finance?...Rubs hands together in glee.
I would say it's every right of the dealer to know how you are paying for it !
Show your interest, find or ask how long it's been in stock, state how you wish to pay for it and ASK them what deal they can do for you, rather than going in all Bobby Big Balls with an offer 2k under.
That will just rile the salesperson into thinking your taking the piss, and expect it all for nothing.
Do you go to work to earn nothing?
Like Butterfaces said, try and play cloak and dagger with a experienced salesperson and you will lose...trust me, nobody likes a smartarse, especially a seasoned salesperson.
Oh, and do not even think about pulling your 'guide' out of your back pocket and playing that card, that is one sure fire way to royally piss a motor dealer off !
That's the only advise I can give you I'm afraid.
RazerSauber said:
these may have been answered in the last 300+ pages!
How long does it take you to figure out if a customer is buying or not?
Do nice people tend to get better prices or is it much of a muchness?
Yes, I often will give a little discount if the people are genuinely nice and I have gelled with them, even if they haven't asked for it !How long does it take you to figure out if a customer is buying or not?
Do nice people tend to get better prices or is it much of a muchness?
The smartarses who come in all brave with a ridiculous lowball offer, are normally told, the price is on the windscreen, buy it or don't buy it.
These kind of 'buyers' never end up buying anyway, because when you state the best you can do is £150 off, they think you are taking the piss because you haven't met there ridiculous demand or got anywhere near it because you can't.
90% of buyers will naturally ask for discount or best price and that then depends on what the car owes you, what you have spent on it, and the margin left in it, and if it is overage or approaching overage.
I very seldomly discount by more than £100/£150, but this is on used stock from £3k to 6k generally.
Edited by Mexman on Wednesday 15th May 17:06
Mexman said:
Yes, I often will give a little discount if the people are genuinely nice and I have gelled with them, even if they haven't asked for it !
The smartarses who come in all brave with a ridiculous lowball offer, are normally told, the price is on the windscreen, buy it or don't buy it.
These kind of 'buyers' never end up buying anyway, because when you state the best you can do is £150 off, they think you are taking the piss because you haven't met there ridiculous demand or got anywhere near it because you can't.
90% of buyers will naturally ask for discount or best price and that then depends on what the car owes you, what you have spent on it, and the margin left in it, and if it is overage or approaching overage.
I very seldomly discount by more than £100/£150, but this is on used stock from £3k to 6k generally.
+1 We do 2K - 8K used and this is EXACTLY how we act. The smartarses who come in all brave with a ridiculous lowball offer, are normally told, the price is on the windscreen, buy it or don't buy it.
These kind of 'buyers' never end up buying anyway, because when you state the best you can do is £150 off, they think you are taking the piss because you haven't met there ridiculous demand or got anywhere near it because you can't.
90% of buyers will naturally ask for discount or best price and that then depends on what the car owes you, what you have spent on it, and the margin left in it, and if it is overage or approaching overage.
I very seldomly discount by more than £100/£150, but this is on used stock from £3k to 6k generally.
Edited by Mexman on Wednesday 15th May 17:06
People often forget that everyday we're just trying to sell cars, we're not out to rip anyone off or make things any more complicated than they need to be. As for mind games...believe me, anyone running a used site is far too busy for that nonsense. Tactics? We've heard/seen them all.
Nice people get treated nicely...a small discount if they ask, or maybe a bit of paint that wouldn't normally be done or a bit extra on the service.
Knob heads get treated as they deserve and we wouldn't sell them a car anyway.
Also if a cars a real peach don't expect a discount...it's really hard to buy good stock. Want a discount? Best punt for a grey Jetta with Kesh.
Edited by grant8064 on Wednesday 15th May 19:01
Rewe said:
Have you ever felt so unsafe on a test drive that you made the customer pull over?
I've made quite a few pull over and let me drive them back. Occasionally report the odd one or two that really shouldn't be on the road (only if they've not bought!) Only ever left one complete c**k stranded at the side of the road mid test drive. Did 55 in a 20 outside a school at 3:15pm which was the final straw. He also got a speeding fine on the same test drive we forwarded on a couple of weeks later...
Edited by grant8064 on Wednesday 15th May 19:02
Simonium said:
I’m happy to be corrected. However unless it’s an Amex amount, there is still no good grounds for refusing card transactions. If your business model needs that percentage to remain profitable, it’s not a very good model. Also I do apologise for remembering all the way back to December 2018.
What you actually said was"Charges for debit cards are mere pence - i remember something about 45p per transaction,"
That is completely nonsense, instead of trying to be clever and failing miserably it would be best if you got your facts right. Also this has been happening since well before December 2018 so you should know better, consider yourself corrected.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff