Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
blank said:
I'm not sure there is anything specifically preventing the sale of armoured cars to members of the public in the UK.
Brightwells had a Ferret last time I was there! http://classiccars.brightwells.com/viewdetails.php...The Mad Monk said:
Toyoda said:
Are these cheeky chappies typical of the independent dealer genre?
https://youtu.be/qEMWsEfJhdo?t=312
What did they say?https://youtu.be/qEMWsEfJhdo?t=312
Wooda80 said:
mylesmcd said:
I am sure there is a flow chart somewhere for it.
As this gent was supplying the UK Government, part of his contract would almost certainly be protection detail and the right to drive a bomb proof car etc etc
It is the same as all the DUP, high rank army and Police over there, but it is a 'special case'
"I wanted a test drive in an armoured E-Class but imagine my disappointment when I got there to find that the sales manager had taken it home for the weekend and they could only offer me a quick spin round the block in a bulletproof S-class"
Stuff that might be deemed offensive modifications or would be fitted to police cars (like blue lights) not allowed.
silentbrown said:
Brightwells had a Ferret last time I was there! http://classiccars.brightwells.com/viewdetails.php...
We can do quite a bit better than that around herehttps://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/great...
Guy who owns it has a small collection and lives in a terraced house with no off road parking. A few years ago this, or one like it ( same colour, these modern tanks all look the same to me - no character, tsk ) was parked around the corner on a more main road and someone wrote themselves off by crashing into it so maybe it's better off parked on the pavement.
A few hundred yards away there's a big scary old house with a Ferret and a Judge Dredd Landrover parked outside.
thebigmacmoomin said:
Just curious .... how do you value a modified car that comes in for a part-ex? Say a max power style Corsa for example.
Im not connected in the trade but as a layman Id say look at bottom book value for an unmolested version then take another huge chunk off that - very limited buyers and dealer would be stuck with it or just honk it off to market. Ive even heard some dealers \ traders refusing cars due to the modifications \ low value \ limited potential buyer pool.OscarIndia said:
thebigmacmoomin said:
Just curious .... how do you value a modified car that comes in for a part-ex? Say a max power style Corsa for example.
Low!
te, he asked my what we would do with it (the bodykit) if we took it in as a part ex "remove it and chuck it in the bin" was my response, he looked utterly dejected!!A few months back i took an immaculate mk6 fiesta at in. Mountuned kit with all the right bits on. It was a gem.......had to trade it as our standards meant fitting standard exhaust, intake ancillaries etc.....shame. so yeah modified cars. Strip them back to standard then px or you'll lose thousands.
Wooda80 said:
mylesmcd said:
I am sure there is a flow chart somewhere for it.
As this gent was supplying the UK Government, part of his contract would almost certainly be protection detail and the right to drive a bomb proof car etc etc
It is the same as all the DUP, high rank army and Police over there, but it is a 'special case'
"I wanted a test drive in an armoured E-Class but imagine my disappointment when I got there to find that the sales manager had taken it home for the weekend and they could only offer me a quick spin round the block in a bulletproof S-class"
HTP99 said:
OscarIndia said:
thebigmacmoomin said:
Just curious .... how do you value a modified car that comes in for a part-ex? Say a max power style Corsa for example.
Low!te, he asked my what we would do with it (the bodykit) if we took it in as a part ex "remove it and chuck it in the bin" was my response, he looked utterly dejected!!Wooda80 said:
Could it be that as part of his contract he was supplied with a bomb proof car? Rather than him having to go and bug the local dealer for a test drive in one, and get PCP figures?
"I wanted a test drive in an armoured E-Class but imagine my disappointment when I got there to find that the sales manager had taken it home for the weekend and they could only offer me a quick spin round the block in a bulletproof S-class"
"I wanted a test drive in an armoured E-Class but imagine my disappointment when I got there to find that the sales manager had taken it home for the weekend and they could only offer me a quick spin round the block in a bulletproof S-class"
Earthdweller said:
4941cc said:
QuartzDad said:
Earthdweller said:
I’m surprised that is being offered for sale in the UK, if it’s fully ballistically protected then they are normally offered for sale only outside the EU as not being allowed to be sold to individuals in the EU
Bold bit - why is it banned?There are exceptions to some HNW individuals/companies and other govts etc
But, in general you don’t want Wayne the drug dealer enforcing his patch in a ballistically protected vehicle
FWIW for the very few that we have supplied for use in the UK I have refused to sell 3 times. Twice due to being threatened and the other was after a visit from 2 gentleman from SOCA
mylesmcd said:
I refuse them if they are engine modified. Slight bodywork and wheels are ok, but anything engine wise I have to sell on isnt worth it.
Was gonna say why not keep some of the styling, 18 year old me would have been all over it as I was any kind of punto/Corsa that wasn’t totally standard. Btw I don’t mean stupid body kits, with Cracked basking shark holes where they’d dragged it off a kerb!Looking at those used car dealers that bolt after market stuff onto BMWs they seem to be doing a roaring trade, so there is clearly a market for slightly modified cars.
Si1295 said:
Wayne the drug dealer can buy an armoured car just like anybody else over here. There are no laws prohibiting sale in the UK, yet there is for selling abroad if the vehicle is considered "dual purpose" i.e weighs a certain amount, has a specific level of armouring and is 4x4.
FWIW for the very few that we have supplied for use in the UK I have refused to sell 3 times. Twice due to being threatened and the other was after a visit from 2 gentleman from SOCA
Sounds interesting... more detail required!FWIW for the very few that we have supplied for use in the UK I have refused to sell 3 times. Twice due to being threatened and the other was after a visit from 2 gentleman from SOCA
brightonpad said:
Hilts said:
Thanks Mexman for a good pragmatic answer, I sort of thought this would be the case judging by the amount of threads on these forums with posts about how I've just bought car X from Y Motors and I want a refund because of...insert niggles here.
Looks like you're in a good spot for picking up some decent part-ex's. Do you work out some deal with the dealership or is it just the stuff they don't want?
I still like the idea of a classic car dealership even though I have zero car trade experience. I'm guessing there would be better mechanically knowledgeable customers who know what they want and who may well forgive small issues that they can repair themselves. Not sure if just a dealership is viable on its own without a restoration workshop or at least a paintshop/garage.
I think I may have been looking at too many dealer adverts in Octane and Classic Cars while sitting on the throne.
I have done what you describe.... after 15 years or so of selling interesting cars part time (legally!), I left my full time job in Engineering to go full time, about 18 months ago.Looks like you're in a good spot for picking up some decent part-ex's. Do you work out some deal with the dealership or is it just the stuff they don't want?
I still like the idea of a classic car dealership even though I have zero car trade experience. I'm guessing there would be better mechanically knowledgeable customers who know what they want and who may well forgive small issues that they can repair themselves. Not sure if just a dealership is viable on its own without a restoration workshop or at least a paintshop/garage.
I think I may have been looking at too many dealer adverts in Octane and Classic Cars while sitting on the throne.
I’m fully self funded with no banks or investors, I started with about 60k of which half I kept for start up costs (branding, website, insurance, warranty booklets etc.) and for my own personal income for a few months so I didn’t take any money out of the business to start with.
That left about 30k for stock, we started with about 4 units with a view to growing to 8 by the end of the year. However, stock rotation was generally measured in months rather than weeks - I hadn’t anticipated that in my financial planning and it soon became clear that in order to sustain a similar living that I’d been used to before, I’d need a lot more stock than I thought.
Right now, I don’t feel confident enough in the market to invest the additional money to get to 12-15 cars which is probably where I need to be. Fortunately I have also developed an Engineering Consultancy business over the last year and frankly, that pays the bills and the intention is to use profits from that to slowly increase the stock.
If I didn’t have that to fall back on, I’d have folded it all up within a year... so the car business plods along and washes its face, but it will be a very long time until it can be relied upon as a single source of income, if ever.
I have learnt a lot and still have a lot to learn... it’s been very enjoyable despite some setbacks and frustrations but unless you have a fair chunk behind you and are prepared to not make a great living to start with, proceed with extreme caution!
Hope this has been helpful and happy to fill in any detail..
James_33 said:
I read somewhere that on PCP deals or lease etc that the dealer doesn't even check whether you can afford the car or not but that they just check whether your credit report is acceptable not, surely that's not true?
You can read all kinds of stuff somewhere!You'll be pleased to know that it's not up to the dealer to decide whether or not to lend you the money, it's up to the finance company. Even if these companies bear the name of the car maker they are run as financial services companies and use the same checking and underwriting processes as the companies that approve you for a credit card, personal loan, HP agreement, mortgage etc.
It's not in their interests to have an agreement go into default. Even if they end up getting the car back, the value of the car is unlikely to cover the total of the outstanding debt plus debt recovery, court and repossession charges. Additionally they have obligations under the FCA regulations to lend responsibly and check affordability of repayments.
This can be done explicitly when needed, by asking for proof of income, but can also be done implicitly by building a picture from the other information that you give. For example, they'll have an idea of what you are likely to be earning from your stated occupation, but also from your address or postcode, and from the other activity on your credit file. It's more sophisticated than that so yes, I know you can be living on benefits in a bought and paid for mansion or earning a solid six figures and living in a bedsit in Hull, but they can profile us just like the insurance companies do.
Additionally, the underwriters will take the view that if you have good credit history then you are unlikely to enter into a commitment that you cannot meet. And that's the key point: whilst it's in everybody's interest for the finance company to check it's ultimate the borrowers responsibility to make sure they can afford it. That's why they aren't allowed to lend you money until you are an adult.
So in terms of what you read somewhere, it's not the dealer's business to check you can afford it but it is the finance companies and you can be sure that they do, even if they don't ask you explicitly to prove it.
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