Ask a car salesman anything...anything at all.
Discussion
slk 32 said:
The Sunbury one is down the road from me, dread to think what it costs!
https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/sytner-group-propert...
And I suppose people will be going in there and buying Land Rovers, despite - well, despite everything I have tried to tell them?https://www.sytner.co.uk/news/sytner-group-propert...
jamoor said:
Oh sorry I’m talking exclusively about new cars and franchised dealers only. (I thought that would be obvious)
This has been done before, but assuming you took the new dealers out of the loop and dealt directly with the manufacturer there would be no haggling on price, the cars would be more expensive and manufacturers (I can say this having worked for one) have no idea on how to sell a car or what the customer actually wants.Oh and you would be amazed at what they think is acceptable as a pdi as well sometimes!
Fast Bug said:
jamoor said:
Oh sorry I’m talking exclusively about new cars and franchised dealers only. (I thought that would be obvious)
This has been done before, but assuming you took the new dealers out of the loop and dealt directly with the manufacturer there would be no haggling on price, the cars would be more expensive and manufacturers (I can say this having worked for one) have no idea on how to sell a car or what the customer actually wants.Oh and you would be amazed at what they think is acceptable as a pdi as well sometimes!
DuraAce said:
Withdrawing from /cancelling a used car sale prior to collection...
Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
We try and fight a bit but ultimately if pushed we will return a deposit. Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
Not often.
I wouldn't have thought that a sale could be "forced through", deposit kept yes.
HTP99 said:
DuraAce said:
Withdrawing from /cancelling a used car sale prior to collection...
Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
We try and fight a bit but ultimately if pushed we will return a deposit. Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
Not often.
I wouldn't have thought that a sale could be "forced through", deposit kept yes.
Don't give them a deposit.
The Mad Monk said:
HTP99 said:
DuraAce said:
Withdrawing from /cancelling a used car sale prior to collection...
Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
We try and fight a bit but ultimately if pushed we will return a deposit. Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
Not often.
I wouldn't have thought that a sale could be "forced through", deposit kept yes.
Don't give them a deposit.
The Mad Monk said:
The obvious conclusion to draw is....
SDon't give them a deposit.
My son had this only a couple of weeks ago.... guy first emails to enquire about an low mileage E46 M3 backwards & forwards all of which were replied then a phone call saying he would view the car the following weekend,my son made it clear he couldn't take the car off sale without a deposit but would refund it if he found anything of concern.... NO was the reply you'll still have Saturday... and guess what a enquiry and similar conversation two days later to which a deposit was taken when my son politely rang the first customer to inform him,total verbal abuse fSDon't give them a deposit.
king hell "YOU should have rang him FIRST"blah blah blah.... totally unnecessary he's only doing his job....Fast Bug said:
jamoor said:
Oh sorry I’m talking exclusively about new cars and franchised dealers only. (I thought that would be obvious)
This has been done before, but assuming you took the new dealers out of the loop and dealt directly with the manufacturer there would be no haggling on price, the cars would be more expensive and manufacturers (I can say this having worked for one) have no idea on how to sell a car or what the customer actually wants.Oh and you would be amazed at what they think is acceptable as a pdi as well sometimes!
Consumers these days look online and pretty much know what they want.
Why would the cars be more expensive they will either be cheaper or better value as there is no middleman overheads to pay.
I have been looking at nearly new V60's recently, just looking for something comfortable with a great stereo, my SO is fairly inflexible to colours and options and I think the chances of us finding a sub 1 year in the right spec is about zero.
Would my local volvo dealership be able to see how many of a certain spec have been produced? I think as we are looking for one with basically all the options ticked it would be an ex demo car, which I am fine with as our current V40 was a well optioned ex demo.
Would my local volvo dealership be able to see how many of a certain spec have been produced? I think as we are looking for one with basically all the options ticked it would be an ex demo car, which I am fine with as our current V40 was a well optioned ex demo.
jamoor said:
Fast Bug said:
jamoor said:
Oh sorry I’m talking exclusively about new cars and franchised dealers only. (I thought that would be obvious)
This has been done before, but assuming you took the new dealers out of the loop and dealt directly with the manufacturer there would be no haggling on price, the cars would be more expensive and manufacturers (I can say this having worked for one) have no idea on how to sell a car or what the customer actually wants.Oh and you would be amazed at what they think is acceptable as a pdi as well sometimes!
Consumers these days look online and pretty much know what they want.
Why would the cars be more expensive they will either be cheaper or better value as there is no middleman overheads to pay.
You'd be naïve if you think that the price would come down of new vehicles if the manufacturer handled the whole process, it would become an additional revenue stream for them.
You seem like a savvy online buyer, so should be familiar with leasing. Do you think these lease deals make the dealers money? The likes of Arval et al all have agreements in place where they take more dealer margin than the dealer gets from the manufacturer, and that's just for a standard lease deal. When the silly deals come out, that's the dealer digging deep and putting silly money behind the scenes as they've been given a large target to hit. It's all about volume, we do deals that our manufacturer won't do in order to hit a number they've set us. This would stop and have a knock on effect in the used market as well, so those cheaper 12 month old ex rentals would have an uplift in their pricing new which would follow on to used.
Will their be more online sales? Of course there will, I don't think anyone thinks that their won't be. Will the manufacturer supply them directly? Nope, they'll push them through the dealer network. Brokers? Supplied by the dealer network, manufacturers on the whole hate brokers but see them as a necessary evil.
All the talk about "rip off dealers" etc and them adding no value.
They do add value, but not sure they add value to the customer - certainly to the brand.
IE a good dealer will make the brand name stronger / better so punters are more likely to buy.
I guess if they are good with sales figures then they are able to secure better discounts so that may help your end user.
If dealers effectively "drop shipped" cars from factory to end user , and PDI checked it at point of manufacture and a small unit effectively with a few admin person to handle new car registrations , service bookings etc and a couple of mechanics , I do wonder how much cheaper (if any) cars would be.
They do add value, but not sure they add value to the customer - certainly to the brand.
IE a good dealer will make the brand name stronger / better so punters are more likely to buy.
I guess if they are good with sales figures then they are able to secure better discounts so that may help your end user.
If dealers effectively "drop shipped" cars from factory to end user , and PDI checked it at point of manufacture and a small unit effectively with a few admin person to handle new car registrations , service bookings etc and a couple of mechanics , I do wonder how much cheaper (if any) cars would be.
xjay1337 said:
All the talk about "rip off dealers" etc and them adding no value.
They do add value, but not sure they add value to the customer - certainly to the brand.
IE a good dealer will make the brand name stronger / better so punters are more likely to buy.
I guess if they are good with sales figures then they are able to secure better discounts so that may help your end user.
If dealers effectively "drop shipped" cars from factory to end user , and PDI checked it at point of manufacture and a small unit effectively with a few admin person to handle new car registrations , service bookings etc and a couple of mechanics , I do wonder how much cheaper (if any) cars would be.
You've literally described Teslas business model.They do add value, but not sure they add value to the customer - certainly to the brand.
IE a good dealer will make the brand name stronger / better so punters are more likely to buy.
I guess if they are good with sales figures then they are able to secure better discounts so that may help your end user.
If dealers effectively "drop shipped" cars from factory to end user , and PDI checked it at point of manufacture and a small unit effectively with a few admin person to handle new car registrations , service bookings etc and a couple of mechanics , I do wonder how much cheaper (if any) cars would be.
Which has the strongest car brand in the market today? Tesla or its competitors?
Fast Bug said:
Pretty sure every country have dealers that aren't run by the manufacturer if that's what you mean by 1980's thinking?
You'd be naïve if you think that the price would come down of new vehicles if the manufacturer handled the whole process, it would become an additional revenue stream for them.
You seem like a savvy online buyer, so should be familiar with leasing. Do you think these lease deals make the dealers money? The likes of Arval et al all have agreements in place where they take more dealer margin than the dealer gets from the manufacturer, and that's just for a standard lease deal. When the silly deals come out, that's the dealer digging deep and putting silly money behind the scenes as they've been given a large target to hit. It's all about volume, we do deals that our manufacturer won't do in order to hit a number they've set us. This would stop and have a knock on effect in the used market as well, so those cheaper 12 month old ex rentals would have an uplift in their pricing new which would follow on to used.
Will their be more online sales? Of course there will, I don't think anyone thinks that their won't be. Will the manufacturer supply them directly? Nope, they'll push them through the dealer network. Brokers? Supplied by the dealer network, manufacturers on the whole hate brokers but see them as a necessary evil.
Tesla don't have dealers and I am 99% sure that if/when we see Chinese manufacturers decide to enter the UK they will not have dealers either.You'd be naïve if you think that the price would come down of new vehicles if the manufacturer handled the whole process, it would become an additional revenue stream for them.
You seem like a savvy online buyer, so should be familiar with leasing. Do you think these lease deals make the dealers money? The likes of Arval et al all have agreements in place where they take more dealer margin than the dealer gets from the manufacturer, and that's just for a standard lease deal. When the silly deals come out, that's the dealer digging deep and putting silly money behind the scenes as they've been given a large target to hit. It's all about volume, we do deals that our manufacturer won't do in order to hit a number they've set us. This would stop and have a knock on effect in the used market as well, so those cheaper 12 month old ex rentals would have an uplift in their pricing new which would follow on to used.
Will their be more online sales? Of course there will, I don't think anyone thinks that their won't be. Will the manufacturer supply them directly? Nope, they'll push them through the dealer network. Brokers? Supplied by the dealer network, manufacturers on the whole hate brokers but see them as a necessary evil.
For the lease and finance sales, does the dealer get comission for a lease/finance?
Targets are 1980s thinking, as this flters down to the customer and gives them a bad experience. A desperate dealer desperate to hit sales targets is then desperate to sell them on at any cost which impacts residuals (suddenly a 30k retail car is being sold for 20k) or pressures the dealer to sell cars which is done by pressuring the customer to buy them.
The manufacturer having an additional stream of revenue? I'd rather have that as the money can be spend on R&D of cars rather than wasted on overheads.
jamoor said:
Tesla don't have dealers and I am 99% sure that if/when we see Chinese manufacturers decide to enter the UK they will not have dealers either.
For the lease and finance sales, does the dealer get comission for a lease/finance?
Targets are 1980s thinking, as this flters down to the customer and gives them a bad experience. A desperate dealer desperate to hit sales targets is then desperate to sell them on at any cost which impacts residuals (suddenly a 30k retail car is being sold for 20k) or pressures the dealer to sell cars which is done by pressuring the customer to buy them.
The manufacturer having an additional stream of revenue? I'd rather have that as the money can be spend on R&D of cars rather than wasted on overheads.
The dealer doesn't take a commission for lease deals that go through the broker network, or for supplying Arval and co. We do the deals to get to target. For the lease and finance sales, does the dealer get comission for a lease/finance?
Targets are 1980s thinking, as this flters down to the customer and gives them a bad experience. A desperate dealer desperate to hit sales targets is then desperate to sell them on at any cost which impacts residuals (suddenly a 30k retail car is being sold for 20k) or pressures the dealer to sell cars which is done by pressuring the customer to buy them.
The manufacturer having an additional stream of revenue? I'd rather have that as the money can be spend on R&D of cars rather than wasted on overheads.
Do you think that manufacturers won't have a target number of vehicles to sell if there's no dealer network? Do you think they'll be happy if sales drop? There will still be pressure to keep the factories churning out units.
And how is Tesla doing with customer service from their own dealer network? From reading reports and talking to a company which probably has more Tesla's on their books than anyone else, it's pretty shocking (pardon the pun).
Yes the dealer landscape is changing, but it's not going away anytime soon. If it was they wouldn't be making dealers invest in gun palace showrooms and corporate coloured chairs and frothy coffee machines. It's fairly unusual that the manufacturers own these places, they're owned by the dealers themselves. We won't be shifting to the Apple or Tesla sales model for a good few years yet
HTP99 said:
The Mad Monk said:
HTP99 said:
DuraAce said:
Withdrawing from /cancelling a used car sale prior to collection...
Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
We try and fight a bit but ultimately if pushed we will return a deposit. Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
Not often.
I wouldn't have thought that a sale could be "forced through", deposit kept yes.
Don't give them a deposit.
Sheepshanks said:
RicksAlfas said:
It's crackers. My local MB glass palace offers a free collection and delivery service so I never see their new chairs/fish tank/coffee machine/receptionist anyway!
Are you sure it's free? It's built in to the cost of ServiceCare plans. If you're paying yourself, then normally selecting the 'drop and go' option will knock £50 off the service price.My local dealer never used to charge for courtesy cars, but then they started refusing to discuss price and referring me to the the online booking system, MyService. Then you see the charges if you look at all the options. I use an indie now.
Either way, I haven't seen their new corporate chairs!
HTP99 said:
DuraAce said:
Withdrawing from /cancelling a used car sale prior to collection...
Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
We try and fight a bit but ultimately if pushed we will return a deposit. Do you guys return deposits without argument?
How often does it happen?
Have you ever known a dealer to force the sale through?
Not often.
I wouldn't have thought that a sale could be "forced through", deposit kept yes.
They dont want to return the deposit (which I can totally understand, they aren't a charity and have overheads etc).
No talk of forcing the sale thankfully. I'll put the lost deposit down to experience - I cannot be bothered fighting them for it. Should've walked before then but
"Shiny car syndrome" leads to judgement going out of the window. Silly silly boy, I should know better!
jamoor said:
This is literally 1980's thinking and exactly the type of thinking that's prevelant in the UK motor trade (not sure about other countries)
Consumers these days look online and pretty much know what they want.
Why would the cars be more expensive they will either be cheaper or better value as there is no middleman overheads to pay.
Meanwhile, back on the showroom floor where real deals happen.....Consumers these days look online and pretty much know what they want.
Why would the cars be more expensive they will either be cheaper or better value as there is no middleman overheads to pay.
Edited by Mexman on Tuesday 3rd March 12:04
Edited by Mexman on Tuesday 3rd March 12:05
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