RE: Geely completes Lotus takeover
Discussion
saaby93 said:
Why do so many people think Geely is a good idea?
As someone else said where are the home grown investors?
Why does a company even need an investor - why can't it stand on it's own 4 wheels
Investors only invest because there's some cream to be had, which could have gone back into the business
I think there are very few, if any British owned car companies. I don't see the problem if they run it well?As someone else said where are the home grown investors?
Why does a company even need an investor - why can't it stand on it's own 4 wheels
Investors only invest because there's some cream to be had, which could have gone back into the business
saaby93 said:
Why do so many people think Geely is a good idea?
Couple of reasons: they have the money Lotus needs to grow out of the niche they are in. It's either that or, as Kambites says, shrink. And they look like the type of investor that is pretty much ideal for the situation Lotus is in.To expand a bit: new investors can be worrying, if they are e.g. only after some IP, asset stripping etc. But from what Geely say, they are after a long term investment in the brand and products. Which seems believable seeing how they handled Volvo.
That was basically: "Here's a mega-ton of money, go develop a new modular platform with it. Ah and also, would you like a hand with sourcing in China? We are quite good at it." Seems to have worked really well.
Not so uncommon as well, lots of Chinese investment in e.g. smaller German tech firms done in the same spirit. It really does not matter so much where the money is from.
Neat outcome for Lotus. And not worried about the direction newer products will take. IMO they are still far from being that well funded there is a risk of going the Porsche way (ruining products with utter perfectionism
). They will still need to focus on a couple of key areas to make their products stand out and compromise in others. Only now they will get the funds to really punch.Ed Straker said:
plenty said:
Is that the same Chapman who helped John DeLorean put tens of millions of UK taxpayer money into overseas bank accounts?
Small-minded inaccurate BS with the added benefit of 20:20 hindsight..
DeLorean Scandal
From 1978 until his death, Chapman was involved with the American tycoon, John DeLorean, in his development of a stainless steel sports car, to be built in a factory in Northern Ireland which was majority-funded by the British government. The original concept design was for a mid-engine sports car, however difficulty in securing the original wankel engine rights and design complications led to the rear-engine mount design.
On 19 October 1982, John DeLorean was charged with trafficking cocaine by the U.S. government, following a videotaped sting operation in a Los Angeles hotel, in which he was recorded by undercover FBI agents agreeing to bankroll a 100 kilograms (220 lb) cocaine smuggling operation. The DeLorean car company subsequently collapsed, during which Administrators discovered that £10 million of British taxpayers' money, equivalent to £40 million in 2010, had gone missing.
Lotus Group's 1981 accounts were overdue before Chapman's death, but released after his death disclosed that Lotus had been paid for engineering work by DeLorean via a Swiss-based Panamanian company run by a DeLorean distributor, despite Chapman's previous protestations that neither he nor the company had been paid via Panama. Chapman died before the full deceit unravelled, but at the subsequent trial of Lotus Group accountant Fred Bushell, the judge insisted that had Chapman himself been in the dock, he would have received a sentence "of at least 10 years"......
GranCab said:
Ed Straker said:
plenty said:
Is that the same Chapman who helped John DeLorean put tens of millions of UK taxpayer money into overseas bank accounts?
Small-minded inaccurate BS with the added benefit of 20:20 hindsight..
DeLorean Scandal
From 1978 until his death, Chapman was involved with the American tycoon, John DeLorean, in his development of a stainless steel sports car, to be built in a factory in Northern Ireland which was majority-funded by the British government. The original concept design was for a mid-engine sports car, however difficulty in securing the original wankel engine rights and design complications led to the rear-engine mount design.
On 19 October 1982, John DeLorean was charged with trafficking cocaine by the U.S. government, following a videotaped sting operation in a Los Angeles hotel, in which he was recorded by undercover FBI agents agreeing to bankroll a 100 kilograms (220 lb) cocaine smuggling operation. The DeLorean car company subsequently collapsed, during which Administrators discovered that £10 million of British taxpayers' money, equivalent to £40 million in 2010, had gone missing.
Lotus Group's 1981 accounts were overdue before Chapman's death, but released after his death disclosed that Lotus had been paid for engineering work by DeLorean via a Swiss-based Panamanian company run by a DeLorean distributor, despite Chapman's previous protestations that neither he nor the company had been paid via Panama. Chapman died before the full deceit unravelled, but at the subsequent trial of Lotus Group accountant Fred Bushell, the judge insisted that had Chapman himself been in the dock, he would have received a sentence "of at least 10 years"......
wiki said:
DeLorean's attorney Howard Weitzman successfully demonstrated to the court that he was coerced into participation in the deal by the agents who initially approached him as legitimate investors. He was acquitted of all charges, but his reputation was forever tarnished. After his trial and subsequent acquittal, DeLorean quipped, "Would you buy a used car from me?"
In the end, sufficient funds could not be raised to keep the company alive. DMC went bankrupt in 1982, taking with it 2,500 jobs and over $100 million in investments. The British government attempted to revive some usable remnants of the manufacturing facility without success, and the Dunmurry factory was closed. DeLorean himself retired in New Jersey, and the dream with which he had mesmerized Britain's Labour government, of industry rising out of the ashes of Northern Ireland's sectarian conflict, was shattered. He claimed that the DMCL was deliberately closed for political reasons, and at the time of closing was a solidly viable company with millions of dollars in the bank and two years of dealer orders on the books.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_Motor_CompanyIn the end, sufficient funds could not be raised to keep the company alive. DMC went bankrupt in 1982, taking with it 2,500 jobs and over $100 million in investments. The British government attempted to revive some usable remnants of the manufacturing facility without success, and the Dunmurry factory was closed. DeLorean himself retired in New Jersey, and the dream with which he had mesmerized Britain's Labour government, of industry rising out of the ashes of Northern Ireland's sectarian conflict, was shattered. He claimed that the DMCL was deliberately closed for political reasons, and at the time of closing was a solidly viable company with millions of dollars in the bank and two years of dealer orders on the books.
SidewaysSi said:
saaby93 said:
Why do so many people think Geely is a good idea?
As someone else said where are the home grown investors?
Why does a company even need an investor - why can't it stand on it's own 4 wheels
Investors only invest because there's some cream to be had, which could have gone back into the business
I think there are very few, if any British owned car companies. I don't see the problem if they run it well?As someone else said where are the home grown investors?
Why does a company even need an investor - why can't it stand on it's own 4 wheels
Investors only invest because there's some cream to be had, which could have gone back into the business
Yipper said:
Britain just doesn't have the management skills or financial hunger to run big or complex companies anymore. It's best left, nowadays, to the Chinese, Germans and Americans, who have the scale and skills.
I disagree. But most of our managed talent seems up in the city and wouldn't dream of getting involved with factories. saaby93 said:
GranCab said:
Ed Straker said:
plenty said:
Is that the same Chapman who helped John DeLorean put tens of millions of UK taxpayer money into overseas bank accounts?
Small-minded inaccurate BS with the added benefit of 20:20 hindsight..
DeLorean Scandal
From 1978 until his death, Chapman was involved with the American tycoon, John DeLorean, in his development of a stainless steel sports car, to be built in a factory in Northern Ireland which was majority-funded by the British government. The original concept design was for a mid-engine sports car, however difficulty in securing the original wankel engine rights and design complications led to the rear-engine mount design.
On 19 October 1982, John DeLorean was charged with trafficking cocaine by the U.S. government, following a videotaped sting operation in a Los Angeles hotel, in which he was recorded by undercover FBI agents agreeing to bankroll a 100 kilograms (220 lb) cocaine smuggling operation. The DeLorean car company subsequently collapsed, during which Administrators discovered that £10 million of British taxpayers' money, equivalent to £40 million in 2010, had gone missing.
Lotus Group's 1981 accounts were overdue before Chapman's death, but released after his death disclosed that Lotus had been paid for engineering work by DeLorean via a Swiss-based Panamanian company run by a DeLorean distributor, despite Chapman's previous protestations that neither he nor the company had been paid via Panama. Chapman died before the full deceit unravelled, but at the subsequent trial of Lotus Group accountant Fred Bushell, the judge insisted that had Chapman himself been in the dock, he would have received a sentence "of at least 10 years"......
wiki said:
DeLorean's attorney Howard Weitzman successfully demonstrated to the court that he was coerced into participation in the deal by the agents who initially approached him as legitimate investors. He was acquitted of all charges, but his reputation was forever tarnished. After his trial and subsequent acquittal, DeLorean quipped, "Would you buy a used car from me?"
In the end, sufficient funds could not be raised to keep the company alive. DMC went bankrupt in 1982, taking with it 2,500 jobs and over $100 million in investments. The British government attempted to revive some usable remnants of the manufacturing facility without success, and the Dunmurry factory was closed. DeLorean himself retired in New Jersey, and the dream with which he had mesmerized Britain's Labour government, of industry rising out of the ashes of Northern Ireland's sectarian conflict, was shattered. He claimed that the DMCL was deliberately closed for political reasons, and at the time of closing was a solidly viable company with millions of dollars in the bank and two years of dealer orders on the books.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeLorean_Motor_CompanyIn the end, sufficient funds could not be raised to keep the company alive. DMC went bankrupt in 1982, taking with it 2,500 jobs and over $100 million in investments. The British government attempted to revive some usable remnants of the manufacturing facility without success, and the Dunmurry factory was closed. DeLorean himself retired in New Jersey, and the dream with which he had mesmerized Britain's Labour government, of industry rising out of the ashes of Northern Ireland's sectarian conflict, was shattered. He claimed that the DMCL was deliberately closed for political reasons, and at the time of closing was a solidly viable company with millions of dollars in the bank and two years of dealer orders on the books.
GranCab said:
Just because J deL's Attorney got him off the hook doesn't mean he was innocent ....
I guess you have your own system of justice, which is obviously much much better than anyone else'sAny other judgements you'd like to take in your own hands
Now where's that enormous scales and a duck gone
saaby93 said:
GranCab said:
Just because J deL's Attorney got him off the hook doesn't mean he was innocent ....
I guess you have your own system of justice, which is obviously much much better than anyone else'sAny other judgements you'd like to take in your own hands
Now where's that enormous scales and a duck gone
saaby93 said:
jamoor said:
It's funny how backwards thinking people are.
Personally I think volvo has gotten much better in the past five years. I'm sure lotus will too.
Does it feel Swedish any more?Personally I think volvo has gotten much better in the past five years. I'm sure lotus will too.
It’s not like they used to be made of flat packed chipboard!
CDP said:
Yipper said:
Britain just doesn't have the management skills or financial hunger to run big or complex companies anymore. It's best left, nowadays, to the Chinese, Germans and Americans, who have the scale and skills.
I disagree. But most of our managed talent seems up in the city and wouldn't dream of getting involved with factories. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff