RE: Honda Civic Type R vs. Ford Focus RS Mountune

[Konan]

Ahbefive said:

You didn't enjoy launch control, being able to drift it, the noise it makes, the pointy steering?

Unfathomable imo. What were you comparing it to? What have you owned since that was better?

Are those really it's best points?

[lord trumpton]

liner33 said:

lord trumpton said:

You should read my other posts in threads properly.

Ive posted a pic of the one I owned and also the reasons why I didn't get on with it.

No I never tried the launch control. The drift mode was not tested either being honest.

I sold mine through finding it boring to drive and slower than I'd hoped and the prevalence of the cracked block issues. I could have perseveered with it and pushed harder to discover the merits but prices were starting to fall so I cut it loose when I could. Looking at the amount for sale and the tumbling asking prices it was a smart move on my part.

My comment on this thread relates to the seemingly worrying upsurge of HGF. I'm glad I got rid.

Without wanting to sound sarcastic; it's good you enjoy and love yours so much. Everyone has different requirements and thresholds for excitement. It didn't work out for me and from reading forums there are like minded people who love it and also feel underwhelmed. It's just how it is.

I read one of your old posts "The current car - The Focus RS on paper meets all my needs - space, pace and fairly economical"

Yeah it did seem to at the time of buying.

So did my Skoda vRS 230 but that didn't last long either. Or the Civic type R, Golf R, the Z4M coupe, the E92 M3....I've owned loads of the last 2 years. Maybe it's me with the problem

The only car I've kept hold of is my beloved Z3M coupe. Now that is a special car that delivers on every drive

[Ahbefive]

Konan said:

Ahbefive said:

You didn't enjoy launch control, being able to drift it, the noise it makes, the pointy steering?

Unfathomable imo. What were you comparing it to? What have you owned since that was better?

Are those really it's best points?

For me, it's best points are its steering, handling/balance, ability to power oversteer on demand, looks, brakes, seats and the infotainment system. I alao like the noise it makes. 5door practicality is useful although I rarely have anyone in the back.

The launch control is a bit of fun for Santa Pod only.

Not sure what else there is to enjoy in a car which is why I find it odd that some people apparently don't like it.

[Ahbefive]

lord trumpton said:

You should read my other posts in threads properly.

Ive posted a pic of the one I owned and also the reasons why I didn't get on with it.

No I never tried the launch control. The drift mode was not tested either being honest.

I sold mine through finding it boring to drive and slower than I'd hoped and the prevalence of the cracked block issues. I could have perseveered with it and pushed harder to discover the merits but prices were starting to fall so I cut it loose when I could. Looking at the amount for sale and the tumbling asking prices it was a smart move on my part.

My comment on this thread relates to the seemingly worrying upsurge of HGF. I'm glad I got rid.

Without wanting to sound sarcastic; it's good you enjoy and love yours so much. Everyone has different requirements and thresholds for excitement. It didn't work out for me and from reading forums there are like minded people who love it and also feel underwhelmed. It's just how it is.

Fair enough, but "feeling underwhelmed" seems very vague and could probably be attributed to any comparable car. It does 60mph in under 5 seconds so if the performance wasn't enough for you then I can only think you picked the wrong type of car.

Prices seem to be holding very well with an 18month old car still fetching £27k ( better than any competitors) but then thats a 20 page thread elsewhere.

Not sure why having a head gasket go or a new engine is a reason to sell a car that has 5 years warranty but each to their own I guess.

[lord trumpton]

Ahbefive said:

lord trumpton said:

You should read my other posts in threads properly.

Ive posted a pic of the one I owned and also the reasons why I didn't get on with it.

No I never tried the launch control. The drift mode was not tested either being honest.

I sold mine through finding it boring to drive and slower than I'd hoped and the prevalence of the cracked block issues. I could have perseveered with it and pushed harder to discover the merits but prices were starting to fall so I cut it loose when I could. Looking at the amount for sale and the tumbling asking prices it was a smart move on my part.

My comment on this thread relates to the seemingly worrying upsurge of HGF. I'm glad I got rid.

Without wanting to sound sarcastic; it's good you enjoy and love yours so much. Everyone has different requirements and thresholds for excitement. It didn't work out for me and from reading forums there are like minded people who love it and also feel underwhelmed. It's just how it is.

Fair enough, but "feeling underwhelmed" seems very vague and could probably be attributed to any comparable car. It does 60mph in under 5 seconds so if the performance wasn't enough for you then I can only think you picked the wrong type of car.

Prices seem to be holding very well with an 18month old car still fetching £27k ( better than any competitors) but then thats a 20 page thread elsewhere.

Not sure why having a head gasket go or a new engine is a reason to sell a car that has 5 years warranty but each to their own I guess.

It's just the hassle factor really.

When said quickly 'it's under warranty' then it sounds simple enough. In reality though getting major things done is a major ballache.

- Book car in for investigation
- Take time from work/homelife
- They may or may not diagnose the issue
- You go back again with the same issue taking time from work, dealing with the service characters behind the desk
- They may or may not find it.
- Car sits at the dealership for weeks whilst they run checks and go back and forth with Ford UK
- It awaits authorisation for repair/replacement
- You get to drive around in some crap loaner
- Somehow it gets marked, scratched, dented whilst they work on it/sits in the yard
- You collect the car and spend weeks looking for water loss, listening for noises (ie become paranoid)

It's just a lot of fking about that I can't really be arsed with.

As for feeling underwhelmed - well my feeling was that it made a lot of noise and didn't seem to be moving as quick as it should. Sure the 0-60 looks good because of launch control and 4wd. I found that when on the move the in gear acceleration just wasn't that strong.

The veering at speed was unnerving at best, and bloody shocking at worst.

The interior was a little low rent, but admittedly not a deal breaker as it wasn't a daily.

It's hard to really quantify to be honest and in isolation all the points are fairly trivial but overall it just didn't thrill me. I buy any car I have outright, no finance so I'm always mindful of depreciation and at the time I thought it best to cut it loose and minimise losses.

If I had one on a lease/pcp and was forced to stick with it and had a fixed amount of 'loss' then it may have been different who knows

[Ahbefive]

Fair enough if you didn't like it but judging by your list, you don't like loads of good cars.

I think you must have had a very poor experience with getting warranty work done. Last time I needed warranty work I dropped it in and picked it up a week later whilst keeping a fun little courtesy car for the week. None of the aggro you seem to have had.

[Konan]

Ahbefive said:

Not sure what else there is to enjoy in a car which is why I find it odd that some people apparently don't like it.

There's all sorts to enjoy about a car!

I think people that 'don't like' may have just been indifferent, had they not been bombarded with what felt like a year of unending hype from all corners.

After a bit of passenger time on track, I just wasn't all that interested in it. I suppose there are a lot of cars I'd feel like that about, but I guess I really wanted to like it..and...well.. no... it just doesn't put a grin on my face.

Although I do think the exhaust sounds like a Corsa B with a rotten through mid box and a knackered lambda sensor

[Tickle]

I wouldn't mind a go of the new Civic (or the outgoing one) just out of curiosity as it does get very high praise.

I drove a Montune Focus and a Meg 275 Trophy recently and I preferred the Meg by quite some margin. The Focus was good but it didn't feel as 'special'. I suppose why we like certain cars and how a car feels are not quantifiable and ultimately subjective.

Certainly going through a good era for hot-hatches for power, grip, acceleration; however, shame aspects like steering feel are being numbed out.

[Legacywr]

I thought it was a poor package overall! Of course it has it's good points, but, for me, they didn't save it!

[SidewaysSi]

Too heavy and poor steering for me I'm afraid. And drift mode is a bit of a gimmick. Not a bad old thing though.

But I see EVO and most mags rate the Civic as the far better car.

[IanJ9375]

SidewaysSi said:

Too heavy and poor steering for me I'm afraid. And drift mode is a bit of a gimmick. Not a bad old thing though.

But I see EVO and most mags rate the Civic as the far better car.

And then they'll rate the Megane ahead of it when it lands...I see a pattern here lol

You couldn't buy a terrible hot hatch currently if you tried in all honesty, such a wide variety of cars at such wide variety of prices - brilliant for the punters.

[Driver101]

I'm warming to the Civic Type R, but I couldn't see me buying one. I'd like a shot of one to see if it's as special as people say.

[skinnyman]

Friend of mine has a mk3 FRS, Ford have been in touch to say they're fitting a new engine for him, he's not even had any problems, they're doing it as a precaution. Annoyingly for him he's got the MP375 pack fitted (by the dealership he purchased the car from), and they won't refit it as part of the work, they want to charge the labour costs again.

[SidewaysSi]

IanJ9375 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Too heavy and poor steering for me I'm afraid. And drift mode is a bit of a gimmick. Not a bad old thing though.

But I see EVO and most mags rate the Civic as the far better car.

And then they'll rate the Megane ahead of it when it lands...I see a pattern here lol

You couldn't buy a terrible hot hatch currently if you tried in all honesty, such a wide variety of cars at such wide variety of prices - brilliant for the punters.

True - all half decent cars if you like the modern approach to life. I wouldn't count on the Meg being better - Renault don't have a great track record in getting in right out of the box.

[Dblue]

SidewaysSi said:

IanJ9375 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Too heavy and poor steering for me I'm afraid. And drift mode is a bit of a gimmick. Not a bad old thing though.

But I see EVO and most mags rate the Civic as the far better car.

And then they'll rate the Megane ahead of it when it lands...I see a pattern here lol

You couldn't buy a terrible hot hatch currently if you tried in all honesty, such a wide variety of cars at such wide variety of prices - brilliant for the punters.

True - all half decent cars if you like the modern approach to life. I wouldn't count on the Meg being better - Renault don't have a great track record in getting in right out of the box.

You are referring to the Clio , in 2 generations admittedly, but RS Megane 3 was superb from the start, so much so that it barely changed throughout its time
RS are brilliant, Meg will be a real competitor , albeit in Trophy form I expect

[mrnoisy78]

lord trumpton said:

It's just the hassle factor really.

When said quickly 'it's under warranty' then it sounds simple enough. In reality though getting major things done is a major ballache.

- Book car in for investigation
- Take time from work/homelife
- They may or may not diagnose the issue
- You go back again with the same issue taking time from work, dealing with the service characters behind the desk
- They may or may not find it.
- Car sits at the dealership for weeks whilst they run checks and go back and forth with Ford UK
- It awaits authorisation for repair/replacement
- You get to drive around in some crap loaner
- Somehow it gets marked, scratched, dented whilst they work on it/sits in the yard
- You collect the car and spend weeks looking for water loss, listening for noises (ie become paranoid)

It's just a lot of fking about that I can't really be arsed with.

As for feeling underwhelmed - well my feeling was that it made a lot of noise and didn't seem to be moving as quick as it should. Sure the 0-60 looks good because of launch control and 4wd. I found that when on the move the in gear acceleration just wasn't that strong.

The veering at speed was unnerving at best, and bloody shocking at worst.

The interior was a little low rent, but admittedly not a deal breaker as it wasn't a daily.

It's hard to really quantify to be honest and in isolation all the points are fairly trivial but overall it just didn't thrill me. I buy any car I have outright, no finance so I'm always mindful of depreciation and at the time I thought it best to cut it loose and minimise losses.

If I had one on a lease/pcp and was forced to stick with it and had a fixed amount of 'loss' then it may have been different who knows

Agree with all of the above and on the veering.
Sounds like we had similar experiences.
I actually quite liked the looks and the interior wasn't a deal breaker either (although on long journeys the shell seats were uncomfortable)
Had a mate who's an AMG mechanic go out in it with me, veered at speed on a straight dual carriageway and he exclaimed "jesus what the hell was that" - and could see I hadn't moved the wheel.
I also felt that the RS never felt that quick (despite figures on paper the dyno showed it quite down on that) but then depends what you've had before, even with the Mountune pack on it, and for me too it was the in gear acceleration where I felt it fell down - on overtakes the gearing wasn't really right and it always seemed to run out of puff too early.

Mine also had the intermittent sticking exhaust valve issue (also documented on forums) which meant you couldn't change modes because the flap would stick.
The car was on PCP and I chopped it in against a different car and had the dealer pay off the finance, same as you cut it loose, minimise loss, couldn't be bothered visiting multiple dealers - especially when 2 of them had completely different ideas on problems and diagnoses, but the general consensus seemed the same - they didn't really know much about RS's period

[HumanDoing]

mrnoisy78 said:

Agree with all of the above and on the veering.
Sounds like we had similar experiences.
I actually quite liked the looks and the interior wasn't a deal breaker either (although on long journeys the shell seats were uncomfortable)
Had a mate who's an AMG mechanic go out in it with me, veered at speed on a straight dual carriageway and he exclaimed "jesus what the hell was that" - and could see I hadn't moved the wheel.
I also felt that the RS never felt that quick (despite figures on paper the dyno showed it quite down on that) but then depends what you've had before, even with the Mountune pack on it, and for me too it was the in gear acceleration where I felt it fell down - on overtakes the gearing wasn't really right and it always seemed to run out of puff too early.

Mine also had the intermittent sticking exhaust valve issue (also documented on forums) which meant you couldn't change modes because the flap would stick.
The car was on PCP and I chopped it in against a different car and had the dealer pay off the finance, same as you cut it loose, minimise loss, couldn't be bothered visiting multiple dealers - especially when 2 of them had completely different ideas on problems and diagnoses, but the general consensus seemed the same - they didn't really know much about RS's period

Well said Noisy. Prepare now for hell fire and brimstone from RS disciples who will tell you that a 5 year warranty, 5 doors, bluetooth and impressing 12 year old boys are the most important factors in purchasing an H. Hatch.

[Ahbefive]

Or maybe he and Trumpton just has a different experience to the other owners on here. Mine has so far had no problems at all and it now due its first service.

I'm sure there are owners of every type of car going (maybe except Lexus) that have had issues.

Also yes, 5 years warranty puts my mind at easr.

[Legacywr]

I rejected the purchase of my car long before any mechanical failures, but, I did know there were going to be.

[jonm01]

Do we all know about the Type R gearbox problems?