Best smoker barges 1-5 large [Vol 12]

[derin100]

SpeckledJim said:

derin100 said:

^^ Very interesting to know and bear in mind!

The only (close to) personal experience I have of an auto gearbox failure in an E39 was a friend of mine who bought a 540i Touring which had just over the above stated 150K miles and did indeed promptly develop a problem. So definitely food for thought and a strong argument possibly for seeking out low mileage examples...hmmm? My wive's 525i (or is it now mine?) had only 50-odd K miles when we bought it and still only 79K. So maybe I should hang on to it.

Apart from headlamps and bluetooth, cars haven't really got any better than a good E39 in the last 20 years.

Don't talk to me about headlamps....I've just spent the last two days taking apart, wet-sanding and polishing the headlamps on the E39 here!

It's such a tedious job!

[Krikkit]

derin100 said:

In short, Barges give with one hand yet take with the other....

As someone once said:

Quite so.

I think the take-home is we buy a slice of luxury for a mere fraction of their original prices, but have to roll the dice on breakages.

That's why most sensible people just go and buy an Astra or lease a Golf something.

[SpeckledJim]

Krikkit said:

derin100 said:

In short, Barges give with one hand yet take with the other....

As someone once said:

Quite so.

I think the take-home is we buy a slice of luxury for a mere fraction of their original prices, but have to roll the dice on breakages.

That's why most sensible people just go and buy an Astra or lease a Golf something.

I'd dispute describing them as sensible. Their heavy losses are guaranteed. Yours and mine are not.

[Krikkit]

Definitely, but not everyone has the stomach to run multiple cars, and with the question of reliability at the end of it.

A brand new Golf under warranty, for example, will start every day, connect your bluetooth, and generally proceed as expected. Totally without soul of course, hence why we pass and go for something with pizazz.

[SpeckledJim]

Krikkit said:

Definitely, but not everyone has the stomach to run multiple cars, and with the question of reliability at the end of it.

A brand new Golf under warranty, for example, will start every day, connect your bluetooth, and generally proceed as expected. Totally without soul of course, hence why we pass and go for something with pizazz.

It'll do those things, but it'll cost £350 a month, every month.

I reckon in the last, say, 5 years running a semi-interesting 'fleet' (hate that cheesy term, we need a new one) which is worth bugger-all but with a new value that must be getting on for a quarter of a million pounds, there have only been 5 or 6 months which have cost more than that.

[CharlesdeGaulle]

Krikkit said:

... multiple cars ...with ... reliability at the end of it.

Mate, we've been through this. I've edited your post to remind you of the facts!

[derin100]

SpeckledJim said:

'fleet' (hate that cheesy term, we need a new one)

Armada?

[SpeckledJim]

derin100 said:

SpeckledJim said:

'fleet' (hate that cheesy term, we need a new one)

Armada?

Bit grandiose for my bunch.

gaggle?

flange?

[Gruber]

Thank you Mr Lowtimer - much obliged.

Lowtimer said:

This is not specifically a BMW E39 problem, by the way: it also applies to any other car with automatic transmissions for which the carmarker has decided for commercial reasons to ignore the transmission manufacturer's maintenance recommendations, on the grounds that the first owner of a car wants the lowest possible running costs, and what happens the the third owner out of warranty is not a problem for the carmaker.

I remember picking up the old e61 523i (passed around within this parish) after getting the gearbox serviced - it's fair to say there was a noticeable difference in general smoothness. Of course, how long that actually preserved the life of the box we'll never know. But unsurprisingly, a service wrought benefits.

It seems nuts to me that BMW didn't include it in the service schedule.

[Patrick Bateman]

Are Merc the only ones that still bother?

Assuming they still do that is, I know the first generation CLS has gearbox services in the schedule.

If after an e39, that one above but on say 100k miles would be perfect. Plan on keeping it a while and you could get the fluid changed and hopefully sleep easy.

[Lowtimer]

derin100 said:

^^ Very interesting to know and bear in mind!

The only (close to) personal experience I have of an auto gearbox failure in an E39 was a friend of mine who bought a 540i Touring which had just over the above stated 150K miles and did indeed promptly develop a problem. So definitely food for thought and a strong argument possibly for seeking out low mileage examples...hmmm? My wive's 525i (or is it now mine?) had only 50-odd K miles when we bought it and still only 79K. So maybe I should hang on to it.

By all means keep it, but it doesn't sound as if you like it very much and you aren't using it a great deal. If you want an automatic transmission then buy the car you want and just budget for a proper transmission rebuild. Like the 530i in the advert.

[tobinen]

I had my 210's 'box done at 90,000. I can't recall if MB said at one point they were sealed for life, but it's a worthwhile thing to do if it's never been done.

The CL will be having it done soon.

[Lowtimer]

Krikkit said:

Definitely, but not everyone has the stomach to run multiple cars, and with the question of reliability at the end of it.

A brand new Golf under warranty, for example, will start every day, connect your bluetooth, and generally proceed as expected. Totally without soul of course, hence why we pass and go for something with pizazz.

Well, that's why we have the Prius as well as the other stuff. And also because I don't consider it fair to expect Mrs LT to put up with things not working as expected when she's on her own. But by and large I find once you get a nineties or naughties car properly refurbed and sorted it's very reliable. You just have to work on the basis that maintenance and overhaul are anticipatory acts to prevent in-service failures, rather than waiting for things to die and then replacing them afterwards.

[Lowtimer]

Gruber said:

It seems nuts to me that BMW didn't include it in the service schedule.

As far as I know no-one in the mass market does now. They're regarded as lifed replacement items for the few cars than go past 150k before they are scrapped.

Manufacturers want to get people into new cars every 3-4 years, and BMW has been very successful at that.

[Gruber]

Lowtimer said:

Well, that's why we have the Prius as well as the other stuff. And also because I don't consider it fair to expect Mrs LT to put up with things not working as expected when she's on her own. But by and large I find once you get a nineties or naughties car properly refurbed and sorted it's very reliable. You just have to work on the basis that maintenance and overhaul are anticipatory acts to prevent in-service failures, rather than waiting for things to die and then replacing them afterwards.

The problem with modern-ish cars (i.e. mid-2000s onwards), IME, is that big bills come from unexpected peripherals, rather than preventable service items. Take Mrs G's previous car, a fully spec'd low-mileage e61 530d xDrive. It threw us a CHF3,000 bill because the wipers developed a glitch and the central locking stopped working within the space of a fortnight - the computery bits that needed replacing to make it all work again cost a fortune, on top of eye-watering local labour rates.

It was promptly chopped in for a nearly-new Cactus which has been faultless... and, I'm ashamed to say, has grown on me.

The point of the story... I'm not sure preventative maintenance gets you all that far these days. Go new or go old and low-tech. Anything in between = trouble.

[Stegel]

Lowtimer said:

Gruber said:

It seems nuts to me that BMW didn't include it in the service schedule.

As far as I know no-one in the mass market does now. They're regarded as lifed replacement items for the few cars than go past 150k before they are scrapped.

Manufacturers want to get people into new cars every 3-4 years, and BMW has been very successful at that.

MB still do (certainly with the GL anyway) although they have kicked it down the road to the second owners, with it indicated at 50k miles or thereabouts. I’ve never understood the “once only” mantra either - in the days of running cars in, the 1,000 mile first oil change was understandable, to deal with swarf etc., but if that’s the case with the gearbox, why wait until 35k or whatever, and if that’s not the “one off” reason, why not every 35k?

[derin100]

Lowtimer said:

derin100 said:

^^ Very interesting to know and bear in mind!

The only (close to) personal experience I have of an auto gearbox failure in an E39 was a friend of mine who bought a 540i Touring which had just over the above stated 150K miles and did indeed promptly develop a problem. So definitely food for thought and a strong argument possibly for seeking out low mileage examples...hmmm? My wive's 525i (or is it now mine?) had only 50-odd K miles when we bought it and still only 79K. So maybe I should hang on to it.

By all means keep it, but it doesn't sound as if you like it very much and you aren't using it a great deal. If you want an automatic transmission then buy the car you want and just budget for a proper transmission rebuild. Like the 530i in the advert.

I did come very close to deciding to sell it but the trouble is, when I came to clean it up in preparation selling I realised that it's in pretty much perfect condition...not even a speck of rust, no scratches, dents, unmarked interior, 4 near new tyres (spare wheel and tyre are unused) and I've just bought a full set of discs and pads to go on it. Yet, for what I'd get for it on the open market I may as well keep it as a 'back up car'.

It's pretty boring/boggo spec but comfy and frugal enough.

I don't need that 530 Touring as I/we now have the X3 which can double-up like an estate and we don't drive very many miles at all anymore.

[ShyTallKnight]

rsbmw said:

Do either of you have any thoughts on the 5.0 SC unit in the XFR? I'm currently looking at 2010-2011 models with around 60k mileage. Everything I have read suggests this is a pretty robust engine. Appreciate this is off topic for this thread.

Interesting comments further up on older, leggier XF's.

I currently have a facelift XFR so will let you know what I know about the 5.0SC. They do seem generally reliable if looked after. Main issues seem to be water pumps and supercharger couplers. Mine has had both replaced (under warranty) but neither particularly costly.

Other 'common' issues:
Pre 2013'ish uses the 6 speed ZF gearbox and although sealed for life it is recommended to change the fluid after 60k miles
Coolant level sensors can fail - integral with coolant expansion tank
Door mechanisms and other electrics can be fragile e.g. TPMS
Front discs can warp (380mm dia) and from what I gather it is recommended to stick with OEM discs - not expensive though.
Corrosion around rear bootlid plinth although should be covered under warranty and mainly affected the mk1 XF

Good fun though and relatively cheap to run - well for a supercharged V8

Edited by ShyTallKnight on Friday 27th April 13:57

[Prinny]

layercake said:

congratulations mate, you beat me to it, if you ever sell it would appreciate first refusal, tried to email you but says it isn't accepting emails

People on here have mailed me before, & my settings seem OK? Have another go?

(I’ve no specific plans to sell, trying to build a set of “keepers”, but never say never. I’ll try & remember, but yes, you’re more than welcome to be 1st on the list). If I had to sacrifice one of the 3 (bearing in mind I haven’t picked up the sl yet), it would be the M6. As good as it is, it’s a 5% car, as the rest of the time, you just can’t exercise it to the full without fear of license.

[anonymous-user]

Krikkit said:

Respectfully, I disagree.

Slating Jaguar for penny-pinching completely ignores the other rival marques (Lexus aside) of doing exactly the same thing of this era, and leaving cars with some serious faults.

Take, for example, the E39 - not only do you have a cooling system which needs refreshing often (lest ye be stuck with a burst system), but you can plough a fortune into trying to fix the front end shimmy without even meeting with success. That's before you get to the standard items which wear out on old barges.

The w210/211 is no better - the electrics in the 211 are frequently a problem child, the 210 fizzes away for fun when exposed to weather without being pampered... The other two rust, but that really is in a league of its own.

As far as the S-type and XF goes they're a bit of an unknown quantity, certainly the S-type was built down to a price, and it shows. The early XF was an immensely complex car, electronically speaking, so it's no surprise there are some gremlins.

You make excellent points, every old car has it's issue but my experience is that even "young" Jaguars are pretty much clapped out at 150k and you never see a high mileage Jaguar with an interior that looks anything other than high mileage. If you work on them yourself it's always an exercise in frustration as every single bolt and fastener is seized or corroded on a 6 year old car. My 15 year old Volvo V70 doesn't suffer from this and was a much cheaper car when new.

For those who might be interested, I worked for a telematics company and their engineers were always having problems integrating the product with new JLR products. They told me that this was because of the way JLR implement CAN bus in their cars. Most manufacturers use multiple busses now for all the secondary systems because they are really pushing the 1MBit capacity of high speed CAN, but Jaguar instead run a single bus pushing the limits of it's capacity.

This makes them extremely sensitive to any problems with connectors, EM interference, or any noise at all on the bus. It was a big headache for them to try and integrate their device onto the bus on the new XF and the XE. Their collective opinion is that as the car ages they'd expect unsolvable electrical issues - wet cables causing increased capacitance, connectors ageing, components in modules drifting out of spec etc. I seem to recall (this was a year or so ago) they mentioned that this was also a FoMoCo practice but doesn't tend to matter on their cars as there is so much less on the bus.

We were working with one of the big lease players at the time, their stats on warranty claims and problems made for some illuminating discussions too.