RE: BMW M135i: PH Fleet
Discussion
crusty said:
Maybe I am out of touch with pricing, but is anyone surprised at the cost - nearly 2 grand for springs and dampers!!
You really do get what you pay for with springs and dampers.Also you pay to a degree for knowledge of setup and geo etc.
Having said that, a set of eibach springs alone would give plenty of benefits.
Interesting to hear the 10mm wheel spacer is considered a performance upgrade - I was very nervous about adding 12mm spacers to me M3 to clear my 4 pot calipers but having done it the change in steering feel is negligible.
Would have thought that BMW would get the scrub radius right but maybe not. It does make a surprising difference to the look of the car as well.
Would have thought that BMW would get the scrub radius right but maybe not. It does make a surprising difference to the look of the car as well.
culpz said:
I think the whole point here is to see how good the M-Lite can be with a few tweaks. I believe that these are criticised for being an 8/10th's car, meaning that they do have a limit where the car has no more to give and starts to lose composure. Potentially, with a bit of money thrown at it and a varied amount of aftermarket parts installed, maybe it can make up those last few tenths.
I totally agree it's a 8/10th car - which is well as you can't reasonably use more than 6 or 7 / 10 ths on the road. I actually miss mine on the road for that very reason, as the Megane only starts working at 8/10ths.A lot of the damping / spring shortcoming were addressed with the LCI.
The first mod on this car IME are front M4 LCAs. Better turn-in, some steering feel, more even front tyre wear. But I only experienced that on LCI so this might not be the priority on a pre-LCI.
I believe the key reason for the OE rear spring softness is traction, which becomes less of an issue with an LSD.
nickfrog said:
culpz said:
I think the whole point here is to see how good the M-Lite can be with a few tweaks. I believe that these are criticised for being an 8/10th's car, meaning that they do have a limit where the car has no more to give and starts to lose composure. Potentially, with a bit of money thrown at it and a varied amount of aftermarket parts installed, maybe it can make up those last few tenths.
I totally agree it's a 8/10th car - which is well as you can't reasonably use more than 6 or 7 / 10 ths on the road. I actually miss mine on the road for that very reason, as the Megane only starts working at 8/10ths.A lot of the damping / spring shortcoming were addressed with the LCI.
The first mod on this car IME are front M4 LCAs. Better turn-in, some steering feel, more even front tyre wear. But I only experienced that on LCI so this might not be the priority on a pre-LCI.
I believe the key reason for the OE rear spring softness is traction, which becomes less of an issue with an LSD.
I agree with you about the soft rear end, but didn't feel like spending thousands on a car that BMW could have sorted properly themselves without much more effort.
SS7
This whole article sounds well and good.
But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
patch5674 said:
This whole article sounds well and good.
But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
That sounds about right. Even brand new, at smidge under 30k, the standard car with no options, it did look like terrific value. Especially when when you get a powerful turbocharged 6-cylinder engine, RWD layout and a manual gearbox for your money.But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
Further to that, there was also the spectacularly-cheap lease/PCP deals that made them look even more attractive, similarly offered on the Golf R. Speaking of the Golf, which was probably the main rival to these, it made them look more desirable to those that wanted what it offered.
The only real issue with it was, when really pushed, it started to show it flaws and the suspension struggled to cope.
patch5674 said:
This whole article sounds well and good.
But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
Have to say I totally agree, from the original reviews of these I assumed they were amazing. But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
I know that no car is perfect , but a motoring journalist could at least point out a cars deficiency. Otherwise, what is the point of the review.
patch5674 said:
This whole article sounds well and good.
But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
There weren’t many bad reviews but all of them said it was an 8/10ths car. What everyone raved on about was the fact that it was under £30k with no options and was/ is tremendous value for money.But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
patch5674 said:
This whole article sounds well and good.
But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
Its a car that really impresses on casual acquaintance due to the nature of the engine, noise, RWD balance etc.But I swear when this car first came out it was treated by motoring journalists as the second coming of christ himself, and it could do no wrong and it was criminally good. The best hot hatch of them all better than its contemporaries blah blah blah.
I certainly don't remember reading a bad review of it on PH?
I was blown away on a test drive, and I think a lot of journos 'fell' for this too. It really does feel unique in its class and its easy to overlook its shortcomings.
But on a B-road the exaggerated vertical movement was downright unpleasant. In hindsight, I wish i'd spent a few ££ on Eibachs but given the ZF box was making a proper racket outside of warranty, I got rid after 6 months and plotted a route back to an RS Megane.
ZX10R NIN said:
No it's actually quite cheap my rear shock on my bike cost a smidge (and you fit it yourself) under 1.5k, so getting 4 shocks & springs for fitted for under 2k could be considered a bargain.
2k seems a bit much unless that's including all the other tinkering (ARB's and wotnot)?I fitted the B12 Kit on the Z4c and it's pretty decent upgrade...around £700 + fitting
It's a slippery slope once you start tinkering!
I ended up also doing - new control arms front and rear (adjustable), new bush's, rtab limiters, spacers.. (mine's on 90k so I felt it was all due a refresh)
This article helps explain why I tend to find German execs a little harsh on the road, but I had no idea that 200kph rule was a thing. I always try and find the 'adaptive' suspension when looking at used BMWs, but this makes me think that the standard with the Birds kit would be a better bet.
In terms of the pricing, they'd have to allow for the R&D costs in the price; if the research, prototyping and workshop time cost £30k, and they only recon to sell 1000 units, then there's £300 before you even put anything in a box. £2000 seems reasonable for something that transforms the car to such a degree.
Free advertorials like this help keep costs down, I guess.
In terms of the pricing, they'd have to allow for the R&D costs in the price; if the research, prototyping and workshop time cost £30k, and they only recon to sell 1000 units, then there's £300 before you even put anything in a box. £2000 seems reasonable for something that transforms the car to such a degree.
Free advertorials like this help keep costs down, I guess.
Definitely following this with interest. Opted out of an M140i recently because the suspension just couldn't keep up at pace, which felt like such a waste as that engine really is an utter gem. I'd have liked to have tried a manual just to see if it was any good too, I felt the autobox was great, but it kept trying to shift down mid corner and really really upset the already unsteady applecart.
As others have said, it felt like a mini-GT car rather than a hot hatch. Though, in terms of straight line speed, it was insanely fun.
Ended up in a manual Golf R, but I didn't get as much of a decent run out in one. Noticed the passive dampers struggle with a similar issue of high speed rebound damping being a little too strong, it ends up feeling like it's floating over high frequency bumps and compressions. Not as badly as the BMW mind, but still, 9/10ths rather than 8/10ths on a B road and it's losing it's composure fast.
As others have said, it felt like a mini-GT car rather than a hot hatch. Though, in terms of straight line speed, it was insanely fun.
Ended up in a manual Golf R, but I didn't get as much of a decent run out in one. Noticed the passive dampers struggle with a similar issue of high speed rebound damping being a little too strong, it ends up feeling like it's floating over high frequency bumps and compressions. Not as badly as the BMW mind, but still, 9/10ths rather than 8/10ths on a B road and it's losing it's composure fast.
The standard suspension really was the only criticism I had of my 66 plate lci car. It was so bumpy and the B roads I used to get some hoons were spoilt having to be cautious on nervousness over bumps.
Will be interesting to follow this once it's done more miles and see what else you change ?
Will be interesting to follow this once it's done more miles and see what else you change ?
To the op, do you find that this setup has got rid of the wobbly/nervous feeling that these cars suffer from? Ive got one, got an lsd, eibach springs, spacers, tuned to approximately 400hp and tbh its not great, feels almost dangerous sometimes and not settled/planted at all.
Im in two minds if to get a kit like this and some arb's or sell it and get something else.
Im in two minds if to get a kit like this and some arb's or sell it and get something else.
We have had our M135i for four years. My wife's car in the week and mine at the weekend. Overall it has been very good. No reliability problems. It is just big enough for wife, daughter and dog whilst still being relatively small (we did look at the current 3 series but that is as big or bigger than the 5 series we used to have). As a GT car it is great. 8 speed auto makes driving around town easy and the power means that when you need a bit of oomph it has plenty in reserves.
However, can't say that it is great to drive on country roads. Although we have had it 4 years it has never tempted me to go for an early morning drive.
These mods sound interesting but I think my current car is actual okay for what we use it for.
However, can't say that it is great to drive on country roads. Although we have had it 4 years it has never tempted me to go for an early morning drive.
These mods sound interesting but I think my current car is actual okay for what we use it for.
Test drove the Birds M235i recently, was very capable, just drove exactly how it should out of the box. Full confidence to push on over bumpy surface.
My 135 has adaptive damping which costs more to remove sadly which prices their package out of range for me.
Have read a lot about Eibach springs - are they worth it?
My 135 has adaptive damping which costs more to remove sadly which prices their package out of range for me.
Have read a lot about Eibach springs - are they worth it?
KPB1973 said:
Its a car that really impresses on casual acquaintance due to the nature of the engine, noise, RWD balance etc.
I was blown away on a test drive, and I think a lot of journos 'fell' for this too. It really does feel unique in its class and its easy to overlook its shortcomings.
But on a B-road the exaggerated vertical movement was downright unpleasant...
Exactly how I felt about my 235. The final straw was bouncing along on a familiar stretch of motorway which had been fine in other cars. Shame, the good bits were very good. I was blown away on a test drive, and I think a lot of journos 'fell' for this too. It really does feel unique in its class and its easy to overlook its shortcomings.
But on a B-road the exaggerated vertical movement was downright unpleasant...
I've had the b series kit fitted to my 1M for a couple of months now and the improvement to how the car can now be hammered down a bumpy undulating b road is massive.
The car is now just so much fun and soaks up anything that you can throw at it.
As for the cost I personally think it's good value for a completely developed specifically for your cars model set up and comes out a lot cheaper than the coilover sets that I also considered that are only as good as the guy who sets them up and have so much scope for getting the set up wrong!
The car is now just so much fun and soaks up anything that you can throw at it.
As for the cost I personally think it's good value for a completely developed specifically for your cars model set up and comes out a lot cheaper than the coilover sets that I also considered that are only as good as the guy who sets them up and have so much scope for getting the set up wrong!
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