RE: Kia Stinger GT-S: Driven
Discussion
aaron_2000 said:
Those are now seen as desirable, they were quirky and some design actually went into them. Show me any of those values in a Kia Pride.
OK. You seem like a loon protesting too much or last word merchant. This thread isn't for you.I don't own any Kias but I am really keen to know what people think goes on in a state of the art car plant? Do zee germans have pots of magic dust that the koreans don't? You do realise that the koreans have been integrating all of the assembly and quality processes that the germans/japanese use. Not too mention a work ethic that makes the germans look like lazy feckers.
And to top it off, spitting your dummy out because a 380ps engine needs servicing more frequently. I would never let such an engine go more than a year without new oil...
Edited by Catatafish on Sunday 8th October 14:10
IJB1959 said:
Fair comment on some points, but I have seen one at my local dealership. All I can say is it is a good effort, but the price point is wrong for the quality of build.
What do you call 'quality of build'? I'm not interested in interior plastics, more in the ability to go for 10 years/150'000 miles without the sort of catastrophic mechanical failure the German brands seem so prone to. Kia and Hyundai seem to be rather better on that score - unlike the German stuff, I'm not aware of any Kia disasters.Colonial said:
TomScrut said:
Wow, as a comparison my S5 needs its first service after about 17000 and nearly 2 years.
Its how they pay for that 7 year warranty!
Alternatively it's how they have the faith to offer a 7 year warranty. Its how they pay for that 7 year warranty!
That to me means that they want the revenues from the servicing in exchange for the warranty.
My partner's 1.7 Sportage needed servicing at 10k miles (as would be expected) but it was dearer than my second year service on my Golf R IIRC.
Catatafish said:
OK. You seem like a loon protesting too much or last word merchant. This thread isn't for you.
I don't own any Kias but I am really keen to know what people think goes on in a state of the art car plant? Do zee germans have pots of magic dust that the koreans don't? You do realise that the koreans have been integrating all of the assembly and quality processes that the germans/japanese use. Not too mention a work ethic that makes the germans look like lazy feckers.
And to top it off, spitting your dummy out because a 380ps engine needs servicing more frequently. I would never let such an engine go more than a year without new oil...
I stand corrected, the Korean cars from the 1990's were cutting edge and had designs one step above Pininfarina. You don't seem to care/understand that I really like the new Stinger, and believe that Korean cars are what Japanese cars were many years ago. They're just as well built, if not better than cars of the same price. All I'm saying is they've come an extremely long way from cars such as the Kia Pride. Come back to me when you gain the ability to understand simple statements because I'm sure you're gonna misconstrue this one too. I don't own any Kias but I am really keen to know what people think goes on in a state of the art car plant? Do zee germans have pots of magic dust that the koreans don't? You do realise that the koreans have been integrating all of the assembly and quality processes that the germans/japanese use. Not too mention a work ethic that makes the germans look like lazy feckers.
And to top it off, spitting your dummy out because a 380ps engine needs servicing more frequently. I would never let such an engine go more than a year without new oil...
Edited by Catatafish on Sunday 8th October 14:10
TomScrut said:
As far as I am aware the usual "can be serviced elsewhere using genuine parts" on a 3y warranty isn't applicable on the 7 years, as I think the case with the Vauxhall lifetime warranty.
That to me means that they want the revenues from the servicing in exchange for the warranty.
My partner's 1.7 Sportage needed servicing at 10k miles (as would be expected) but it was dearer than my second year service on my Golf R IIRC.
Wrong. That to me means that they want the revenues from the servicing in exchange for the warranty.
My partner's 1.7 Sportage needed servicing at 10k miles (as would be expected) but it was dearer than my second year service on my Golf R IIRC.
My other halfs kia ceed estate has been serviced outside of the network since the second service, just under 100k miles now had its first work done. ( cruise control switch and something on the air con.)
20k service intervals on the ceed.
I really like this stinger but 6k service intervals is a deal breaker for me. Ain't nobody got time for that.
IJB1959 said:
tomic said:
You're all wrong I'm afraid guys. Whenever I drop the kids off at school in the part of London I live in, you'll notice sportswear clad, tattooed parents in BMW's and Mercs and an army of very middle class looking (and sounding) people in matching KIA Sportage's.
The roads are also full of toerags in financed 1-Series, Mercs and Audi's around here too, but all of the posh houses have non premium 4x4's with Bike Racks on the roof parked outside them.
German cars are about as classy as Chlamydia these days and I'm getting out soon.
This is the most ridiculous and confused society assumption of a post I have seen in ages from the usual wanabee warriors on PH!The roads are also full of toerags in financed 1-Series, Mercs and Audi's around here too, but all of the posh houses have non premium 4x4's with Bike Racks on the roof parked outside them.
German cars are about as classy as Chlamydia these days and I'm getting out soon.
Edited by IJB1959 on Saturday 7th October 13:31
Pesty said:
TomScrut said:
As far as I am aware the usual "can be serviced elsewhere using genuine parts" on a 3y warranty isn't applicable on the 7 years, as I think the case with the Vauxhall lifetime warranty.
That to me means that they want the revenues from the servicing in exchange for the warranty.
My partner's 1.7 Sportage needed servicing at 10k miles (as would be expected) but it was dearer than my second year service on my Golf R IIRC.
Wrong. That to me means that they want the revenues from the servicing in exchange for the warranty.
My partner's 1.7 Sportage needed servicing at 10k miles (as would be expected) but it was dearer than my second year service on my Golf R IIRC.
My other halfs kia ceed estate has been serviced outside of the network since the second service, just under 100k miles now had its first work done. ( cruise control switch and something on the air con.)
20k service intervals on the ceed.
I really like this stinger but 6k service intervals is a deal breaker for me. Ain't nobody got time for that.
The 6k service interval on the Stinger isn't very good nonetheless given at least one of its rivals can go 3 times as long.
ReaperCushions said:
IJB1959 said:
tomic said:
You're all wrong I'm afraid guys. Whenever I drop the kids off at school in the part of London I live in, you'll notice sportswear clad, tattooed parents in BMW's and Mercs and an army of very middle class looking (and sounding) people in matching KIA Sportage's.
The roads are also full of toerags in financed 1-Series, Mercs and Audi's around here too, but all of the posh houses have non premium 4x4's with Bike Racks on the roof parked outside them.
German cars are about as classy as Chlamydia these days and I'm getting out soon.
This is the most ridiculous and confused society assumption of a post I have seen in ages from the usual wanabee warriors on PH!The roads are also full of toerags in financed 1-Series, Mercs and Audi's around here too, but all of the posh houses have non premium 4x4's with Bike Racks on the roof parked outside them.
German cars are about as classy as Chlamydia these days and I'm getting out soon.
Edited by IJB1959 on Saturday 7th October 13:31
I do admit that there are a lot of cost options available on the cars that are aimed at exactly the kind of person you are talking about though. The German cars are configurable such that you can make them a chav wagon if you want to but don't come like that by default. The RS and M cars are the two lots that can be the least tasteful I think. The Stinger has TURBO written across the top of the engine cover and has plastic vents stuck in the bonnet so it is also a bit guilty here.
Edited by TomScrut on Monday 9th October 08:12
Given hat BMW are the masters of low tax brackets and hence low BiK, I'd imagine the majority of new 3/4-series are company cars? I know last time I looked (which admittedly was a number of years ago) the 320d ED worked out as just about the cheapest decent sized car on our scheme.
The buying demographic for a 440i will be very different than that of a 420d.
The buying demographic for a 440i will be very different than that of a 420d.
TomScrut said:
As far as I am aware the usual "can be serviced elsewhere using genuine parts" on a 3y warranty isn't applicable on the 7 years.
I can report from personal knowledge that you are absolutely incorrect about that, notwithstanding that there are very specific laws relating to anti-competitive contracts that make it illegal.kambites said:
Given hat BMW are the masters of low tax brackets and hence low BiK, I'd imagine the majority of new 3/4-series are company cars? I know last time I looked (which admittedly was a number of years ago) the 320d ED worked out as just about the cheapest decent sized car on our scheme.
The buying demographic for a 440i will be very different than that of a 420d.
The x40is are very much a niche product IMO, due to the x35xds mostly I'd say. I presume this is due to the fuel economy, similar performance and 4wd. The 40is are the only RWDs in their class other than the Stinger and XE-S, with the biggest players (335xd/435xd/S4/S5/C43) all being 4WD. Maybe RWD is a desirable trait in these but I would want the security of the 4WD to not having it and I think a lot of people agree given the numbers of said cars you see on the road.The buying demographic for a 440i will be very different than that of a 420d.
iSore said:
IJB1959 said:
Fair comment on some points, but I have seen one at my local dealership. All I can say is it is a good effort, but the price point is wrong for the quality of build.
What do you call 'quality of build'? I'm not interested in interior plastics, more in the ability to go for 10 years/150'000 miles without the sort of catastrophic mechanical failure the German brands seem so prone to. Kia and Hyundai seem to be rather better on that score - unlike the German stuff, I'm not aware of any Kia disasters.Edited by IJB1959 on Monday 9th October 10:20
In theory the long warranty should help prop up residuals which should in turn bring down leasing/HP costs.
Kia certainly have exceptional residuals in their lower-end cars but this is competing in a rather different sector agaist manufacturers who are very good at playing the finance game so it's a rather different proposition. I think they're going to struggle to make it cheap enough in terms of TCO to compete with the Germans, especially with 6-month service intervals!
ETA: In terms of build quality I think Kia and BMW are difficult to compare. BMW produce highly complex engines which are of fairly average reliability; Kia (mostly) produce simple engines which are highly reliable. This thing is obviously not a simple, old-fashioned engine so how reliable it will be really remains to be seen.
Kia certainly have exceptional residuals in their lower-end cars but this is competing in a rather different sector agaist manufacturers who are very good at playing the finance game so it's a rather different proposition. I think they're going to struggle to make it cheap enough in terms of TCO to compete with the Germans, especially with 6-month service intervals!
ETA: In terms of build quality I think Kia and BMW are difficult to compare. BMW produce highly complex engines which are of fairly average reliability; Kia (mostly) produce simple engines which are highly reliable. This thing is obviously not a simple, old-fashioned engine so how reliable it will be really remains to be seen.
Edited by kambites on Monday 9th October 10:24
kambites said:
In theory the long warranty should help prop up residuals which should in turn bring down leasing/HP costs.
Kia certainly have exceptional residuals in their lower-end cars but this is competing in a rather different sector agaist manufacturers who are very good at playing the finance game so it's a rather different proposition. I think they're going to struggle to make it cheap enough in terms of TCO to compete with the Germans, especially with 6-month service intervals!
ETA: In terms of build quality I think Kia and BMW are difficult to compare. BMW produce highly complex engines which are of fairly average reliability; Kia (mostly) produce simple engines which are highly reliable. This thing is obviously not a simple, old-fashioned engine so how reliable it will be really remains to be seen.
It might be old fashioned looking at the MPG figures and service intervals vs its rivals. Yes the Germans are good at getting good test results that are difficult to match in real life (the issue here is the test not the manufacturers by the way) but IF this engine is bad on fuel in the real world vs their German counterparts that could be a lot to do with how up to date the engine actually is. Same goes for the servicing.Kia certainly have exceptional residuals in their lower-end cars but this is competing in a rather different sector agaist manufacturers who are very good at playing the finance game so it's a rather different proposition. I think they're going to struggle to make it cheap enough in terms of TCO to compete with the Germans, especially with 6-month service intervals!
ETA: In terms of build quality I think Kia and BMW are difficult to compare. BMW produce highly complex engines which are of fairly average reliability; Kia (mostly) produce simple engines which are highly reliable. This thing is obviously not a simple, old-fashioned engine so how reliable it will be really remains to be seen.
Edited by kambites on Monday 9th October 10:24
TomScrut said:
It might be old fashioned looking at the MPG figures and service intervals vs its rivals. Yes the Germans are good at getting good test results that are difficult to match in real life (the issue here is the test not the manufacturers by the way) but IF this engine is bad on fuel in the real world vs their German counterparts that could be a lot to do with how up to date the engine actually is. Same goes for the servicing.
Two possibilities there - either Kia have attempted to tune it to NEDC and the engine genuinely has rubbish economy; or they haven't even tried so it's actually returning realistic figures (which would probably put it roughly on a par with things like the 440i). Given that NEDC is soon to be abandoned, I can see why a company which is only expecting a tiny market-share in Europe anyway wouldn't bother. I haven't the faintest idea which is the case though.
kambites said:
TomScrut said:
It might be old fashioned looking at the MPG figures and service intervals vs its rivals. Yes the Germans are good at getting good test results that are difficult to match in real life (the issue here is the test not the manufacturers by the way) but IF this engine is bad on fuel in the real world vs their German counterparts that could be a lot to do with how up to date the engine actually is. Same goes for the servicing.
Two possibilities there - either Kia have attempted to tune it to NEDC and the engine genuinely has rubbish economy; or they haven't even tried so it's actually returning realistic figures (which would probably put it roughly on a par with things like the 440i). Given that NEDC is soon to be abandoned, I can see why a company which is only expecting a tiny market-share in Europe anyway wouldn't bother. I haven't the faintest idea which is the case though.
There is an element of tuning it to the cycle but driving like the NEDC cycle suggests would be far more economical than normal use in the real world anyway, so if it has only got 28 MPG on the NEDC test and the competition are 28 MPG in real life (my S5 has averaged 28-29 MPG) then it probably will be worse than the competition.
shrektus said:
Dog Star said:
I like this, however it’s far too expensive. What you save on purchase you’ll lose many times over in depreciation against the German competition.
It really needs to be ten grand cheaper.
I don't think the German competition is exactly depreciation proof is it.It really needs to be ten grand cheaper.
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