RE: Kia Stinger GT-S: Driven

[Conrod Straight]

I work at a Kia dealership here in Aus, and had a very pleasant and smokey drive day in this last week. I can't disgree with anything in this review but wonder, do Kia simply concede the UK market isn't for them? Here in Aus the price is the same, but a 440i is GBP65,000, a 25 grand difference. When taking that into consideration here, the cheaper interior for example, isn't really a problem - it was never competing with the Germans in the first place. I wonder how many other markets are in this situation where the Kia doesn't come 'just a but under' but is in an entirely different segment to what would be UK rivals?

[Colonial]

Conrod Straight said:

I work at a Kia dealership here in Aus, and had a very pleasant and smokey drive day in this last week. I can't disgree with anything in this review but wonder, do Kia simply concede the UK market isn't for them? Here in Aus the price is the same, but a 440i is GBP65,000, a 25 grand difference. When taking that into consideration here, the cheaper interior for example, isn't really a problem - it was never competing with the Germans in the first place. I wonder how many other markets are in this situation where the Kia doesn't come 'just a but under' but is in an entirely different segment to what would be UK rivals?

I saw one blast past me about a fortnight ago on the M1 motorway just near the Hawkesbury River Bridge. Wasn't hanging around and looked very good on the road.

Very much targetted at the US and Australian market I think. And incredibly well priced.

[CaptainSensib1e]

Aeroresh said:

I dont know what discounts Kia will be offering but considering the discounts offered on the competition this car is basically a similar cost is if they dont heavily discount.....Kia are dreaming if they think they'll compete on the same playingfield at this time.

Needs to be at least 10k cheaper imo and even then its novelty value.

You can get serious discounts on most new Kia's, reckon these will be available for around £35k or less, which starts to make a bit more sense

[daemon]

GTEYE said:

So the overall conclusion seems to be...not quite as good as the German rivals....which despite a number of PH keyboard warriors beliefs on the previous thread...is entirely to be expected.

Sadly, I'm sure its a good car, but for £40k it needs to be a better car - and that's why other than to some dreamers on PH it will fail in the UK market at least.

A 340i (or 440i GC) remains a far more desirable ownership prospect at possibly (after discount) less money.

+1

A C43 4Matic can be had for £41,000 after discount.

https://www.drivethedeal.com/buy-a-new-car/MERCEDE...

Or an Audi S5 Sportback
https://www.drivethedeal.com/buy-a-new-car/AUDI/A5...

[James Junior]

I've admired Kia for a few years now. Their modern cars look good, are well built and of course then there's that warranty... I personally think the Proceed GT is the best looking hot hatch on the market and on the rare occasion I see an Optima on the road I always think it a really handsome and eye catching car. Not so convinced by thie Stinger in pictures, but as is often the case with these things, you have to see cars in the metal to really apprecaiate their looks (or not).

Not that hatches or performance saloons are my thing, but if I was in the market the thing that would kill it for me I think would be the lack of a full manual paddleshift mode. I often take a week or two out in the summer to go on driving tours and drive my cars hard. I can picture the scene, pedalling it hard over a mountain pass or through a twisting turning forest road. You're on it and stay in third for a long sequence of bends and then...it has slipped back into auto mode again and you've lost control. Don't think I could live with that in a performance car.

Good for them for having a go at however and for continuing to move deeper into performance car territory. It's always good to have a leftfield alternative and it sounds like a pretty decent car. They can only get even better from here.

[culpz]

I like it. It's different. I'm not saying any more in sheer fear of the opinion dissectors.

"Over and out "

[D200]

culpz said:

I like it. It's different. I'm not saying any more in sheer fear of the opinion dissectors.

"Over and out "

Some highlights from the review


engine feels soft

power delivery not great

overly contrived imitation V6 engine noise played over the speakers

steering not great

autobox not great

The interior quality of it isnt great – plasticy etc

Its nearly 1800kg

And its MPG is very bad – never mind comparing it to 340i etc it has worse MPG than a C63 or M3, same as an M5 and worse than a E63S



‘a Kia designed to beat BMW, Audi and Mercedes saloons simply can't afford any kind of vulnerability. The Stinger has several of those, and probably isn't too likely to tempt many totally rational thinkers out of their beloved German execs’


Its different yes

If this was priced at a much lower price point [need to be at least 10 or 12k cheaper] then its failings would be much more acceptable, but at its current price point they are not

[D200]

James Junior said:

I've admired Kia for a few years now. Their modern cars look good, are well built and of course then there's that warranty... I personally think the Proceed GT is the best looking hot hatch on the market and on the rare occasion I see an Optima on the road I always think it a really handsome and eye catching car. Not so convinced by thie Stinger in pictures, but as is often the case with these things, you have to see cars in the metal to really apprecaiate their looks (or not).

Not that hatches or performance saloons are my thing, but if I was in the market the thing that would kill it for me I think would be the lack of a full manual paddleshift mode. I often take a week or two out in the summer to go on driving tours and drive my cars hard. I can picture the scene, pedalling it hard over a mountain pass or through a twisting turning forest road. You're on it and stay in third for a long sequence of bends and then...it has slipped back into auto mode again and you've lost control. Don't think I could live with that in a performance car.

Good for them for having a go at however and for continuing to move deeper into performance car territory. It's always good to have a leftfield alternative and it sounds like a pretty decent car. They can only get even better from here.

I also remember the first time i saw an Optima - a car at the time I didn’t know existed - looked great i thought. Then I looked up reviews of it - read Autocar’s - its gets terrible reviews! Same with the Kia Sportage's etc

This is why I just didn’t think this car would be great - based on all Kia's previous cars

Even if some people say these are considerable more desirable than BMW's and Kia has much better engineering quality than BMW etc - I suspected it wouldn't be quite as good and sounds like I was right

I wish that car was better so it would put pressure on BMW and Mercedes to improve their cars [and warranties etc] but sadly it’s not

[spreadsheet monkey]

D200 said:

I also remember the first time i saw an Optima - a car at the time I didn’t know existed - looked great i thought. Then I looked up reviews of it - read Autocar’s - its gets terrible reviews! Same with the Kia Sportage's etc

This is why I just didn’t think this car would be great - based on all Kia's previous cars

Even if some people say these are considerable more desirable than BMW's and Kia has much better engineering quality than BMW etc - I suspected it wouldn't be quite as good and sounds like I was right

I wish that car was better so it would put pressure on BMW and Mercedes to improve their cars [and warranties etc] but sadly it’s not

Evo gives the Stinger 4 stars, and so does Car magazine:
http://www.evo.co.uk/kia/stinger-gt
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/kia/kia-s...

Autocar has never been a fan of Hyundai or Kia. Presumably BMW and VW/Audi spend more on advertising in their magazines.

[r11co]

Wills2 said:

r11co said:

Norbury90 said:

MPG: 28.5mpg

I feel that this is a problem.

Go back to your four-pot diesel, m8. That is none-too-shabby a figure for a car with this level of performance (and probably nearer to the real-world figures than the lies quoted by certain German marques).

As headline combined figure it's low. My old 560hp 2 tonne M5 had the same but nearly 200hp more from 4.4ltrs.

Sure!

Wills2 said:

It's poor when rivals like the 440i allegedly achieve over 40mpg on the same test.

FTFY.

The halo around the German marques means they can get away with quoting these "achievable in only the most exceptional and unlikely to be replicated circumstances" figures and people still quote them as if they are anything but slimmest-grain-of-truth marketing puff. They can even be caught out gaming the system, have legal action taken against them, fined heavily yet still carry-off the air of superiority as if nothing happened, protected by a swell of sycophantic opinion.

If a non-halo marque attempted to get away with the same thing they'd be slaughtered, so quoting more realistic and 'honest' figures is their only option.

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 4th October 10:14

[Usget]

Are there any cars of this ilk where the manufacturers have resisted the temptation to play brum brum noises over the stereo?

If so, that's the one I'd have...

[spreadsheet monkey]

CoolHands said:

No one will actually buy this.

Dealer Principals at Kia's 180 dealerships in the UK will all have one each.
Then there's Kia UK's press fleet.
Struggling after that.

[D200]

r11co said:

FTFY.

The halo around the German marques means they can get away with quoting these "achievable in only the most exceptional and unlikely to be replicated circumstances" figures and people still quote them as if they are anything but slimmest-grain-of-truth marketing puff. They can even be caught out gaming the system, have legal action taken against them, fined heavily yet still carry-off the air of superiority as if nothing happened, protected by a swell of sycophantic opinion.

If a non-halo marque attempted to get away with the same thing they'd be slaughtered, so quoting more realistic and 'honest' figures is their only option.

Edited by r11co on Wednesday 4th October 10:14

I don’t know what planet you are living on or what your point is…

Fact is, real world MPG of a 340i [or any competitor] will be much better than this Kia

Kia claims 28.5 which is atrocious, as stated worse than even stuff like a Merc E63S!

It’s actual will be lower than 28.5 - as some suggest probably about 22 real mpg

Even if it get closer to its claimed MPG than Mercedes or BMW it will still be much much worse

The manufactures give out the claimed mpg figures based on the industry wide measuring techniques – it’s not their fault they are not real word figures and this needs to be changed


I don’t know why you think Kia’s claimed MPG is much more accurate than the dreaded nazi mobiles?

A Kia Optima for example claims 64.2 mpg but gets 44.7

And it not just the German cars by the way, Toyota with their claimed figures are even worse – e.g. the Prius claims 94MPG but gets 62MPG

[British Beef]

At first glance I thought it was the New TVR !!

Time to go to specsavers perhaps!

[TomScrut]

Usget said:

Are there any cars of this ilk where the manufacturers have resisted the temptation to play brum brum noises over the stereo?

If so, that's the one I'd have...

I don't think the S5 does (I have one) or if it does it's not obvious. Most of the noise comes from the back, which is better than putting fake engine noises in there to make up for a quiet engine IMO

[Dave Hedgehog]

GTEYE said:

A 340i (or 440i GC) remains a far more desirable ownership prospect at possibly (after discount) less money.

not for me, the 340i is an old mans cruiser IMO

at the 40k price point the Golf R would be my alternative to this

[culpz]

It appears KIA have done something similar with this as they did with the Pro Cee'd GT. That was a fast hatch the size of a Golf but only had performance to match something like a Fiesta ST and a price bracket somewhere in between. However, with it being Golf size, it was heavier and slower and worse on fuel than all of them. It was considered more of a warm hatch than hot because of this.

This new KIA Stinger is more the size of a 5 Series, yet has a price bracket and performance figures similar to a 440i. This time, though, they have made a proper fast saloon. It's clearly not perfect but much more accomplished than their hot-hatch attempt. It is a bit quicker than the BMW and will have more kit as standard but it is worse on fuel, heavier and doesn't quite have the dynamic edge.

Edited by culpz on Wednesday 4th October 11:53

[D200]

spreadsheet monkey said:

Evo gives the Stinger 4 stars, and so does Car magazine:
http://www.evo.co.uk/kia/stinger-gt
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/kia/kia-s...

Autocar has never been a fan of Hyundai or Kia. Presumably BMW and VW/Audi spend more on advertising in their magazines.

I read the reviews

It’s a fist drive based on 2 laps of the ‘ring

Evo basically slate it but give it 4 stars, Car much the same

They all said engine not great, box not great, steering not great, its heavy, sore of fuel, not great inside

They are understandably giving Kia benefit of the doubt as they are new to this segment, want to encourage them etc – if BMW or Merc released the same car it would get 2 stars



So, you are saying Autocar only give BMWs etc better reviews than Hyundai or Kia as they advertise more?

Good to know.

So I now know all BMWs and Audi’s are massively inferior to all Kia’s and Hyundai’s – thanks for clearing that up

[r11co]

D200 said:

I don’t know what planet you are living on or what your point is…

Fact is, real world MPG of a 340i [or any competitor] will be much better than this Kia.

Fact? No. Assertion, perhaps. No-one can say until some empirical evidence is available, but you have kind of proved my point that certain people will assume the non-halo marque will be inferior because, well, just because.

D200 said:

It’s actual will be lower than 28.5 - as some suggest probably about 22 real mpg.

Weasel words!


I'm currently running a 3 litre, 6 cylinder engined BMW which has a reputation on this site for 'remarkably good MPG for what it is'. The figures quoted (usually by people who have never actually ran the same car with the same engine) are bullst of course and the 'real-world' figure I experience is just over half the number the car has an (undeserved) reputation of being capable of.

Just saying like. When people tell me that a 440i is going to achieve consistently better the MPG figures than my wife's Suzuki Swift Sport (a car that weighs a bit more than a 6-pack of fizzy drink cans and has a sewing machine for an engine) I call bullst.

[spreadsheet monkey]

D200 said:

So, you are saying Autocar only give BMWs etc better reviews than Hyundai or Kia as they advertise more?

I’m saying Autocar have a massive boner for all things German, yes.

The advertising revenue comment was tongue in cheek, but I don’t think this is a massively controversial view. It’s been discussed many times before on PH.

I’ve never owned a Kia or Hyundai, but I’m pleased they’ve had the balls to try to push their range upmarket and not just limit the Stinger to a weedy four cylinder diesel in the UK.

They may not quite be challenging the S5 and 440i just yet, but as a first effort in this segment from a manufacturer that was only selling rebadged Mazda 121s not that long ago, I don’t think they’ve done badly.