Ask a Service Manager anything...anything at all.

[Gad-Westy]

defblade said:

deeen said:

Why has the heater on my E36 2.5 suddenly stopped working?

Been a good few years since I had an E36, but IIRC, the valve in the engine bay that diverts hot water to the heater matrix is famously prone to failure. (IIRC again, a sort of twin pot thing near the back on the passenger side of the block).

Yep. Heater diverter valve. Although air locks are very common too. An evening park on a very steep hill, nose upward with the rad cap off can sometimes do the trick.

[Sheepshanks]

super7 said:

How does a Mercedes dealer who never gives an inch, justify charging close to £600 to service E-class Convertible which is 2yrs old and with 12000 miles on it..

I have a Merc and it's obvious the dealers have been leaned on to make Mercedes ServiceCare plans look more attractive.

[super7]

What really p***ses me off is that I only bought the car 11mths ago with 8k on it. So having done 4k miles i'm now expected to pay £600.... I will be having words with the Service Manager....

I think this is purely because it's 2 years old, which overrides the mileage etc etc.

My mates GLC has done 36k miles and has just had it's 1st B1 service? Go figure.....

[lee_fr200]

super7 said:

What really p***ses me off is that I only bought the car 11mths ago with 8k on it. So having done 4k miles i'm now expected to pay £600.... I will be having words with the Service Manager....

I think this is purely because it's 2 years old, which overrides the mileage etc etc.

My mates GLC has done 36k miles and has just had it's 1st B1 service? Go figure.....

In all fairness you've got to have expected to pay a premium price for Mercedes service?

I've got to say vw was quite reasonable, I put away £60 a month towards maintainance and it's stood me well with service tyres and brake pads so far

Cost so far replacement front tyres £90 each -£180
Rear tyres £90 each £180
Brake pads -£159
1st and 2nd service free but 3rd service was £200

And I'm about to order another set of fronts! And will need a major service in 7k miles

[Davie]

jonwm said:

I have always found service advisors great, I won’t lie BMW and Audi have the better looking advisors ;-)

Question though, how many times a week does someone come in with the most ridiculous problem like “rattle when doing 38.7mph and I want a courtesy car till it’s resolved or I’m rejecting this 7 year old 100k golf”

Three stand out during my time in dealers.

First, a young lady... type who had Daddy wrapped round her finger... went the full length of the complaints process as her 2 month old Polo had a very faint jingly noise from the dash. Obviously Daddy opted to write letters, emails, call UK head office before he finally opted to pay us a visit but stormed in with the "I've spoken to your head office..." sort of crap which to be honest, just gets your back up straight away.

Anyways, having been spoken to little crap by this guy and his little princess, took the car for a quick drive with her to listen to this noise that had been there for a month. After a mile, stopped, got out and went under the drivers seat and pulled out one of those chocolate foil wrapped rabbits with a wee bell on it's neck. Problem solved. No apology.


Second, a call passed up from the front of house team. lady going ballistic as her S40 had suffered a puncture and stranded at the side of the road, she found the centre arm rest cubby hole was jammed and that's where the lock nut lived. She refused to call the breakdown guys and instead, opted to drive the car to us with the threat that "we" will be paying for the damage... we will... really?

She arrived, red faced and foul mouthed having said she'd spoken to Volvo and the Daily Mail etc etc and advised she wasn't paying a penny. I went out and right enough, said cubby hole release button was solid. She took a seat and proceeded to hit all the other nice people in the showroom with her opinion of us, Volvo, dealers... lovely. Took the car in and used a small metal ruler to carefully slide down the front of the cubby hole to ease the clasp back and it opened and revealed a pile of CD and on top, a very ornate pink tampon holder that was just the right length to be pushing against the clasp, thus stopping it from moving back and releasing. Took it to her and in front of her gathered audience advised Volvo nor we would be paying as misplaced tampon holders weren't covered by the warranty. She left... in the car... with the puncture.


Third and final story for now... an utterly bizarre discussion in the showroom with a couple who wanted to reject their new Touran as the dual zone climate wasn't dual zone enough. She has her's at 26deg as she's a cold person, he has his a 18deg because he's always warm but there wasn't a significant difference in temperature from her side of the car to his... having explained it was all the same airspace and that there wasn't an invisible barrier up the centre of the car I gave up and left i to the sales guys. No end of training equips you to deal with people of that mentality.

Glad I'm out to be honest, but I'd go back... for a day.

[iphonedyou]

Ninja59 said:

One thing I do find hugely frustrating is that some of the more senior SM's hide away fearful of customers what the hell is that all about? (my previous Volvo dealer SM did this hugely it was like trying to track down a bloody diamond - I knew every single one of the rest of the team, and I got to only meet him once after the car clearly had a failing DMF and then I wanted to lamp the sod). In a sense I feel lucky with the current BMW one and the previous Mazda one as they have actually been "approachable" instead of just appearing when there has been an utter screw up.

Why / how do you know every member of a dealer team?

We have two VWs, I have them both serviced at the main dealer - and I still managed to book an appointment with the wrong dealer last time, such is my total disinterest.

[jan8p]

Davie said:

Third and final story for now... an utterly bizarre discussion in the showroom with a couple who wanted to reject their new Touran as the dual zone climate wasn't dual zone enough. She has her's at 26deg as she's a cold person, he has his a 18deg because he's always warm but there wasn't a significant difference in temperature from her side of the car to his... having explained it was all the same airspace and that there wasn't an invisible barrier up the centre of the car I gave up and left i to the sales guys. No end of training equips you to deal with people of that mentality.

Glad I'm out to be honest, but I'd go back... for a day.

[Rat_Fink_67]

Willy Nilly said:

Intead of making your show rooms look like a fancy bristro, why not scale that back a bit to reduce you overheads so you can bring the hourly rate down and stop all of the upselling that drives people away?

I'd much rather my car was looked after by factory trained people, but as a general rule you just take the piss. A a result, you just end up doing service work on almost new, well very young anyway, cars so never see older cars that require repirs and fault finding. So not only are you too expensive, you haven't the experience of the indepenant garages.

What you need to appreciate regarding showrooms and facilities etc, is that the standards are laid out and enforced by the manufacturers, not to companies who own the franchises, and certainly not the service managers. I'm in the trade, and agree some of the places are over the top; ipads to view your MOT on, on site cafes that charge about £7 for a coffee, brand or vehicle specific "lounge areas" are all pointless excess to me, but the dealers as a general rule have zero input. If a dealer doesn't like the standards or refuses to meet them? Then the badge is taken down and the manufacturer offers their product elsewhere or will have that particular company's right to their territory removed.

As far as experience goes, the group I'm part of has at least 3 I can think of with at least 30 years of brand specific experience, probably another dozen or so with 20 plus, and 1 I can think of who has been in the workshop for 47 years and still has a couple to go! I've worked at dealerships and at independents, and the latter aren't always as clued up as you seem to suggest, believe me! When it comes to cutting corners, I've seen far worse in little independent garages than I ever have in a main franchise. Consider who it is most important to for ensuring regular cashflow is coming through the doors, it isn't the large multinational corporations.

[Sheepshanks]

super7 said:

What really p***ses me off is that I only bought the car 11mths ago with 8k on it. So having done 4k miles i'm now expected to pay £600.... I will be having words with the Service Manager....

I think this is purely because it's 2 years old, which overrides the mileage etc etc.

My mates GLC has done 36k miles and has just had it's 1st B1 service? Go figure.....

To be fair, when I bought mine I checked the service intervals and typical costs as part of the buying process. It did nearly put me off, but at least it wasn't a shock.

Check other dealer pricing on MyService if you haven't already.

Interval now is 1 year or 15,500 miles, whichever is first. If the GLC is hitting services based on mileage then it should have had its second service, which is a B, at 31,000 miles.

[Davie]

iphonedyou said:

Why / how do you know every member of a dealer team?

Nothing worse than the weirdo customer who thinks he's best mate with everybody in the building...

"Ah yes Derek, as I was saying to Alison last Tuesday when she was speaking to Brian about my car... that was when your new guy Steve was working on it and then Kathy in Sales said to me and wait, it's such a funny story... so anyways Brian, you know Brian.. the dealer principal... well seemingly Brian had said to Sue, that's his wife, that Clark in parts was a bit a of a handful at the Christmas party.... HA HA HA HA HA... anyways can I have my usual two and mile whilst I take a huge dump in your toilets"

The type who change brands but still "pop in" on a Saturday and sit at your desk and chat to the customers he's busy inconveniencing...

GTF!

[jamoor]

What's the deal with piss taking such as four plus discount, or half price discount on older cars? Can't you people see that this feeds resentment and you will be dropped the second something better comes along, a bit like banks will be very shortly and Uber Vs black cabs.

[itcaptainslow]

Willy Nilly said:

Intead of making your show rooms look like a fancy bristro, why not scale that back a bit to reduce you overheads so you can bring the hourly rate down and stop all of the upselling that drives people away?

I'd much rather my car was looked after by factory trained people, but as a general rule you just take the piss. A a result, you just end up doing service work on almost new, well very young anyway, cars so never see older cars that require repirs and fault finding. So not only are you too expensive, you haven't the experience of the indepenant garages.

This post is more of a ranty statement than a decent question, but I'll attempt to answer as theres a question hidden in the angry man somewhere.

Manufacturer standards dictate what the showroom looks like. I had little control over what is spent and what goes where.

All of our techs were factory trained-I've just worked out that the four guys at the dealership I was SM had a total of sixty odd years with the marque.

Just end up doing service work? Do me a favour-you clearly have no clue about the work mix a dealership actually sees. Some days techs will see nothing BUT diagnostic jobs.

[itcaptainslow]

Sheepshanks said:

More generally on the point above, what do franchise dealer service managers think about servicing older cars?

I got chatting to one SM (Mitsubishi) he said virtually no one takes their car once warranty is up. Yet manufacturers generally all offer service deals on older cars - do SM's hate this?

We saw a fair amount of older cars-it was quite nice to see some interesting stuff like Xantia V6's and ZX's! By and large the techs enjoyed it too, especially the more experienced guys who remembered the cars when they were new. Typically these owners are loyal too and not shy on spending money if the car needed it.

We didn't offer any specific deal on the labour rates for older cars but tried to ensure any pricing was sensitive-used our loaf, basically.

I like to think we saw a good percentage of older cars and had a high amount of returning customers because we offered a decent service.

[itcaptainslow]

jamoor said:

What's the deal with piss taking such as four plus discount, or half price discount on older cars? Can't you people see that this feeds resentment and you will be dropped the second something better comes along, a bit like banks will be very shortly and Uber Vs black cabs.

Can't answer that as our dealership didn't do it-but I guess it's an attempt to retain customers and compete with independents? To be fair-it's not a bad idea-as already stated previously in the thread the reason for high labour rates (although I feel anything above £100 P/hour is a bit toppy!) is dealerships have higher overheads than an indy.

One persons "piss taking" is another's "good idea". I bet your business does things I wouldn't like!

[itcaptainslow]

super7 said:

What really p***ses me off is that I only bought the car 11mths ago with 8k on it. So having done 4k miles i'm now expected to pay £600.... I will be having words with the Service Manager....

I think this is purely because it's 2 years old, which overrides the mileage etc etc.

My mates GLC has done 36k miles and has just had it's 1st B1 service? Go figure.....

You've bought a used car-therefore it's reasonable to expect it might need servicing sooner than a new one...?

If the price is an issue-phone around other Merc dealers and get some prices from them-you then have a bit more leverage to negotiate rather than just going in and stomping your feet demanding discount. Some dealers will actually match the indy price to retain your business, I always considered it.

I was always far more amenable to someone who negotiated on price in an "educated" way rather than just simply whinging "it's too much".

[Willy Nilly]

itcaptainslow said:

Willy Nilly said:

Intead of making your show rooms look like a fancy bristro, why not scale that back a bit to reduce you overheads so you can bring the hourly rate down and stop all of the upselling that drives people away?

I'd much rather my car was looked after by factory trained people, but as a general rule you just take the piss. A a result, you just end up doing service work on almost new, well very young anyway, cars so never see older cars that require repirs and fault finding. So not only are you too expensive, you haven't the experience of the indepenant garages.

This post is more of a ranty statement than a decent question, but I'll attempt to answer as theres a question hidden in the angry man somewhere.

Manufacturer standards dictate what the showroom looks like. I had little control over what is spent and what goes where.

All of our techs were factory trained-I've just worked out that the four guys at the dealership I was SM had a total of sixty odd years with the marque.

Just end up doing service work? Do me a favour-you clearly have no clue about the work mix a dealership actually sees. Some days techs will see nothing BUT diagnostic jobs.

I appreciate that the manufacturer tells the dealer what the site needs to look like, but do you ever say to them that this is adding to your overhead costs which dictates you labour rate which inturn drives away people once the car's warranty has expired?

Time and again main dealers are referred to as "stealers" and this isn't for their generosity and reasonable rates. Would you recommend I take my 6 year old car (which will be taken care of and run into the ground) back back to the main dealer, or continune with the indy guy I use?

I would be very interested to see the breakdown of work carried out, but suspect the bulk of it is servicing cars still under warranty with the odd bit of warranty repairs and hardly any work on private, none leased cars over 5 years old. I will of course stand corrected.

My bike (same brand as the car) still goes to the main dealer because the rates are quite reasonable and not expensive enough to make me look elsewhere.

[itcaptainslow]

Willy Nilly said:

itcaptainslow said:

Willy Nilly said:

Intead of making your show rooms look like a fancy bristro, why not scale that back a bit to reduce you overheads so you can bring the hourly rate down and stop all of the upselling that drives people away?

I'd much rather my car was looked after by factory trained people, but as a general rule you just take the piss. A a result, you just end up doing service work on almost new, well very young anyway, cars so never see older cars that require repirs and fault finding. So not only are you too expensive, you haven't the experience of the indepenant garages.

This post is more of a ranty statement than a decent question, but I'll attempt to answer as theres a question hidden in the angry man somewhere.

Manufacturer standards dictate what the showroom looks like. I had little control over what is spent and what goes where.

All of our techs were factory trained-I've just worked out that the four guys at the dealership I was SM had a total of sixty odd years with the marque.

Just end up doing service work? Do me a favour-you clearly have no clue about the work mix a dealership actually sees. Some days techs will see nothing BUT diagnostic jobs.

I appreciate that the manufacturer tells the dealer what the site needs to look like, but do you ever say to them that this is adding to your overhead costs which dictates you labour rate which inturn drives away people once the car's warranty has expired?

Time and again main dealers are referred to as "stealers" and this isn't for their generosity and reasonable rates. Would you recommend I take my 6 year old car (which will be taken care of and run into the ground) back back to the main dealer, or continune with the indy guy I use?

I would be very interested to see the breakdown of work carried out, but suspect the bulk of it is servicing cars still under warranty with the odd bit of warranty repairs and hardly any work on private, none leased cars over 5 years old. I will of course stand corrected.

My bike (same brand as the car) still goes to the main dealer because the rates are quite reasonable and not expensive enough to make me look elsewhere.

You suspect wrong-only around 50% of our work was service work. Shame as it's the most profitable but it's part of being a main dealer.

My take on it is you should deliver a better service for the higher labour rate-expert techs, knowledgable front desk staff, new loan cars, that sort of thing. You're then delivering value for money.

I think more people are unhappy when they get crap service from a dealer-I'd be annoyed too (in fact I have been when taking my Elise to a well known Lotus dealership) as that's not then good value.

However you can't expect all the trappings a good main dealer will offer AND a labour rate of £40 p/hour. Something has to give.

And if you don't adhere to the manufacturer's standards, you get the franchise removed. Simple as that!

[SteveJL]

To add to the dealer standards questions I need to share something I experienced a few years ago.
I had been working for a Subaru dealer for about 6 years and was told of a new dealer opening by the Field guy from the importer.
Applied and went for the interview, turns out that they used to be a Honda dealer, now these guys had been one of the original dealers seeking motorbikes when Honda first came to the UK, so sometime in the fifties? Later went over to the car side of the business.

When I went for the interview we were just coming out of a recession and they had previously complied with all the dealers standards that were required to sell the brand. Due to the recession and subsequent down turn in sales and servicing they said we really can't do the required work as profits aren't great, recession etc etc.

They pulled the plug on them! Took away the franchise hence them wanting Subaru people for the workshop. I didn't take the job as the travel time was too long unfortunately.

[Sheepshanks]

SteveJL said:

Applied and went for the interview, turns out that they used to be a Honda dealer, now these guys had been one of the original dealers seeking motorbikes when Honda first came to the UK, so sometime in the fifties? Later went over to the car side of the business.

When I went for the interview we were just coming out of a recession and they had previously complied with all the dealers standards that were required to sell the brand. Due to the recession and subsequent down turn in sales and servicing they said we really can't do the required work as profits aren't great, recession etc etc.

They pulled the plug on them! Took away the franchise hence them wanting Subaru people for the workshop. I didn't take the job as the travel time was too long unfortunately.

A lot of really well regarded long standing Honda dealers have either been canned or went bust. Honda promised the dealers increasing sales but instead they halved and have stayed there. Honda was voted the worst franchise to have by dealers a couple of years ago.

[Street2408]

[quote=super7]How does a Mercedes dealer who never gives an inch, justify charging close to £600 to service E-class Convertible which is 2yrs old and with 12000 miles on it.... Needs a B1 service according to the dash on the car? An oil change, Brake fluid change (after 2 years ????) and a pollen filter change.... on a convertible????

Oh.... also needs the windscreen fluid checked, the first aid kit checked along with a whole host of other sh*t which is totally pointless!! [/quote
—-----------
Presume you know the manufacturer sets the service interval and what is required to be checked and changed at each service?
No point in taking it out on the dealership or the staff is there?

What difference does it make that the cars a convertible?

Probably should have done some research before you bought the car...