Ask a Service Manager anything...anything at all.

[Prinny]

Ninja59 said:

ollie plymsoles said:

Can I ask why they always unplug the dash cam when the car is in the dealership?

My BMW dealer never do! In fact the SM actively encourages owners to keep them running.

Having spoken with him at length his viewpoint is what do we have to hide. We do a good job the customer is happy and everything is clear. Any issues then it is clear cut what we did and did not do properly.

Nor mine. I watched it the first time, out of interest... treated to the mechanic's colourful views on people & their driving habits while out on the (very) sedate test-drive (they'd just changed the Dual-clutch sump, so needed to verify gear selection). That was funny.
Skipped quickly through the 2nd and 3rd visits - the software on the camera logs location & speed, nothing interesting to see. Now, I don't even bother.

[lucido grigio]

buggalugs said:

Which brand has the nicest customers?

I too stood the wrong side of the counter in my 16 years at a SAAB dealer.

I expect some may pipe up with SAAB for this question.

No !

I left the trade in 1995 BTW.

[R8Steve]

Terminator X said:

When I pay for a service do you actually do some work / replace some items or simply jack the car up look at it for 90 mins then charge for doing sweet FA?

TX.

Depends how busy they are, usually the latter though.

[lucido grigio]

Cpt Stirling said:

Have the worn set of pads that miraculously appear from under the counter actually come off the customer's car?

After a few queries over possible changing of unnecessary parts ,ALL parts removed from customers car were put into a bag

and placed in the boot of car.

Some returned to the desk asking us to dispose of said bags .

Remember ,all parts removed from a customers car are still the customers property ,warranty items excluded.

We didn't put extremely dirty/greasy bits in bag ,oil filters ,CVJ gaiters covered in muck.

[Monkeylegend]

Op, have I got the wrong end of the dipstick here or is the idea of this thread for you to answer our questions based on your experiences?

[valiant]

Why do you always end up firing the gorgeous service receptionists?

We do know they're crap but waiting in the reception for our cars while sneakingly glimpsing at their low cut tops and skin tight skirts make paying £100 per hour service costs justifiable.

Twice at Ford this happened!

[Byker28i]

talksthetorque said:

ollie plymsoles said:

Can I ask why they always unplug the dash cam when the car is in the dealership?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3038188/Shocking-dashcam-footage-shows-Halfords-mechanic-taking-customer-s-souped-Ford-Focus-joyride-DOUBLE-speed-limit-took-MOT.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4670868/Shocking-moment-garage-staff-Mazda-RX-8-joyride.html
My local mazda dealer - £110 per hour
We've never had the car back from them in as good a state as it went into them. Stopped using them now. Service manager is an arrogant tt!

[Byker28i]

valiant said:

Why do you always end up firing the gorgeous service receptionists?

We do know they're crap but waiting in the reception for our cars while sneakingly glimpsing at their low cut tops and skin tight skirts make paying £100 per hour service costs justifiable.

Twice at Ford this happened!

They leave because of the grumpy service manager (Swindon Mazda again)

[PurpleTurtle]

sparks_E39 said:

Don't mean to hijack the thread OP but thought a serving service advisors input may benefit the thread. I don't know about other dealers, but at our one we are transparent and honest. If a tyres at 4mm I will advise the customer it's best days are behind it but it's still got a bit of life yet. At 3mm I recommend replacing very soon and at anything below 3mm I recommend replacing immediately. Same with brakes- we advise of worn brakes if they are around 60% gone, and start to advise replacement at around 80% (more of a convenience to the customer than anything, as it could pass an MOT at 90%+ worn) There are some circumstances that I'd advise changing items earlier, customers who drive 1000 miles plus a week would probably benefit getting their 3-4mm tyres changed now rather than risk letting them wear to illegal tread depths in a few weeks time. I think part of becoming a successful service advisor is weighing up the customers needs and deciding appropriately, and communicating with them. Failure to communicate is where most problems occur, easily avoidable.

Yes I do earn a commission from selling these items, it can add up quite nicely some months. I am however quite happy that anything I've sold to a customer has been in good faith and required by them, rather than making my commission sheet look good, and I never hard sell. I can say the same of my colleagues, and we are 100% supported by the management. Not all dealers are the same.

I had this experience yesterday at my local Honda dealer. The wife's 13yo, 107,000 mile FR-V was in for an airbag recall under warranty and a replacement Cat heat shield, the latter at my expense. The latter is also *probably* pointless in this country, but my wife and 2yo kid use the car a lot, I don't want it bursting into flames if she parks on some dry grassland in it. The car is otherwise solid but beginning to show its age, we are happy to run it into the ground until a bill comes along that renders it uneconomical.

Prior to collection the Honda service manager emailed me an under-car video (I was impressed by this, but appreciate they do it for the upsell) showing a few issues which, although minor, will be big £££ in terms of labour. We both agreed it is probably uneconomical to do them, apart from the two new front tyres which I will get done whilst we ponder when to shift it. I was impressed at this honesty as we both sucked our teeth at the likely labour bill and shook our heads, given the value of the car.

So, rather than leaving the dealership after I paid up, I spent 20 minutes looking round their used stock - nothing fitted my immediate bill, but it was all keenly priced. It made me want to go back to the dealer when we decide we are going to change, probably in 6-9 months time.

So, the lesson being that some honesty from their Service Manager might well see one of their Sales guys banking a used sale from me.
Will the Service Manager ever get any recognition for this? Probably not, unless I point it out to the Sales Manager, which I will if we buy there.

Edited by PurpleTurtle on Thursday 5th October 13:58

[Yipper]

Know an old school friend who ran their own indy garage with 100% honesty -- and nearly went bust.

It was impossible to compete with the vast majority of garages who bend the rules to make a quick buck in a mature, overcrowded market.

He, like most others, now routinely charges for work not done, subtly breaks stuff to generate extra repairs, and uses cheaper fluids or parts than billed.

For example, using Triple QX for a quick oil change, instead of Mobil 1, gets an extra £20-30 pure profit.

Not right, of course, but it's how the industry works.

[designforlife]

For all of these reasons, i will never let a main dealer near any one of my cars.

Some indys can be as bad, but once you find a decent one or two, you're pretty set.

[750turbo]

Yipper said:

Know an old school friend who ran their own indy garage with 100% honesty -- and nearly went bust.

It was impossible to compete with the vast majority of garages who bend the rules to make a quick buck in a mature, overcrowded market.

He, like most others, now routinely charges for work not done, subtly breaks stuff to generate extra repairs, and uses cheaper fluids or parts than billed.

For example, using Triple QX for a quick oil change, instead of Mobil 1, gets an extra £20-30 pure profit.

Not right, of course, but it's how the industry works.

No it's not - It is just how the rogue ones work - Do not tar them all with the same brush.

[sparks_E39]

R8Steve said:

Terminator X said:

When I pay for a service do you actually do some work / replace some items or simply jack the car up look at it for 90 mins then charge for doing sweet FA?

TX.

Depends how busy they are, usually the latter though.

Can honestly say this does not happen where I work, and can't imagine it happens as frequently as suggested on PH.

[OddCat]

Yipper said:

He, like most others, now routinely charges for work not done, subtly breaks stuff to generate extra repairs, and uses cheaper fluids or parts than billed.

For example, using Triple QX for a quick oil change, instead of Mobil 1, gets an extra £20-30 pure profit.

Not right, of course, but it's how the industry works.

I'm not sure whether that is fraud or theft or deception. Or a mixture.

Whatever, it clearly ISN'T ACCEPTABLE !

[Djtemeka]

ollie plymsoles said:

Can I ask why they always unplug the dash cam when the car is in the dealership?

Yea! Vauxhall do it to my van :/

[itcaptainslow]

talksthetorque said:

What was your internal service rate to the sales department as a percentage of the "full" service rate?

Retail rate when I was there was £89 + VAT p/hour. Internal rate was £65 p/hour.

threadlock said:

You may not know this if you were front desk rather than workshop, but how many times did work just not get done because of a pressure to get jobs through the workshop? Car comes in for a service but other jobs take longer before it so there isn't time to do the oil change. Never mind - just wipe down the filter so it looks new and the customer is none the wiser.

It's my biggest fear when my cars get serviced. Main dealers are under so much pressure to earn money and survive against the manufacturers' unreasonable demands for glossy showrooms that they must have to cut corners from time to time, screwing either the customer or the warranty companies to max their profits.

/cynicalmode

Never, I can say that with complete conviction. I'd rather call the customer and say we weren't able to get the car finished than defraud them.

Prohibiting said:

What’s the naughtiest thing you’ve witnessed a mechanic do to a customers car?

Difficult one. Seen a few questionable working practises but none at the dealership I managed. We had a smashing workshop there. Rather boringly I've never seen anything that would make your hair curl-probably the worst is seeing a tech at a previous dealership take a customer's car out for a spin, literally, as he did an impressive 500 degree pirouette on a roundabout while being a little too enthusiastic with me in the passenger seat. I was a wide eyed, new to the job service advisor at the time so didn't have the confidence to say anything.

buggalugs said:

Which brand has the nicest customers?

Easy, for the brands I worked for-Citroen. It's more to do with where the dealer is located than the brand IMO.

xjay1337 said:

Tell me why the fk anytime my car goes to a main dealer (it hasnt for about 3 years and the last thing it went in for was a warranty repair) , that the dealer goes on about "oooooo you havent had your cam belt changed" or "your suspension is about to fall off!" when it isn't, it's just the service book is not kept in the car!

I swear they say it to every one and if only 1 in 50 people say yes they'll make a fortune. Very bad in my opinion.

The tone of your post clearly indicates you've got a dealership chip on your shoulder, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and answer anyway. Just think about what you've written-if the dealership doesn't know, they advise it. Mainly because some customers (maybe you!?) would then look to blame the dealership if it failed and they hadn't been told.

We advised if the cambelt was due on age/mileage AND if there was no evidence it had been replaced. In the absence of a service book, record on our system (only if it was done by a dealer in our group), how exactly were we supposed to know if it had or hadn't been done? The customer could have just bought the car, be unaware and we could have just saved them from writing their engine off...

[itcaptainslow]

mp3manager said:

Is the screenwash top-up con really necessary?

Elaborate and I'll answer...

Justin S said:

Do you get commission on selling things which cars dont need ? Just after visiting Audi Basingstoke this week for collecting a colleagues car from MOT, their idea of warings and costing the work was 4.5mm tyres and 5mm left on the brakes. For a grand total of £800, which the work wasnt needed , although they made it seem it was .

Service advisors are commissioned on upsell of work. Our guys would NEVER sell work that wasn't necessary-they'd advise anything safety related to be done ASAP ("Red" work on the health check) and highlight anything to the customer that may need doing in the future including costings, but this was only bringing it their attention, never a push for it to be done.

It all depends on the presentation by the advisor-a good one would present it taking into account the customer's mileage, too.

"Your front pads have approximately 40% wear remaining-they're fine for now but probably won't make it to the next service in 20k miles. Pop it back in 5k and we'll give them a free recheck for you"

An honest assessment-far better than trying to sell those pads now! However those 40% left pads will make it onto the health check report, which customers will take, if not presented correctly, the dealership trying to sell that work right now, whereas it's trying to help the customer and cover the dealership's arse. Long service intervals don't help-you're trying to predict the future.

[itcaptainslow]

Gad-Westy said:

This isn't meant to be an attack but will admit it's born of bewilderment!

Now that you're out of the industry, how do you view the rates charged by main dealers? I haven't paid these rates myself but I'm astonished to hear of people routinely paying in excess of £100 per hour for main dealer labour rates. Compared to other industries, it seems a huge number.

How long does a diagnostics check take?

What is your view on labeling of Master Techs and other such titles? From the outside it's all a bit 'Apple Genius Bar'.

I can see both sides of the coin. There are a lot of hidden overheads in a dealership-there's not as much profit in that £100 p/hour as you think, but it is getting a bit daft going into three figures, I agree.

To give an example-our retail rate was £89 p/hour + VAT, internal £65 p/hour, and warranty rate charged to the manufacturer was also £65 p/hour. There's still obviously profit in that, but not loads. I used to view any job below £40 p/hour or so as not worthwhile.

Diagnostic check-just a diagnostic scan all told will take about 20-30 minutes. The real skill comes in the interpretation of the results (hence your Master Tech-who may be qualified to degree level! They're clever blokes and our's certainly was, so deserved recognition of his skills)-also the scan doesn't necessarily tell you what's wrong. Part of the interpretation is knowing when further checks are required-of the components, wiring and ECU's in a circuit. Modern CANBUS electronics also mean the car is one big network-so a fault in one component could trigger a fault code in what may seem an unrelated ECU. It's the MT's job to get to the bottom of all this.

[Gad-Westy]

itcaptainslow said:

Gad-Westy said:

This isn't meant to be an attack but will admit it's born of bewilderment!

Now that you're out of the industry, how do you view the rates charged by main dealers? I haven't paid these rates myself but I'm astonished to hear of people routinely paying in excess of £100 per hour for main dealer labour rates. Compared to other industries, it seems a huge number.

How long does a diagnostics check take?

What is your view on labeling of Master Techs and other such titles? From the outside it's all a bit 'Apple Genius Bar'.

I can see both sides of the coin. There are a lot of hidden overheads in a dealership-there's not as much profit in that £100 p/hour as you think, but it is getting a bit daft going into three figures, I agree.

To give an example-our retail rate was £89 p/hour + VAT, internal £65 p/hour, and warranty rate charged to the manufacturer was also £65 p/hour. There's still obviously profit in that, but not loads. I used to view any job below £40 p/hour or so as not worthwhile.

Diagnostic check-just a diagnostic scan all told will take about 20-30 minutes. The real skill comes in the interpretation of the results (hence your Master Tech-who may be qualified to degree level! They're clever blokes and our's certainly was, so deserved recognition of his skills)-also the scan doesn't necessarily tell you what's wrong. Part of the interpretation is knowing when further checks are required-of the components, wiring and ECU's in a circuit. Modern CANBUS electronics also mean the car is one big network-so a fault in one component could trigger a fault code in what may seem an unrelated ECU. It's the MT's job to get to the bottom of all this.

Thanks. Every day is a school day.

[berlintaxi]

ollie plymsoles said:

Can I ask why they always unplug the dash cam when the car is in the dealership?

Why do they always re-tune the radio to some ste station?