RE: Rolls-Royce Phantom SWB: Driven
Discussion
big_rob_sydney said:
PugwasHDJ80 said:
big_rob_sydney said:
PugwasHDJ80 said:
Where you are going wrong is supposing that reliability is a problem- most of these cars are extremely pampered. live in heated garages and do relatively few miles per year (i have a client who does 3k per year in his). They then get serviced every year. Honestly reliability is not a concern.
Luxury on the other hand is- what they want is a silent car that can waft around at 80-90 with total poise ensuring that they are safe, secure and luxurious. There is an element of a statement about them, but its not a statement of "loook at me", but often a reward for success.
I suppose if you took the absolute worst car in the world in terms of reliability, and drove it so little (perhaps rolling down hills where possible?), you might arguably get away with saying "It's reliable; what are you worried about".Luxury on the other hand is- what they want is a silent car that can waft around at 80-90 with total poise ensuring that they are safe, secure and luxurious. There is an element of a statement about them, but its not a statement of "loook at me", but often a reward for success.
3k a year is nothing. You can't claim "it's reliable" by doing such little mileage, and I think trying to suggest so is disingenuous.
having said all that, having seen the quality standards of RR i suspect they are no more unreliable than any other modern car (which is to say very reliable) and the "vaunted" reliability of germanic cars is a bit of a misnomer. modern Fords and Honda's are statiscitcally more reliable than their german counter parts
But when these cars are assembled by hand, this is where the issues surface. You're also saying they're not unreliable, but in the same breath you're ignoring the fact you mentioned yourself, that these cars basically go nowhere, and are, therefore, "reliable."
And if I may ask a serous question; you say you've "seen" the quality standards. What, exactly, have you seen?
Don't know everything about allthe supplies to rolls royce, but one of my clients supplies wiring looms to them, and also to Audi and BMW (albeit they are a tier two not a tier one to those guys). The looms are made in exactly the same way.
Rolls royce builds to BMW standards but then adds a layer of hand finish on top- its the difference betwen a very nice off the peg armani suit and a fully floating, super 150s bespoke suit.
I don't really know where your idea that rolls royce's are unreliable is coming from- i suspect they are at least as reliable as a 7 series.
Were this a write up on an S Class, 7 Series, A8, or what ever fancy SUV, the interior paragraph would be all about all of the electronic tat that they had managed to stuff into the car. This seems to be refeshingly free from all of this. It even has a proper gear lever with just forward and backward.
big_rob_sydney said:
I suppose if you took the absolute worst car in the world in terms of reliability, and drove it so little (perhaps rolling down hills where possible?), you might arguably get away with saying "It's reliable; what are you worried about".
3k a year is nothing. You can't claim "it's reliable" by doing such little mileage, and I think trying to suggest so is disingenuous.
On what basis are you saying it's unreliable?3k a year is nothing. You can't claim "it's reliable" by doing such little mileage, and I think trying to suggest so is disingenuous.
Maybe the one you had broke down all the time, I don't know, but arguing a car is unreliable or reliable with nothing to back it up makes you look a bit daft. Without any stats to argue against the car, you'd have to assume it was reliable.
PugwasHDJ80 said:
None of my clients have ever mentioned that their rollers have ever let them down. They all expect them to work perfectly and they just do!
Don't know everything about allthe supplies to rolls royce, but one of my clients supplies wiring looms to them, and also to Audi and BMW (albeit they are a tier two not a tier one to those guys). The looms are made in exactly the same way.
Rolls royce builds to BMW standards but then adds a layer of hand finish on top- its the difference betwen a very nice off the peg armani suit and a fully floating, super 150s bespoke suit.
I don't really know where your idea that rolls royce's are unreliable is coming from- i suspect they are at least as reliable as a 7 series.
A car is made from around 30,000 parts. You're extrapolating on the basis of one...Don't know everything about allthe supplies to rolls royce, but one of my clients supplies wiring looms to them, and also to Audi and BMW (albeit they are a tier two not a tier one to those guys). The looms are made in exactly the same way.
Rolls royce builds to BMW standards but then adds a layer of hand finish on top- its the difference betwen a very nice off the peg armani suit and a fully floating, super 150s bespoke suit.
I don't really know where your idea that rolls royce's are unreliable is coming from- i suspect they are at least as reliable as a 7 series.
Where my idea of reliability is coming from is JD Powers. If this car is not sold in sufficient numbers as to make an entry into the survey in its own right, then the next option available is to look at cars from which many parts are donated.
Add to that, the "hand made", and you can draw your own conclusions.
northwest monkey said:
On what basis are you saying it's unreliable?
Maybe the one you had broke down all the time, I don't know, but arguing a car is unreliable or reliable with nothing to back it up makes you look a bit daft. Without any stats to argue against the car, you'd have to assume it was reliable.
Looking a bit daft? Hmm, if you had bothered to read, you would have seen a previous post where I stated I had never been in one before. Lets let your attention to detail slide for a moment.Maybe the one you had broke down all the time, I don't know, but arguing a car is unreliable or reliable with nothing to back it up makes you look a bit daft. Without any stats to argue against the car, you'd have to assume it was reliable.
You don't need to own one to know where a car sits in terms of reliability. I've never owned a Lada Niva before, yet I know its a POS.
In the same vein, see what is written above regarding JD Powers, and then make up your own mind. Oh, and try reading. Even the small words.
big_rob_sydney said:
You don't need to own one to know where a car sits in terms of reliability. I've never owned a Lada Niva before, yet I know its a POS.
In the same vein, see what is written above regarding JD Powers, and then make up your own mind.
I'd suggest that you don't buy one then. In the same vein, see what is written above regarding JD Powers, and then make up your own mind.
big_rob_sydney said:
PugwasHDJ80 said:
None of my clients have ever mentioned that their rollers have ever let them down. They all expect them to work perfectly and they just do!
Don't know everything about allthe supplies to rolls royce, but one of my clients supplies wiring looms to them, and also to Audi and BMW (albeit they are a tier two not a tier one to those guys). The looms are made in exactly the same way.
Rolls royce builds to BMW standards but then adds a layer of hand finish on top- its the difference betwen a very nice off the peg armani suit and a fully floating, super 150s bespoke suit.
I don't really know where your idea that rolls royce's are unreliable is coming from- i suspect they are at least as reliable as a 7 series.
A car is made from around 30,000 parts. You're extrapolating on the basis of one...Don't know everything about allthe supplies to rolls royce, but one of my clients supplies wiring looms to them, and also to Audi and BMW (albeit they are a tier two not a tier one to those guys). The looms are made in exactly the same way.
Rolls royce builds to BMW standards but then adds a layer of hand finish on top- its the difference betwen a very nice off the peg armani suit and a fully floating, super 150s bespoke suit.
I don't really know where your idea that rolls royce's are unreliable is coming from- i suspect they are at least as reliable as a 7 series.
Where my idea of reliability is coming from is JD Powers. If this car is not sold in sufficient numbers as to make an entry into the survey in its own right, then the next option available is to look at cars from which many parts are donated.
Add to that, the "hand made", and you can draw your own conclusions.
Unfortunately i don't think you know enough about how modern cars are assembled to make a cohesive argument- my point about the wiring loom (which is critical part in terms of reliability) is that cars are now built to similar standards.
You will find that that the elecctronics will be bosch (with ECU's sharing common parts with other v12s), the engine is manufactured by BMW to RR specs, the Gearbox is ZF, the vast majority of the other parts will be off the shelf or built to a higher standard than the other manufacturers.
most tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers will need to deliver an OEE of less than 5ppm- all RR quppliers need to meet these standards
PugwasHDJ80 said:
So your idea on realiability is NOT coming from JD Power at all,
Unfortunately i don't think you know enough about how modern cars are assembled to make a cohesive argument- my point about the wiring loom (which is critical part in terms of reliability) is that cars are now built to similar standards.
You will find that that the elecctronics will be bosch (with ECU's sharing common parts with other v12s), the engine is manufactured by BMW to RR specs, the Gearbox is ZF, the vast majority of the other parts will be off the shelf or built to a higher standard than the other manufacturers.
most tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers will need to deliver an OEE of less than 5ppm- all RR quppliers need to meet these standards
And this is where your entire argument falls to pieces.Unfortunately i don't think you know enough about how modern cars are assembled to make a cohesive argument- my point about the wiring loom (which is critical part in terms of reliability) is that cars are now built to similar standards.
You will find that that the elecctronics will be bosch (with ECU's sharing common parts with other v12s), the engine is manufactured by BMW to RR specs, the Gearbox is ZF, the vast majority of the other parts will be off the shelf or built to a higher standard than the other manufacturers.
most tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers will need to deliver an OEE of less than 5ppm- all RR quppliers need to meet these standards
If cars are as homogeneous as you claim (built to similar standards), then their reliability would be similarly homogeneous.
It is patently clear that this is total crap.
big_rob_sydney said:
PugwasHDJ80 said:
So your idea on realiability is NOT coming from JD Power at all,
Unfortunately i don't think you know enough about how modern cars are assembled to make a cohesive argument- my point about the wiring loom (which is critical part in terms of reliability) is that cars are now built to similar standards.
You will find that that the elecctronics will be bosch (with ECU's sharing common parts with other v12s), the engine is manufactured by BMW to RR specs, the Gearbox is ZF, the vast majority of the other parts will be off the shelf or built to a higher standard than the other manufacturers.
most tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers will need to deliver an OEE of less than 5ppm- all RR quppliers need to meet these standards
And this is where your entire argument falls to pieces.Unfortunately i don't think you know enough about how modern cars are assembled to make a cohesive argument- my point about the wiring loom (which is critical part in terms of reliability) is that cars are now built to similar standards.
You will find that that the elecctronics will be bosch (with ECU's sharing common parts with other v12s), the engine is manufactured by BMW to RR specs, the Gearbox is ZF, the vast majority of the other parts will be off the shelf or built to a higher standard than the other manufacturers.
most tier 1 and tier 2 suppliers will need to deliver an OEE of less than 5ppm- all RR quppliers need to meet these standards
If cars are as homogeneous as you claim (built to similar standards), then their reliability would be similarly homogeneous.
It is patently clear that this is total crap.
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