RE: Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 and ZL1 1LE: Driven

[mybrainhurts]

"While Ford went to the trouble and expense of engineering a Euro-spec Mustang, even converting it to wrong-side drive"


I think you'll find that's CORRECT hand drive....

Carry on....

[SidewaysSi]

I really don't give a st about interiors. Why is it even an issue on cars like this?

[ducnick]

Pointless car, just like the m4 gts and the gt350r.
If you want a track car you shouldn’t start with a 4 seat large coupe. Putting that glorious crate LS in an Ultima would be a far better bet.

The next models down from the track racers with more road focus make far more sensible propositions. E.g gt350, m4, zl1

[ZX10R NIN]

To say these cars aren't well engineered is doing them a disservice.

Camaro SS vs M4 (not a CP M4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D87tO7VUs2I

GT350R vs ZL1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMNifBdm_o4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtdtGgf1BF0

ZL1 1LE Road test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8YaDLR6Ayc

Corvette Z06 vs ACR

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qWYJQClIyY

[mylesmcd]

markclow said:

mylesmcd said:

Are you suggesting that the Camaro interior is on par with the BMW in terms of materials, design and quality? The i Drive system alone would decide the arguement for most.
The GT350 is not in this discussion - it has better overall build and than the Chevy. (Seen as most as pandering to the Euro Sports market - and losing some US Muscle Car fans however) - but, again, isnt close in terms of over all quality. The GM Alpha platform is heavier and than the 3 Series and was designed to take every drive - unlike the 3 Series, which was Rear (and additionally xDrive) not FF, FR, RWD + AWD.

My main point is that the common a garden Camaro is a POS - terrible visibility, terrible dynamics, interior is shocking etc - this ZL1 would be a win on power alone. But, if in the market a Viper ACR would be my weapon of choice!

You know that Motor Trend tested a common or garden Camaro SS vs an M4? And they rated the Camaro better?

Or you know better than they do?

What is your actual real-life experience of that car? Or are you just another PH windbag who spouts crap? Or just a troll?

Edited by markclow on Saturday 7th October 14:25

There is no need to get potty mouth Mark - it is only discussing preferences on cars.

But, since you asked, I currently work for BMW Special Sales Division (US Market) and previously worked as a US Spec Car Trader for Europe's largest US Spec Car Dealer (both new and used)

Any other questions?

[willisit]

I have a Mustang and the Camaro is FAR nicer inside. I'd LOVE a Camaro in RHD (or LHD, I really don't care) but the Mustang's warranty and easy of service etc swung it.

There are days though....

Would rather any of these than a BMW. It's a personal thing - no one person can catagorically tell me the BMW is a better car when I want to yawn just looking at one (hence, personal).

[techguyone]

The beemer interior would look a damn sight better without the ipad propped on top of the dash, why can't that be integrated?

[DoubleD]

I dont like the glued on ipad look either. I think the M2s interior looks a little bit boring.

[Ritchie335is]

willisit said:

Would rather any of these than a BMW. It's a personal thing - no one person can catagorically tell me the BMW is a better car when I want to yawn just looking at one (hence, personal).

You know, it's funny, I was a BMW / German car man all my life, I have had loads of them and the Wife still runs a Merc C220D. I had an E39 M5 for a long time and one day I decided it had to go, it was getting rusty and tired and I was sick of paying the over inflated "M Tax" for parts so my mind was made up, but what to get?
I was having a look around for more modern equivalent, but it was almost like something had switched inside me and I just couldn't get excited about any German performance car. They just seem so soulless nowadays and don't have the character of the old M Cars etc.
Cars like this IMO are a great breath of fresh air and a great change from the norm.
I now own a 2017 Mustang GT and I bloody love it, it's not perfect and the build is not as good as the German stuff but I couldn't give a hoot! It's a laugh a minute and you just don't care when your driving it that it's got cheap leather etc.

[markclow]

mylesmcd said:

There is no need to get potty mouth Mark - it is only discussing preferences on cars.

But, since you asked, I currently work for BMW Special Sales Division (US Market) and previously worked as a US Spec Car Trader for Europe's largest US Spec Car Dealer (both new and used)

Any other questions?

Ok so in other words you love BMWs and you have no experience of the new car that you have spent half of this thread panning.

[theholygrail]

Just come back from the Honda SS. There was a blue ZL1 there and I have to say it looked stunning. Maybe a bit cartoonish but I stared at it a lot longer than I would have done a M car. A shame we can't get them here in RHD as they seem amazing VFM.

[willisit]

Ritchie335is said:

You know, it's funny, I was a BMW / German car man all my life, I have had loads of them and the Wife still runs a Merc C220D. I had an E39 M5 for a long time and one day I decided it had to go, it was getting rusty and tired and I was sick of paying the over inflated "M Tax" for parts so my mind was made up, but what to get?
I was having a look around for more modern equivalent, but it was almost like something had switched inside me and I just couldn't get excited about any German performance car. They just seem so soulless nowadays and don't have the character of the old M Cars etc.
Cars like this IMO are a great breath of fresh air and a great change from the norm.
I now own a 2017 Mustang GT and I bloody love it, it's not perfect and the build is not as good as the German stuff but I couldn't give a hoot! It's a laugh a minute and you just don't care when your driving it that it's got cheap leather etc.

I had a 320d for 50k whilst roaming the UK's motorways for work and it was a fabulous tool, but it did nothing for me. It just worked. For that, I cannot in any way fault them - and the E90 M3 will always hold a (v8) allure.. but beyond that, they're just what they are. My wife had an S5 and now S1 and so like you, we have the German camp well and truly subscribed to. I just, well, want something a bit different, not quite as well behaved, and with a soundtrack. The GT has all of those things, even if it does have Ford build standards (i.e. a whiff of crap about it)

[h0b0]

I have not been in a BMW for year so having spent my last 15 in US cars. My mother in law bought a new X something and I was expecting the interior to make me aroused because of the way they are spoken about here in myth and legend. I was very disappointed to not ejaculate.

Yes, my current Porsche feels better put together than my previous cars but it was 3 times the price.


I think we can all agree, if we lived in the US (as I do) the US market cars would be an attractive option and half of us would buy them. For similar prices, you can get a 2.0t Audi with hugely expensive service costs or a 5.0L V8 you can service at Jiffy lube for $90. If that doesn’t float your boat you can spend the same money on cars with the twin turbo V6 eco boost engine out of the new Ford GT super car and drive around in an F150 pick up truck.


The cars in the OP are not about the tactile touch of the plastics.

[mylesmcd]

markclow said:

mylesmcd said:

There is no need to get potty mouth Mark - it is only discussing preferences on cars.

But, since you asked, I currently work for BMW Special Sales Division (US Market) and previously worked as a US Spec Car Trader for Europe's largest US Spec Car Dealer (both new and used)

Any other questions?

Ok so in other words you love BMWs and you have no experience of the new car that you have spent half of this thread panning.

Questions Mark. Any other questions. Not statements.

May I ask what level of experience do you have of the ZL1?

[mylesmcd]

h0b0 said:

I have not been in a BMW for year so having spent my last 15 in US cars. My mother in law bought a new X something and I was expecting the interior to make me aroused because of the way they are spoken about here in myth and legend. I was very disappointed to not ejaculate.

Yes, my current Porsche feels better put together than my previous cars but it was 3 times the price.


I think we can all agree, if we lived in the US (as I do) the US market cars would be an attractive option and half of us would buy them. For similar prices, you can get a 2.0t Audi with hugely expensive service costs or a 5.0L V8 you can service at Jiffy lube for $90. If that doesn’t float your boat you can spend the same money on cars with the twin turbo V6 eco boost engine out of the new Ford GT super car and drive around in an F150 pick up truck.


The cars in the OP are not about the tactile touch of the plastics.

I do tend to agree. The X range, esp X3 is way behind the curve in terms of, er, everything.

As far as the Camaro goes, as a track only toy, it would be something from Hethel for me. Or something ridiculously cheap that I would not mind binning.

[HappyMidget]

So much want for one of these, maybe in a few years will get one to put along side the VXR8 and boost the fk out of it like I am doing to the 8.

[MDMetal]

BMW interiors look fussy and overly detailed, anyone who thinks they look nicer (arguing amount quality vs design is different) than the Camero is nuts. Why do people that argue about racing pedigree of a brand or engine have a love for rep mobile looking interiors vs something that looks racy and functional?

[unpc]

willisit said:

Ritchie335is said:

You know, it's funny, I was a BMW / German car man all my life, I have had loads of them and the Wife still runs a Merc C220D. I had an E39 M5 for a long time and one day I decided it had to go, it was getting rusty and tired and I was sick of paying the over inflated "M Tax" for parts so my mind was made up, but what to get?
I was having a look around for more modern equivalent, but it was almost like something had switched inside me and I just couldn't get excited about any German performance car. They just seem so soulless nowadays and don't have the character of the old M Cars etc.
Cars like this IMO are a great breath of fresh air and a great change from the norm.
I now own a 2017 Mustang GT and I bloody love it, it's not perfect and the build is not as good as the German stuff but I couldn't give a hoot! It's a laugh a minute and you just don't care when your driving it that it's got cheap leather etc.

I had a 320d for 50k whilst roaming the UK's motorways for work and it was a fabulous tool, but it did nothing for me. It just worked. For that, I cannot in any way fault them - and the E90 M3 will always hold a (v8) allure.. but beyond that, they're just what they are. My wife had an S5 and now S1 and so like you, we have the German camp well and truly subscribed to. I just, well, want something a bit different, not quite as well behaved, and with a soundtrack. The GT has all of those things, even if it does have Ford build standards (i.e. a whiff of crap about it)

Yep was BMW man myself for many years and ran my Alpina D3 alongside my Mustang for a while until I couldn't be bothered to drive the Alpina anymore. I don't see me buying another BMW again.

[vz-r_dave]

Yank car comes out that is quicker than any European equivalent at any cost..... German manufacturer fans come out talking about interior quality. Absolutely pathetic it really is... so typical of PH that we are debating interior quality on a car like this.

[markclow]

mylesmcd said:

Questions Mark. Any other questions. Not statements.

May I ask what level of experience do you have of the ZL1?

I have owned a new camaro ss for the last 14 months. It's not perfect but dynamically it drives better than any of the m cars I have had.

I recently test drove a zl1 at AutoNation Chevrolet Alpharetta, 5 miles from home.

Edited by markclow on Monday 9th October 11:39