RE: Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 and ZL1 1LE: Driven
Discussion
markclow said:
mylesmcd said:
Questions Mark. Any other questions. Not statements.
May I ask what level of experience do you have of the ZL1?
I have owned a new camaro ss for the last 14 months. It's not perfect but dynamically it drives better than any of the m cars I have had.May I ask what level of experience do you have of the ZL1?
I recently test drove a zl1 at AutoNation Chevrolet Alpharetta, 5 miles from home.
Edited by markclow on Monday 9th October 11:39
I am not buying that for a second!
Some of the comments about the positioning of the air vents were surprising.
I like them where they are. Also nobody mentions that the car in base trim has remote starting. So I have my ac set to 74 degrees and I remote start it from my office and let it cool down (from 80-90 degrees outside) before I get in it. I prefer that over 'optimum air vent positioning'.
I like them where they are. Also nobody mentions that the car in base trim has remote starting. So I have my ac set to 74 degrees and I remote start it from my office and let it cool down (from 80-90 degrees outside) before I get in it. I prefer that over 'optimum air vent positioning'.
mylesmcd said:
' It's not perfect but dynamically it drives better than any of the m cars I have had' - there Sir, goes any creditably.
I am not buying that for a second!
Of course you aren't.I am not buying that for a second!
Real-life experience means nothing to you, as demonstrated on this thread.
I don't want your credibility. I want to come onto a forum and read real-info about cars from people in the know. Unfortunately that is spoiled because I have to wade through pages of crap written by people like you (internet experts). You should change your username to 'Yipper2'.
Edited by markclow on Monday 9th October 12:10
markclow said:
mylesmcd said:
' It's not perfect but dynamically it drives better than any of the m cars I have had' - there Sir, goes any creditably.
I am not buying that for a second!
Of course you aren't.I am not buying that for a second!
Real-life experience means nothing to you, as demonstrated on this thread.
I don't want your credibility. I want to come onto a forum and read real-info about cars from people in the know. Unfortunately that is spoiled because I have to wade through pages of crap written by people like you (internet experts). You should change your username to 'Yipper2'.
Edited by markclow on Monday 9th October 12:10
However, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
mylesmcd said:
Mark - reference your first comment before you throw any accusations like that around. You waded in - not me. I have driven and owned more of both types of cars that you could ever imagine.
However, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Past a point, does and should interior quality matter to enthusiasts? A 2004 Subaru Impreza STI has some cheap horrid feeling & looking interior bits. My 2016 NotImpreza STI certainly is nothing to write home about in terms of interior, but do I find myself actually noticing a HUGE difference between it, and say, my father's 2016 Mercedes S500? The Mercedes undoubtedly has a nicer interior (as it should at >3x the cost), but I'd say that 99.99% of all new cars on sale have interiors that are just fine for their price point. Truly special, well-designed interiors with absolutely fabulous interior quality (which doesn't really, and has never applied to BMWs compared to Mercedes) are quite rare imhoHowever, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Personally, I would take the more charismatic ZL1 over an M4 anyday (admittedly, I'm not the target market - and yes I've driven both, a 1st gen ZL1 on a test-drive as well as a new M3 saloon), but then I prioritize a certain type of engagement in my cars.
BlackPrince said:
mylesmcd said:
Mark - reference your first comment before you throw any accusations like that around. You waded in - not me. I have driven and owned more of both types of cars that you could ever imagine.
However, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Past a point, does and should interior quality matter to enthusiasts? A 2004 Subaru Impreza STI has some cheap horrid feeling & looking interior bits. My 2016 NotImpreza STI certainly is nothing to write home about in terms of interior, but do I find myself actually noticing a HUGE difference between it, and say, my father's 2016 Mercedes S500? The Mercedes undoubtedly has a nicer interior (as it should at >3x the cost), but I'd say that 99.99% of all new cars on sale have interiors that are just fine for their price point. Truly special, well-designed interiors with absolutely fabulous interior quality (which doesn't really, and has never applied to BMWs compared to Mercedes) are quite rare imhoHowever, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Personally, I would take the more charismatic ZL1 over an M4 anyday (admittedly, I'm not the target market - and yes I've driven both, a 1st gen ZL1 on a test-drive as well as a new M3 saloon), but then I prioritize a certain type of engagement in my cars.
vz-r_dave said:
BlackPrince said:
mylesmcd said:
Mark - reference your first comment before you throw any accusations like that around. You waded in - not me. I have driven and owned more of both types of cars that you could ever imagine.
However, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Past a point, does and should interior quality matter to enthusiasts? A 2004 Subaru Impreza STI has some cheap horrid feeling & looking interior bits. My 2016 NotImpreza STI certainly is nothing to write home about in terms of interior, but do I find myself actually noticing a HUGE difference between it, and say, my father's 2016 Mercedes S500? The Mercedes undoubtedly has a nicer interior (as it should at >3x the cost), but I'd say that 99.99% of all new cars on sale have interiors that are just fine for their price point. Truly special, well-designed interiors with absolutely fabulous interior quality (which doesn't really, and has never applied to BMWs compared to Mercedes) are quite rare imhoHowever, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Personally, I would take the more charismatic ZL1 over an M4 anyday (admittedly, I'm not the target market - and yes I've driven both, a 1st gen ZL1 on a test-drive as well as a new M3 saloon), but then I prioritize a certain type of engagement in my cars.
If I was buying a track car starting with a 1700 kg (3883lbs for those in GA) coupe is not the place to start. Neither is something that costs 63k$. A supercharger V8, by all means but in order to drive the absolute out of it, you need to have no fear of financial ruin if you crash it. Unless your six numbers come in and then the Viper ACR wins the day. All day.
mylesmcd said:
vz-r_dave said:
BlackPrince said:
mylesmcd said:
Mark - reference your first comment before you throw any accusations like that around. You waded in - not me. I have driven and owned more of both types of cars that you could ever imagine.
However, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Past a point, does and should interior quality matter to enthusiasts? A 2004 Subaru Impreza STI has some cheap horrid feeling & looking interior bits. My 2016 NotImpreza STI certainly is nothing to write home about in terms of interior, but do I find myself actually noticing a HUGE difference between it, and say, my father's 2016 Mercedes S500? The Mercedes undoubtedly has a nicer interior (as it should at >3x the cost), but I'd say that 99.99% of all new cars on sale have interiors that are just fine for their price point. Truly special, well-designed interiors with absolutely fabulous interior quality (which doesn't really, and has never applied to BMWs compared to Mercedes) are quite rare imhoHowever, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Personally, I would take the more charismatic ZL1 over an M4 anyday (admittedly, I'm not the target market - and yes I've driven both, a 1st gen ZL1 on a test-drive as well as a new M3 saloon), but then I prioritize a certain type of engagement in my cars.
If I was buying a track car starting with a 1700 kg (3883lbs for those in GA) coupe is not the place to start. Neither is something that costs 63k$. A supercharger V8, by all means but in order to drive the absolute out of it, you need to have no fear of financial ruin if you crash it. Unless your six numbers come in and then the Viper ACR wins the day. All day.
vz-r_dave said:
It matters on forums like PH, which are full of interior enthusiasts it seems. Super charged V8..... track focused.... doesn't matter on PH. It's all about the soft touch interior...
[two men attempt to speak in women's voices]
A: Oooh, there's some lovely piping in a contrasting white.
B: Has it got at least 16 stitches per inch?
A: Dunno. But it's a nice complement to the brocade along the dashboard.
B: Don't talk to me about your oppressive Continental seams, you outré outfitter.
[SFX: sounds of struggle, flapping handbags]
unsprung said:
vz-r_dave said:
It matters on forums like PH, which are full of interior enthusiasts it seems. Super charged V8..... track focused.... doesn't matter on PH. It's all about the soft touch interior...
[two men attempt to speak in women's voices]
A: Oooh, there's some lovely piping in a contrasting white.
B: Has it got at least 16 stitches per inch?
A: Dunno. But it's a nice complement to the brocade along the dashboard.
B: Don't talk to me about your oppressive Continental seams, you outré outfitter.
[SFX: sounds of struggle, flapping handbags]
vz-r_dave said:
mylesmcd said:
vz-r_dave said:
BlackPrince said:
mylesmcd said:
Mark - reference your first comment before you throw any accusations like that around. You waded in - not me. I have driven and owned more of both types of cars that you could ever imagine.
However, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Past a point, does and should interior quality matter to enthusiasts? A 2004 Subaru Impreza STI has some cheap horrid feeling & looking interior bits. My 2016 NotImpreza STI certainly is nothing to write home about in terms of interior, but do I find myself actually noticing a HUGE difference between it, and say, my father's 2016 Mercedes S500? The Mercedes undoubtedly has a nicer interior (as it should at >3x the cost), but I'd say that 99.99% of all new cars on sale have interiors that are just fine for their price point. Truly special, well-designed interiors with absolutely fabulous interior quality (which doesn't really, and has never applied to BMWs compared to Mercedes) are quite rare imhoHowever, I suspect, you already know better. So this will be my last comment on the subject. Good day.
Personally, I would take the more charismatic ZL1 over an M4 anyday (admittedly, I'm not the target market - and yes I've driven both, a 1st gen ZL1 on a test-drive as well as a new M3 saloon), but then I prioritize a certain type of engagement in my cars.
If I was buying a track car starting with a 1700 kg (3883lbs for those in GA) coupe is not the place to start. Neither is something that costs 63k$. A supercharger V8, by all means but in order to drive the absolute out of it, you need to have no fear of financial ruin if you crash it. Unless your six numbers come in and then the Viper ACR wins the day. All day.
swerni said:
I'm a huge fan of the Camaro having owned one for several years.
The one thing i did find was the visibly was quite poor and as you were sat so low, it made judging the width difficult.
Clearly not an issue in the US but wasn't great over here. The S197 I had prior had much better visibility.
I've never been a dashboard stroker so internal finishes sit so far down the list, the've never been a priority.
I did look at the ZL1 to replace the Z06 but didn't bother doing it in the end
I really like the new Camaro, looks, performance, 'feel' - the one fly in the ointment (and quite a pathetic one in all honesty) is that fThe one thing i did find was the visibly was quite poor and as you were sat so low, it made judging the width difficult.
Clearly not an issue in the US but wasn't great over here. The S197 I had prior had much better visibility.
I've never been a dashboard stroker so internal finishes sit so far down the list, the've never been a priority.
I did look at the ZL1 to replace the Z06 but didn't bother doing it in the end
king cruise control! Merc CC is just brilliant, intuitive - no issues. Ford and Dodge not quite as good but again no issues. GM.... dear LORD!! WTF were they thinking. Had cruise control on the wife's 2010 Asra and loathed it (actually I loathed the whole car but that's a different story!) - and then I saw the very same CC on the Camaro. I nearly wept.irocfan said:
I really like the new Camaro, looks, performance, 'feel' - the one fly in the ointment (and quite a pathetic one in all honesty) is that fking cruise control! Merc CC is just brilliant, intuitive - no issues. Ford and Dodge not quite as good but again no issues. GM.... dear LORD!! WTF were they thinking. Had cruise control on the wife's 2010 Asra and loathed it (actually I loathed the whole car but that's a different story!) - and then I saw the very same CC on the Camaro. I nearly wept.
What issues do you have with the GM CC? Not that I use it much, but works fine for me.king cruise control! Merc CC is just brilliant, intuitive - no issues. Ford and Dodge not quite as good but again no issues. GM.... dear LORD!! WTF were they thinking. Had cruise control on the wife's 2010 Asra and loathed it (actually I loathed the whole car but that's a different story!) - and then I saw the very same CC on the Camaro. I nearly wept.HappyMidget said:
irocfan said:
I really like the new Camaro, looks, performance, 'feel' - the one fly in the ointment (and quite a pathetic one in all honesty) is that fking cruise control! Merc CC is just brilliant, intuitive - no issues. Ford and Dodge not quite as good but again no issues. GM.... dear LORD!! WTF were they thinking. Had cruise control on the wife's 2010 Asra and loathed it (actually I loathed the whole car but that's a different story!) - and then I saw the very same CC on the Camaro. I nearly wept.
What issues do you have with the GM CC? Not that I use it much, but works fine for me.king cruise control! Merc CC is just brilliant, intuitive - no issues. Ford and Dodge not quite as good but again no issues. GM.... dear LORD!! WTF were they thinking. Had cruise control on the wife's 2010 Asra and loathed it (actually I loathed the whole car but that's a different story!) - and then I saw the very same CC on the Camaro. I nearly wept.
turn it on, fine. SET it on the other hand loads of jiggling to make it work, in the end I pretty much gave up. "Interestingly" the older CC on the mid-80's and 90's Camaros were easy to use...
I've owned a fair number of cars including various German products (BMW, Audi and Porsche). I think all those who say the Camaro interior is poor are unlikely to have first hand experience. I have sat in and drove a 2017 SS. I was frankly amazed at the quality of everything interior-wise. Fit and finish was great, as were materials, controls and infotainment system. It had absolutely nothing to be jealous of compared to a BMW (including M cars). Not quite on par with Audi RS interiors, but then, frankly neither is BMW for that matter. External visibility was poor but you can get used to that.
I think American car manufacturers have massively closed the gap on European/German counterparts in the last 5 years. This is from a build quality and performance/handling viewpoint. Also, as they are relatively rare over here, the excitement and interest factor is high.
I own a Challenger Hellcat since around 6 months ago and I am so chuffed with it. I didn't expect the excitement to last this long. It makes all my previous German cars feel boring. Its interior isn't as nice as the Camaro but as a car, it is so lovable. Great build quality, immense V8 engine noise, handles surprisingly well and carries 5 with a massive boot. It also keeps getting constant positive comments from people (as I imagine the Camaro and Mustang do). Porsches, Audi RS and BMW M cars, in my experience, get a lot of hate.
I think American car manufacturers have massively closed the gap on European/German counterparts in the last 5 years. This is from a build quality and performance/handling viewpoint. Also, as they are relatively rare over here, the excitement and interest factor is high.
I own a Challenger Hellcat since around 6 months ago and I am so chuffed with it. I didn't expect the excitement to last this long. It makes all my previous German cars feel boring. Its interior isn't as nice as the Camaro but as a car, it is so lovable. Great build quality, immense V8 engine noise, handles surprisingly well and carries 5 with a massive boot. It also keeps getting constant positive comments from people (as I imagine the Camaro and Mustang do). Porsches, Audi RS and BMW M cars, in my experience, get a lot of hate.
Three quick points:
1. Complaining about the interior on a track-focused car that's slightly quicker than a GT2-RS around the Ring, has 650hp in a robust engine package, has spool valve suspension and costs $70k is entirely missing the point here.
2. Here in the US, the number of people cross shopping an M4 and a ZL1 is zero. It's a different market. The regular ZL1 is going to be purchased by a few 55-65 year old, prosperous, middle American white men and cross shopped with the GS Vette and the comparable Mustang and Challenger (as long as the buyer isn't an LS-partisan). The M4 is sold to 40 year old coastal elites who work in banking, law or medicine and don't have kids. As a $70K Camaro with a buckboard suspension, the market for the ZL1 1LE is tiny here in the US. I imagine a lot of these are going to be purchased by collectors and rarely driven.
3. I understand this is a UK site, but this car isn't sold in the UK. Discussing the engineering or setup of this car in the context of UK driving conditions is not relevant. Things are a bit different here, this car needs to be understood in the US context.
1. Complaining about the interior on a track-focused car that's slightly quicker than a GT2-RS around the Ring, has 650hp in a robust engine package, has spool valve suspension and costs $70k is entirely missing the point here.
2. Here in the US, the number of people cross shopping an M4 and a ZL1 is zero. It's a different market. The regular ZL1 is going to be purchased by a few 55-65 year old, prosperous, middle American white men and cross shopped with the GS Vette and the comparable Mustang and Challenger (as long as the buyer isn't an LS-partisan). The M4 is sold to 40 year old coastal elites who work in banking, law or medicine and don't have kids. As a $70K Camaro with a buckboard suspension, the market for the ZL1 1LE is tiny here in the US. I imagine a lot of these are going to be purchased by collectors and rarely driven.
3. I understand this is a UK site, but this car isn't sold in the UK. Discussing the engineering or setup of this car in the context of UK driving conditions is not relevant. Things are a bit different here, this car needs to be understood in the US context.
Edited by Hiro11 on Thursday 26th October 18:26
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