RE: Abarth 124 Spider vs. Mazda MX-5 2.0
Discussion
corozin said:
The problem the Fiat is up against is that it's £30k new and for less money you can get a 2-3 year old 981 Boxster...
Let's face it, if it was your money you'd be crackers to buy the Fiat.
You missed the bit where pre reg 124 abarths are £24k and a new 718 boxster is £45k without options right? even a caymen is £43kLet's face it, if it was your money you'd be crackers to buy the Fiat.
Or are we back to the PH dog turd of comparing a 2-3 year old used car with a brand new one ? because that is pure dog turd.
And most 2015 boxsters are £35k+
Edited by RobDickinson on Saturday 14th October 01:21
RobDickinson said:
You missed the bit where pre reg 124 abarths are £24k and a new 718 boxster is £45k without options right? even a caymen is £43k
Or are we back to the PH dog turd of comparing a 2-3 year old used car with a brand new one ? because that is pure dog turd.
And most 2015 boxsters are £35k+
And a used porsche offers a different suite of running costs, warrantied or not. I also didn't want to be the millionth boxster owner in london. They're more common than hackney carriages.Or are we back to the PH dog turd of comparing a 2-3 year old used car with a brand new one ? because that is pure dog turd.
And most 2015 boxsters are £35k+
Edited by RobDickinson on Saturday 14th October 01:21
Given that 90% of people seems to lease their cars the ticket price can obscure the ownership costs, depending on depreciation and interest rates of course. I'd wager many people are paying a higher pcp rate through main dealer finance?
The 981 is mega btw, huge respect for it.
Dynamic Turtle said:
Itsallicanafford said:
Tricky one this, I had a NA MX-5 for 5 years, did 20k miles in it, 15 + trackdays...loved it. Now we have a Megane 275 Cup-S, I would really struggle to go back to the 'less is more' motoring that these 2 cars represent. Modern hot hatches are just so talented and at 30k it's a short walk to a civic type R which was absolutely murder these roadsters at everything apart from the ability to take the roof off.
And your wife would probably murder you for buying something so fugly!An MX5 is then to be expected, or an Abarth 500.....
Whilst reading the MX-5 parts of the review I thought 'the reviewer must be driving the non-Sport package without the Bilstein dampers etc.'.
I honestly believe in this case the reviewer has been a bit too timid in finding the limits of the MX-5. Sure, the over-eager lean-in does feel unsettling and not exactly confidence-inspiring, but if you keep pressing it you'll find it just holds and holds. I've seen other reviews mention these findings, too.
Just for the record, I drove the the non-Sport version first and absolutely hated it. I'm glad I persevered and test drove the 2.0 Sport with the Bilsteins! It's been my current daily for almost a year now, and I think it will continue to be for some time.
I honestly believe in this case the reviewer has been a bit too timid in finding the limits of the MX-5. Sure, the over-eager lean-in does feel unsettling and not exactly confidence-inspiring, but if you keep pressing it you'll find it just holds and holds. I've seen other reviews mention these findings, too.
Just for the record, I drove the the non-Sport version first and absolutely hated it. I'm glad I persevered and test drove the 2.0 Sport with the Bilsteins! It's been my current daily for almost a year now, and I think it will continue to be for some time.
Edited by PoisonJam on Monday 16th October 08:37
PoisonJam said:
Whilst reading the MX-5 parts of the review I thought 'the reviewer must be driving the non-Sport package without the Bilstein dampers etc.'.
I honestly believe in this case the reviewer has been a bit too timid in finding the limits of the MX-5. Sure, the over-eager lean-in does feel unsettling and not exactly confidence-inspiring, but if you keep pressing it you'll find it just holds and holds. I've seen other reviews mention these findings, too.
Just for the record, I drove the the non-Sport version first and absolutely hated it. I'm glad I persevered and test drove the 2.0 Sport with the Bilsteins! It's been my current daily for almost a year now, and I think it will continue to be for some time.
Remember we all like different things what you like the next person hates, you see it in this thread This who like the looks of the 124 those who don’t. Those who like a 2.0NA vs those who enjoy a 1.4 turbo. Same goes for the handling. I honestly believe in this case the reviewer has been a bit too timid in finding the limits of the MX-5. Sure, the over-eager lean-in does feel unsettling and not exactly confidence-inspiring, but if you keep pressing it you'll find it just holds and holds. I've seen other reviews mention these findings, too.
Just for the record, I drove the the non-Sport version first and absolutely hated it. I'm glad I persevered and test drove the 2.0 Sport with the Bilsteins! It's been my current daily for almost a year now, and I think it will continue to be for some time.
Edited by PoisonJam on Monday 16th October 08:37
ecsrobin said:
Remember we all like different things what you like the next person hates, you see it in this thread This who like the looks of the 124 those who don’t. Those who like a 2.0NA vs those who enjoy a 1.4 turbo. Same goes for the handling.
Of course that's true, but it was specifically the statement about having to slow down a lot for a corner and not being able to carry any speed into it, something which I don't believe is that subjective? If you push this car in a corner - something which doesn't feel comfortable at first because of the lean - it will hold on a lot better than it first gives you the impression of. With most other cars, when you have this kind of lean on, the car is telling you it's at its limits. With the MX-5 ND, though, they made the roll a characteristic, so it does lean over far before the car has ran out of grip.It took me a lot of adjusting to, and to be honest I'd rather it didn't lean this much and I will likely rectify this one day, but it doesn't actually have a negative effect on its ability, only the feel. Hope that makes sense...
PoisonJam said:
ecsrobin said:
Remember we all like different things what you like the next person hates, you see it in this thread This who like the looks of the 124 those who don’t. Those who like a 2.0NA vs those who enjoy a 1.4 turbo. Same goes for the handling.
Of course that's true, but it was specifically the statement about having to slow down a lot for a corner and not being able to carry any speed into it, something which I don't believe is that subjective? If you push this car in a corner - something which doesn't feel comfortable at first because of the lean - it will hold on a lot better than it first gives you the impression of. With most other cars, when you have this kind of lean on, the car is telling you it's at its limits. With the MX-5 ND, though, they made the roll a characteristic, so it does lean over far before the car has ran out of grip.It took me a lot of adjusting to, and to be honest I'd rather it didn't lean this much and I will likely rectify this one day, but it doesn't actually have a negative effect on its ability, only the feel. Hope that makes sense...
WJNB said:
Just had a hought ...
I live the smarty farty part of the UK most cluttered up with people & cars & yet I have not seen the gormless Fiat version of the MX-5 & the only new MX-5's are being driven by old people reliving their youth on a budget.
A family friend who is an older lady has a new MX5, she too has noticed most new MX5’s are owned by old ladies and so is currently in the market for a new car I live the smarty farty part of the UK most cluttered up with people & cars & yet I have not seen the gormless Fiat version of the MX-5 & the only new MX-5's are being driven by old people reliving their youth on a budget.
Picked up my Abarth 124 Spider last Friday and had a great weekend driving around in it.
First impressions are that it is great value for money (66 reg with 650 miles on it for £25K with both of the available optional extras – better sound system including a SatNav card and visibility pack)
Previous car was a Jaguar Ftype R 5.0L AWD coupe, so it wouldn’t be fair to compare the two, but I think the Abarth provides lots of fun for a lot less money and this is why I feel the Abarth is great value.
One thing I found in these first couple of days was the amount of interest that the car got, far more than I ever got in the F-type! I noticed a lot of cars driving on my rear bumper trying to figure out what it was!
Really pleased with the performance of that 1.4L engine and a nice exhaust note. I found the Jaguar to be a bit obnoxious after a while with all the pops and crackles, it is fun to start with, but I found that the novelty wore off.
Really comfortable ride and great fun to drive. Seems to be great on fuel which is a nice bonus!
I know they aren’t for everyone and some of you will think I am mad to sell an F-type and buy an Abarth, but I had done the F-type and wanted a good fun little convertible that wouldn’t cost a fortune to run/maintain and wouldn’t lose mega money in depreciation - the Spider seems to fit the bill nicely!
First impressions are that it is great value for money (66 reg with 650 miles on it for £25K with both of the available optional extras – better sound system including a SatNav card and visibility pack)
Previous car was a Jaguar Ftype R 5.0L AWD coupe, so it wouldn’t be fair to compare the two, but I think the Abarth provides lots of fun for a lot less money and this is why I feel the Abarth is great value.
One thing I found in these first couple of days was the amount of interest that the car got, far more than I ever got in the F-type! I noticed a lot of cars driving on my rear bumper trying to figure out what it was!
Really pleased with the performance of that 1.4L engine and a nice exhaust note. I found the Jaguar to be a bit obnoxious after a while with all the pops and crackles, it is fun to start with, but I found that the novelty wore off.
Really comfortable ride and great fun to drive. Seems to be great on fuel which is a nice bonus!
I know they aren’t for everyone and some of you will think I am mad to sell an F-type and buy an Abarth, but I had done the F-type and wanted a good fun little convertible that wouldn’t cost a fortune to run/maintain and wouldn’t lose mega money in depreciation - the Spider seems to fit the bill nicely!
A124S said:
One thing I found in these first couple of days was the amount of interest that the car got, far more than I ever got in the F-type! I noticed a lot of cars driving on my rear bumper trying to figure out what it was!
I've had a lot of this with my Fiat 124 too. Oddly, no-one so far has told me they think it's "fugly" or "gormless" either, the overwhelming opinion is that it's a good looking car. The slagging off seems to be the exclusive preserve of the PH keyboard warrior types who probably aren't in the market for a 2 seater roadster anyway. Customers visiting our office invariably end up taking pictures of it even though there are far better things to take photos of.I have just switched to a 2ltr MX5 from a big power Caterham and am very much enjoying the change. I actually love the current MX5 styling - short, angular and with a hint of Tamora . It is roomier than a Seven of course but not as much as you might think. I am 5-11 and another 2 inches height and it would be too small. And obviously I find the boot space cavernous...
Cockpit lovely - very comfy and, bizzarely , the instruments echo an Alpine Renault A110 . But wot, no oil temp or pressure? Ace swivelly headlights; are they LED ? Can't recall . Hood is bloody marvellous - but it would be after a Caterham wouldn't it ?
Engine is a willing worker with very little flywheel effect so it's ace for heel and toeing. Most commentators tend to deprecate the Mazda's performance - presumably to give the impression they only drive 300bhp rocketshoppers and supercars . It's actually a quick enough car , compared to most of what I encounter on a typical trip anyway . I am grown up enough not to feel my manhood shrivel if I am out accelerated by a warmer TT or a 335D , let alone by some parping and farting AMG A45 - I mean , who over the age of twelve bloody well cares very much ?
Brakes and gearchange are perfect.
Noise - nothing like as much induction noise as many tests suggest - hood down the main noise
is a subdued rasp from exhaust.
Steering - the one real flaw . On motorways it feels disconcertingly vague and whilst it sharpens up on twisty B roads it just doesn't talk to me . For a car inspired originally by the Lotus Elan (whose steering was sublime ) and whose brand moniker is all that squiggly writing Jinnba Ittai stuff - 'horse and rider as one '- Mazda has ..ahem.. stumbled at the fence which is the most important. So room for improvement there.
Handling - a hoot. It is more throttle adjustable than anything 'normal ' I have driven since a 205GTI. With scalpel steering it would be even better . Roll? A bit - but so did Elans .Ride ? Better than most things I have driven in recent years , firm but compliant and just so much better than big tyred Focus and Tiguan I have owned .
I get silly mpg - high 30 s and more , even when making brisk progress and I am delighted with it . I agree that it is not an outright sports car like an Exige , let alone a Seven. But if sports tourers still are a thing , the MX5 is near the top of the class.
Cockpit lovely - very comfy and, bizzarely , the instruments echo an Alpine Renault A110 . But wot, no oil temp or pressure? Ace swivelly headlights; are they LED ? Can't recall . Hood is bloody marvellous - but it would be after a Caterham wouldn't it ?
Engine is a willing worker with very little flywheel effect so it's ace for heel and toeing. Most commentators tend to deprecate the Mazda's performance - presumably to give the impression they only drive 300bhp rocketshoppers and supercars . It's actually a quick enough car , compared to most of what I encounter on a typical trip anyway . I am grown up enough not to feel my manhood shrivel if I am out accelerated by a warmer TT or a 335D , let alone by some parping and farting AMG A45 - I mean , who over the age of twelve bloody well cares very much ?
Brakes and gearchange are perfect.
Noise - nothing like as much induction noise as many tests suggest - hood down the main noise
is a subdued rasp from exhaust.
Steering - the one real flaw . On motorways it feels disconcertingly vague and whilst it sharpens up on twisty B roads it just doesn't talk to me . For a car inspired originally by the Lotus Elan (whose steering was sublime ) and whose brand moniker is all that squiggly writing Jinnba Ittai stuff - 'horse and rider as one '- Mazda has ..ahem.. stumbled at the fence which is the most important. So room for improvement there.
Handling - a hoot. It is more throttle adjustable than anything 'normal ' I have driven since a 205GTI. With scalpel steering it would be even better . Roll? A bit - but so did Elans .Ride ? Better than most things I have driven in recent years , firm but compliant and just so much better than big tyred Focus and Tiguan I have owned .
I get silly mpg - high 30 s and more , even when making brisk progress and I am delighted with it . I agree that it is not an outright sports car like an Exige , let alone a Seven. But if sports tourers still are a thing , the MX5 is near the top of the class.
Edited by coppice on Tuesday 17th October 09:04
Edited by coppice on Tuesday 17th October 09:05
coppice said:
I have just switched to a 2ltr MX5 from a big power Caterham and am very much enjoying the change. I actually love the current MX5 styling - short, angular and with a hint of Tamora . It is roomier than a Seven of course but not as much as you might think. I am 5-11 and another 2 inches height and it would be too small. And obviously I find the boot space cavernous...
Cockpit lovely - very comfy and, bizzarely , the instruments echo an Alpine Renault A110 . But wot, no oil temp or pressure? Ace swivelly headlights; are they LED ? Can't recall . Hood is bloody marvellous - but it would be after a Caterham wouldn't it ?
Engine is a willing worker with very little flywheel effect so it's ace for heel and toeing. Most commentators tend to deprecate the Mazda's performance - presumably to give the impression they only drive 300bhp rocketshoppers and supercars . It's actually a quick enough car , compared to most of what I encounter on a typical trip anyway . I am grown up enough not to feel my manhood shrivel if I am out accelerated by a warmer TT or a 335D , let alone by some parping and farting AMG A45 - I mean , who over the age of twelve bloody well cares very much ?
Brakes and gearchange are perfect.
Noise - nothing like as much induction noise as many tests suggest - hood down the main noise
is a subdued rasp from exhaust.
Steering - the one real flaw . On motorways it feels disconcertingly vague and whilst it sharpens up on twisty B roads it just doesn't talk to me . For a car inspired originally by the Lotus Elan (whose steering was sublime ) and whose brand moniker is all that squiggly writing Jinnba Ittai stuff - 'horse and rider as one '- Mazda has ..ahem.. stumbled at the fence which is the most important. So room for improvement there.
Handling - a hoot. It is more throttle adjustable than anything 'normal ' I have driven since a 205GTI. With scalpel steering it would be even better . Roll? A bit - but so did Elans .Ride ? Better than most things I have driven in recent years , firm but compliant and just so much better than big tyred Focus and Tiguan I have owned .
I get silly mpg - high 30 s and more , even when making brisk progress and I am delighted with it . I agree that it is not an outright sports car like an Exige , let alone a Seven. But if sports tourers still are a thing , the MX5 is near the top of the class.
Very well put, we did exactly the same after many years of seven ownership.Cockpit lovely - very comfy and, bizzarely , the instruments echo an Alpine Renault A110 . But wot, no oil temp or pressure? Ace swivelly headlights; are they LED ? Can't recall . Hood is bloody marvellous - but it would be after a Caterham wouldn't it ?
Engine is a willing worker with very little flywheel effect so it's ace for heel and toeing. Most commentators tend to deprecate the Mazda's performance - presumably to give the impression they only drive 300bhp rocketshoppers and supercars . It's actually a quick enough car , compared to most of what I encounter on a typical trip anyway . I am grown up enough not to feel my manhood shrivel if I am out accelerated by a warmer TT or a 335D , let alone by some parping and farting AMG A45 - I mean , who over the age of twelve bloody well cares very much ?
Brakes and gearchange are perfect.
Noise - nothing like as much induction noise as many tests suggest - hood down the main noise
is a subdued rasp from exhaust.
Steering - the one real flaw . On motorways it feels disconcertingly vague and whilst it sharpens up on twisty B roads it just doesn't talk to me . For a car inspired originally by the Lotus Elan (whose steering was sublime ) and whose brand moniker is all that squiggly writing Jinnba Ittai stuff - 'horse and rider as one '- Mazda has ..ahem.. stumbled at the fence which is the most important. So room for improvement there.
Handling - a hoot. It is more throttle adjustable than anything 'normal ' I have driven since a 205GTI. With scalpel steering it would be even better . Roll? A bit - but so did Elans .Ride ? Better than most things I have driven in recent years , firm but compliant and just so much better than big tyred Focus and Tiguan I have owned .
I get silly mpg - high 30 s and more , even when making brisk progress and I am delighted with it . I agree that it is not an outright sports car like an Exige , let alone a Seven. But if sports tourers still are a thing , the MX5 is near the top of the class.
Edited by coppice on Tuesday 17th October 09:04
Edited by coppice on Tuesday 17th October 09:05
Steering - yes a bugger that they didn't get this quite right given all the other attributes of the car, I am hoping that there may be a fix one day. There is some thought that the rack off the RF is better and has more feel, mixed views on this though ... Keith Tanner from Flyin' Miata claiming there is a very obvious improvement whereas Neil at BBR said he can't really say he has noticed any difference ? If they do improve the rack one day then a straight swop could be a worthwhile upgrade. I know the hydraulic vs EPAS debate will go on and on but other manufacturers have proved that EPAS can work very well. Mazda needed a class leading EPAS system and they really missed a trick with this in my opinion, particularly given all the efforts made in other areas !!
I understand the rack in the Fiat is weightier but Flyin' Miata prefer that in the Mazda ?
Bennet said:
Very dissappointed to hear the MX5 doesn't have decent steering feel. What is left that actually has steering feel? Lotus? Is that it?
If you use the Elise as a benchmark then i think you will likely always feel short changed.There are however several choices of modern performance cars out there that offer perfectly acceptable steering feel (IMHO of course) that don't really detract from the driving experience, Renaultsport for example do a good job of it. The steering in the Trophy Megane, yes its not as good as an Elise but does it ever detract from the driving experience, absolutely not, feels razor sharp and alive in your hands.
As ever all very subjective though !!
The NC was still hydraulic power steering while the ND is electric and there is a noticeable drop off if you care about feel. There is still plenty of feedback through the seat/pedals.
I've not driven an electric power steering system that I rate for driver feedback at all, but I haven't driven the latest Porsches and the reviewers state that Porsche have finally nailed it. I'd also qualify it that I found the Evora 400 (remote hydraulic power steering whatever that is) nowhere as commutative as I expected when I drove that (but it is tons better than the average sports car at or below that price point from other companies), personally the Exige or Elise is the gold standard for me for current Lotus production road cars, but then they have no power steering.
I'd accept that the level of feedback I'm wanting from a focused drivers car would be quite tiring on a long journey.
I've not driven an electric power steering system that I rate for driver feedback at all, but I haven't driven the latest Porsches and the reviewers state that Porsche have finally nailed it. I'd also qualify it that I found the Evora 400 (remote hydraulic power steering whatever that is) nowhere as commutative as I expected when I drove that (but it is tons better than the average sports car at or below that price point from other companies), personally the Exige or Elise is the gold standard for me for current Lotus production road cars, but then they have no power steering.
I'd accept that the level of feedback I'm wanting from a focused drivers car would be quite tiring on a long journey.
coppice said:
Steering - the one real flaw . On motorways it feels disconcertingly vague and whilst it sharpens up on twisty B roads it just doesn't talk to me . For a car inspired originally by the Lotus Elan (whose steering was sublime ) and whose brand moniker is all that squiggly writing Jinnba Ittai stuff - 'horse and rider as one '- Mazda has ..ahem.. stumbled at the fence which is the most important. So room for improvement there.
The Fiat is the same in that way, I wondered if they'd built some "sneeze factor" into it around the straight ahead because it's quite a quick rack. They certainly made it feel slightly heftier than it was in the ND MX5 I tested when I was buying mine but this may have been down to the MX5 being on 16" rims where the 124 is on 17s. Unfortunately though, extra weight does not equal extra feel!I guess that because everything else is so bloody woolly these days that the 124 and MX5 count as having "decent" steering feel compared to the common herd but every time I jump in my old Alfa 75 (hydraulic PAS) I'm reminded of how much better steering used to be before it went electric and wheel sizes got too stupid.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff