RE: Polestar launches as independent EV manufacturer
Discussion
HeMightBeBanned said:
Read the article again. Weight reduction. High performance. Driver involvement. Steering feel. All Lotus qualities. Either you're being purposely obtuse, you live on the moon on you're just a bit thick. Which is it?
We all know that’s marketing b
ks though, you’ll read the same things in any press release for any car with remotely sporting intentions. What this car is trying to do is provide a stylish, design-led, fast & comfy high tech left field alternative to things like upcoming 8-series. I would consider a lot of that pretty alien to Lotus. Good effort, front looks like an A5 to me, roughly.
Volvo are producing desirable cars but not yet at the level of Germans for build quality. We looked at an XC90 and on the surface looks great, modern inside, the reality is that it looks that way but the infotainment system is not as slick or fast as other offerings and some quality details are not there. For us was a matter of not finding it to be good value compared to other premium brands. The new saloon and estate look great but the 4 cal only engines made us go elsewhere for now. Perhaps next car will be for them, certainly the design is more interesting than some bland looking premium German cars.
Volvo are producing desirable cars but not yet at the level of Germans for build quality. We looked at an XC90 and on the surface looks great, modern inside, the reality is that it looks that way but the infotainment system is not as slick or fast as other offerings and some quality details are not there. For us was a matter of not finding it to be good value compared to other premium brands. The new saloon and estate look great but the 4 cal only engines made us go elsewhere for now. Perhaps next car will be for them, certainly the design is more interesting than some bland looking premium German cars.
ducnick said:
Back on the subject of the rebadged Volvo. I think it looks great. Like a much better looking gen6 Camaro.
I get the notional price too. Think what other 2 door coupes with similar performance and quality interior cost in its home market. How much do you think a bmw 650i costs in Scandinavia? Correct pretty much what it costs in the UK befor tax. But then you pay the purchase tax which takes it well north of euro 200k. Even if you start cheaper with a 45k mustang or Camaro it will cost more than the Volvo here after tax.
If they are limiting production to 500 units all LHD they aren’t going to loose out on sales at this price. They will simply all get sold in regions where the tax regime favours this EV hybrid on a passport scheme over conventional IC competitors on an ownership model.
Well I guess that explains the Scandinavian pricing a bit moreI get the notional price too. Think what other 2 door coupes with similar performance and quality interior cost in its home market. How much do you think a bmw 650i costs in Scandinavia? Correct pretty much what it costs in the UK befor tax. But then you pay the purchase tax which takes it well north of euro 200k. Even if you start cheaper with a 45k mustang or Camaro it will cost more than the Volvo here after tax.
If they are limiting production to 500 units all LHD they aren’t going to loose out on sales at this price. They will simply all get sold in regions where the tax regime favours this EV hybrid on a passport scheme over conventional IC competitors on an ownership model.
But I still think it is extremely pricey in other markets, if this is the future of motoring then it’s sad.
100K + used to [and still does to an extent] get you a V8, V10, V12 RWD extremely performance coupe – but not for your 130k EUR you are getting a coupe with a 2.0 4 cylinder sending 377bhp to the front wheels then a couple of electric motors sending 215bhp to the rear
I don’t think this will revolutionize anything, maybe it will revolutionize the ultra-niche 130K luxury performance hybrid coupe market for the ultra rich 0.5%.
I really like the look of this car and was hoping it would be a competitor to a E Class Coupe or 6 Series - with a similar price and have a choice of engines [including a hybrid] then it would be a car I would consider.
But instead it’s a completely different market
Performance cars at a similar price to this is stuff like the Merc S Class Coupe 63 AMG Version, most high end 911’s, even things like an R8 or 570S not far off in terms of price
Ps it’s not just Scandinavia. Same in Belgium and the Netherlands too. Italy are moving this way with their bhp tax which has killed the big/fast car market for them.
Agreed they will sell none in the UK, Germany or France. But with only 500 units to shift and customers in the Low Countries, Italy and Scandinavia being raped with car tax on anything over 2 litres or 180 bhp it makes a competitive case for itself.
For me this is the modern equivalent of the turbo diesel being used in luxury cars. The bmw 640d for example would never have been conceived in the USA where there is no tax regime to provide a business case. As more and more countries impose tax regimes that favor 2L EV cars on a pay per use scheme the manufacturers will oblige.
Agreed they will sell none in the UK, Germany or France. But with only 500 units to shift and customers in the Low Countries, Italy and Scandinavia being raped with car tax on anything over 2 litres or 180 bhp it makes a competitive case for itself.
For me this is the modern equivalent of the turbo diesel being used in luxury cars. The bmw 640d for example would never have been conceived in the USA where there is no tax regime to provide a business case. As more and more countries impose tax regimes that favor 2L EV cars on a pay per use scheme the manufacturers will oblige.
Edited by ducnick on Wednesday 18th October 10:58
ducnick said:
The passport ownership model is a natural stepping stone to the eventual autonomous Uber model. The white goods car companies (and by this I mean anyone other than Morgan and caterham et al) will shortly disappear or be suppliers to Uber. Personal car insurance will be a thing of the past, small garages , and road tax too. The passport model will get the general public used to the idea of not owning a car but using the right sort of car for the occasion from the pool of available cars and operating it from your phone. From there it’s not such a great leap to Uber that autonomous whit van on Sunday for the tip run. The passport model is a fleet buyers dream. Each band of employee has access to a different passport level in their benefits package. The M.D. May get 300 days a year with the limo/super car. The junior sales monkey might get 2 days a yr, upped to 10 if he hits his bonus targets. No insurance or maintenance to worry about. No tax. No breakdown cover. Know operating costs for the annual budget plan. Hallelujah!
I believe that's broadly accurate, with the exception that the US market will not be dominated by the employer-subsidised or employer-provided model that you cite. Rather, it will be mostly direct-to-consumer.There is also, I believe, a potential renaissance in low-volume single-purpose types of vehicles (sports cars, off-roaders, etc.) which may be enabled via networking, crowdsourcing, 3D printing and other solutions that make low-volume things possible and relatively affordable.
The 500 units to be offered by Polestar -- on this exec coupe -- present a good opportunity for the brand and its Volvo and Geely parents to get a handle on the operational and capital requirements of managing a subscription-based business. Good on them. It's still more of a one-percenter thing than a mass-market thing. But still early days. I'm keen to learn what they learn!
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff