Should we be getting behind Brexit by boycotting German cars

[swisstoni]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Er yes, that's actually the point I was making. The fate of the EU nationals is not being dangled by the UK negotiators - its tied up with all the other preliminary stuff that's yet to be agreed between the EU and the UK.

[OldBob]

TooMany2cvs said:

Why the entire UK? What do I care about what might be right for the people of Peterborough or Peterhead or Penzance? Why not just this county?
In fact, why the whole county? Why not just this village, dammit?
In fact, bugger the neighbours... <puts up barbed wire around garden>

Really, you're going to go with that lame argument as a valid argument are you?

How on earth have you compared our relationship, common culture and societal behaviour within the UK counties with say Slovenia or accession countries such as Albania
Are you a "no borders" advocate?
Do you lock you front door - you xenophobe!

Hold on - I think you've got a point with Peterborough...

[OldBob]

TooMany2cvs said:

Umm, this might seem a minor point, but it's actually a VERY important one...

The UK is one of the biggest countries in the EU - as well as one of the richest - so it's only natural that we're one of the highest net contributors, viewed as a nation.

But view it PER CAPITA (a far more important and relevant metric), and the truth is very different to your portrayal.

Why is that more important than the total figure given as a redistributable amount?

[babatunde]

TooMany2cvs said:

OldBob said:

The UK government made up solely of politicians that the UK electorate voted for would be nice. Why would you want to be governed by anybody else other than those who are directly accountable and removable by the UK electorate? - why stop at one parliament above ours, the more the merrier eh?

Why the entire UK? What do I care about what might be right for the people of Peterborough or Peterhead or Penzance? Why not just this county?
In fact, why the whole county? Why not just this village, dammit?
In fact, bugger the neighbours... <puts up barbed wire around garden>

And that children is the theory of Libertarianism and why we are living under a tree as we couldn't afford the price the fire brigade were asking

[ATG]

OldBob said:

Why is that more important than the total figure given as a redistributable amount?

Not sure if serious?

[wst]

babatunde said:

And that children is the theory of Libertarianism and why we are living under a tree as we couldn't afford the price the fire brigade were asking

Eh, that's not strictly the theory of libertarianism, but it is equally as intelligent (if viewed seriously, while that post was going more for sarcasm).

[TooMany2cvs]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Where to start...?

Firstly, it was the Honda partnership that dragged "BL" out of the death throes, the first fruit of which was the 1981 Triumph Acclaim. The Maestro and Montego were pure "BL"/AR...

AR only survived privatisation for two years before being taken over, initially by BAe in 88, who sold it to BMW in 94. BMW kept it - investing heavily - for six years, until they realised it just wasn't working - and sold it back to UK ownership... Phoenix. Within five years, it was dead in a mess of recriminations.

The only bits that survived were the bits that were sold to the yanks instead, or were simply kept by BMW.

[Killboy]

ATG said:

Not sure if serious?

Thats it, I'm out.

[OldBob]

Killboy said:

Thats it, I'm out.

Sounds like a plan.

[InitialDave]

At least he's not forcing the rest of us to join him.

[Zod]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not this st again.

[Toltec]

OldBob said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Umm, this might seem a minor point, but it's actually a VERY important one...

The UK is one of the biggest countries in the EU - as well as one of the richest - so it's only natural that we're one of the highest net contributors, viewed as a nation.

But view it PER CAPITA (a far more important and relevant metric), and the truth is very different to your portrayal.

Why is that more important than the total figure given as a redistributable amount?

Net % of GDP is a better measure, admittedly old figures found on a quick search here-

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov...

The Netherlands and Italy are the highest I think at 0.31% and 0.3%, Germany lower at 0.29%, UK lower still at 0.27%, France at 0.24% with Austria the lowest net contributor at 0.21%. Luxemburg takes quite a lot, I thought they had lots of banks holding rich peoples money...

Belgium, sucking at 0.92% is a surprise.

Looks like back in 2012 the UK was a pretty mid range contributor.

[996TT02]

OldBob said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Why the entire UK? What do I care about what might be right for the people of Peterborough or Peterhead or Penzance? Why not just this county?
In fact, why the whole county? Why not just this village, dammit?
In fact, bugger the neighbours... <puts up barbed wire around garden>

Really, you're going to go with that lame argument as a valid argument are you?

How on earth have you compared our relationship, common culture and societal behaviour within the UK counties with say Slovenia or accession countries such as Albania
Are you a "no borders" advocate?
Do you lock you front door - you xenophobe!

Hold on - I think you've got a point with Peterborough...

Yes, adjusting to the founding principles of the EU will certainly take time, because cultural differences, created by centuries of physical isolation, do exist. But it's the vision of the future, where artificial scribbles on a paper map currently defined as borders, where nothing physical necessarily exists, will eventually be something that future generations will ridicule. In no way does this mean that there is no necessity to maintain local governance to reflect these cultural and economic differences. The US seems to manage fine with its 50 states way of doing things. Leavers and right-wingers across the world on the other hand, look back at the "glorious" past, and attempt to return to it. You know, the past that is full of emotional images of "national pride", rather than wars, misery, and "principles" that result in lower quality of life for all citizens across the board.

[TooMany2cvs]

996TT02 said:

OldBob said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Why the entire UK? What do I care about what might be right for the people of Peterborough or Peterhead or Penzance? Why not just this county?
In fact, why the whole county? Why not just this village, dammit?
In fact, bugger the neighbours... <puts up barbed wire around garden>

Really, you're going to go with that lame argument as a valid argument are you?

How on earth have you compared our relationship, common culture and societal behaviour within the UK counties with say Slovenia or accession countries such as Albania
Are you a "no borders" advocate?
Do you lock you front door - you xenophobe!

Hold on - I think you've got a point with Peterborough...

Yes, adjusting to the founding principles of the EU will certainly take time, because cultural differences, created by centuries of physical isolation, do exist. But it's the vision of the future, where artificial scribbles on a paper map currently defined as borders, where nothing physical necessarily exists, will eventually be something that future generations will ridicule. In no way does this mean that there is no necessity to maintain local governance to reflect these cultural and economic differences. The US seems to manage fine with its 50 states way of doing things. Leavers and right-wingers across the world on the other hand, look back at the "glorious" past, and attempt to return to it. You know, the past that is full of emotional images of "national pride", rather than wars, misery, and "principles" that result in lower quality of life for all citizens across the board.

<nods>
What IS so special about "The United Kingdom"? Why SHOULD I give that much of a toss about its current form, rather than anything larger or smaller? Look across Europe - countries that have only existed for decades or a century and a half are FAR more common than the UK's long-term relative consistency - and people forget that the UK's own current borders aren't even a century old - within living memory.

I mean, it's not as if leaving the EU is going to mean the UK leaves every other supranational organisation, too, so it'll still be subject to the whim and governance of umpteen other (far less electorally accountable) bodies.

I've got far more in common with friends and colleagues across Europe - and beyond - than with large swathes of the UK population. What link do I have with them? I happen to carry the same passport? Woo...

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel, as Samuel Johnson said.

And, no, I do not give the first toss about sport, whichever flavour of our fked-up, fragmented, inconsistent, historically-inaccurate "national" identity happens to be being waved around.

[anonymous-user]

TooMany2cvs said:

Well, yes.

You know - the government YOU vote for, and the MEPs YOU vote for...

So who would you rather decided, if not elected representatives? The owners of newspapers? Or just you?

I wrote to one of my regional MEP's last week following her vote to abstain from allowing the negotiations to be expanded to trade. So far I have not received any response.

[Hungrymc]

There is a tone of anger towards the UK by some posters. It reads as anger towards the ‘crap’ nation as opposed to anger towards the Brexit vote. I find that very odd, it’s the same kind of irrational, gross generalisation that many accuse the ‘stupid’ Brexit voters of.

How many of us are out there who would have MUCH rather remained, but also understand that nothing is as simplistic as either the EU or the UK is a ‘Great’ or ‘Crap’. And if Brexit stops will celebrate and if it continues will do our best to make it work as well as we can?

From the whole saga, I don’t resent people who voted either way, I do resent the tone that is often adopted in discussions (it’s just not needed and is as destructive as the two campaigns were).... And more than that I’m appalled by Cameron and Juncker and the leaders of both campaigns.

[TooMany2cvs]

jsf said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Well, yes.

You know - the government YOU vote for, and the MEPs YOU vote for...

So who would you rather decided, if not elected representatives? The owners of newspapers? Or just you?

I wrote to one of my regional MEP's last week following her vote to abstain from allowing the negotiations to be expanded to trade. So far I have not received any response.

I wrote to my MP a while back - and didn't even get a standard acknowledgement. st, isn't it? He won't be getting my vote, no matter whether his party aligns with my preference or not.

Does that mean that he shouldn't be my MP, despite him getting three times more votes than any of his rivals? Unfortunately, no.

[anonymous-user]

TooMany2cvs said:

jsf said:

TooMany2cvs said:

Well, yes.

You know - the government YOU vote for, and the MEPs YOU vote for...

So who would you rather decided, if not elected representatives? The owners of newspapers? Or just you?

I wrote to one of my regional MEP's last week following her vote to abstain from allowing the negotiations to be expanded to trade. So far I have not received any response.

I wrote to my MP a while back - and didn't even get a standard acknowledgement. st, isn't it? He won't be getting my vote, no matter whether his party aligns with my preference or not.

Does that mean that he shouldn't be my MP, despite him getting three times more votes than any of his rivals? Unfortunately, no.

A sod off you cretin, you've just cost me my job, would have been Ok for me. No response at all is pretty rude.

[Billy_Whizzzz]

Wait - you're asking 'should we be 'getting behind Brexit'...? Hang on, you Brexiteers have stripped thinking people of their citizenship and their rights to live, work and study in 27 other countries as well as hindering our own institutions from benefiting from the cross fertilisation of ideas and research funding and you are destroying our cultural diversity. You have sent us on a road backwards, as you bring up our drawbridges, taking flight from the world. You presume to think that 'we' have something in common because of some quirk of fate meaning we had the misfortune to be born on the same little island and you suggest that 'we' get behind your pathetic little wheeze to destroy the UK and buy British? No thanks, I'll buy what's best and that sure as hell aint British.

[anonymous-user]

Last time I looked the world wasn't found inside the protectionist EU. Most of it is outside, the highest economic growth is outside, the best universities (excluding the UK as we are currently in the EU) are outside. If you are into youth unemployment, the EU is a world leader though.