Should we be getting behind Brexit by boycotting German cars
Discussion
Ahonen said:
jl34 said:
Killboy said:
I think I'm going to buy a German car. Time to trade in the Vauxhall.
A Vauxhall is a German car (opel)To make that short, Killboy's Astra was likely assembled in Ellesmere Port, and the OP's Insignia in Rüsselsheim.
Prof Prolapse said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
In 1975 there was no way the people of the UK were even going to understand what being in an EU would mean, let alone make an informed vote on the matter...
Same as in 2016 then?It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
Pan Pan Pan said:
Not really, In 2016 the people of the UK had multiple TV news channels, Multiple news papers, the internet, and over 40 years of actual experience of what being in an EU meant for the UK and its people on which to base their vote, In 1975 there were only 4 TV channels, a few tabloid / /broadsheet news papers, and no internet.
It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
On both occasions there was a concerted government effort to persuade the people to vote remain. In 1975 people still largely trusted government, by 2016, most were much wiser towards establishment motivations, as well as having the benefit of hindsight.It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
Bodo said:
Ahonen said:
jl34 said:
Killboy said:
I think I'm going to buy a German car. Time to trade in the Vauxhall.
A Vauxhall is a German car (opel)To make that short, Killboy's Astra was likely assembled in Ellesmere Port, and the OP's Insignia in Rüsselsheim.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Prof Prolapse said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
In 1975 there was no way the people of the UK were even going to understand what being in an EU would mean, let alone make an informed vote on the matter...
Same as in 2016 then?It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
"More informed than in 1975", does not mean, "sufficiently informed".
That having been said, I accept the outcome of the vote, so no need for to endlessly rehash old arguments or fall out over it. So the question goes back to how do benefit from our situation, as I have no doubt there are opportunities out there.
Back on topic, "boycotting" of any product on the described basis, strikes me as the market forces equivalent of a child holding their breath until they turn blue, and I believe will result in the same amount of respect from the international stage.
Pan Pan Pan said:
Not really, In 2016 the people of the UK had multiple TV news channels, Multiple news papers, the internet, and over 40 years of actual experience of what being in an EU meant for the UK and its people on which to base their vote, In 1975 there were only 4 TV channels, a few tabloid / /broadsheet news papers, and no internet.
It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
Yeah, look at how well informed people are about vaccinations. It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
Prof Prolapse said:
"More informed than in 1975", does not mean, "sufficiently informed".
I would also draw a distinction between "more available information" and "more informed." Just because more information is available doesn't mean that voters are ingesting it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, in terms of actually understanding the roles, function and structure of European institutions, the average voter in 1975 knew a great deal more than the average voter in 2016. Some of that is to do with the decades of added complexity within the institution, but wilful ignorance also plays a significant part.
Killboy said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Not really, In 2016 the people of the UK had multiple TV news channels, Multiple news papers, the internet, and over 40 years of actual experience of what being in an EU meant for the UK and its people on which to base their vote, In 1975 there were only 4 TV channels, a few tabloid / /broadsheet news papers, and no internet.
It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
Yeah, look at how well informed people are about vaccinations. It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
Pan Pan Pan said:
So are you saying that no matter how informed, or under informed the people are, they will always make more or less the same sort of decision, and consequently there is no point in informing them on any matters?
Well when the some, when armed with all this media believes;1. Boycotting German cars would be a thing
2. We actually really are saving £350M per week
I can't see the point of any more information
HM-2 said:
Prof Prolapse said:
"More informed than in 1975", does not mean, "sufficiently informed".
I would also draw a distinction between "more available information" and "more informed." Just because more information is available doesn't mean that voters are ingesting it. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, in terms of actually understanding the roles, function and structure of European institutions, the average voter in 1975 knew a great deal more than the average voter in 2016. Some of that is to do with the decades of added complexity within the institution, but wilful ignorance also plays a significant part.
ddom said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
So are you saying that no matter how informed, or under informed the people are, they will always make more or less the same sort of decision, and consequently there is no point in informing them on any matters?
Well when the some, when armed with all this media believes;1. Boycotting German cars would be a thing
2. We actually really are saving £350M per week
I can't see the point of any more information
Pan Pan Pan said:
That would be your opinion, like other`s opinions including mine, it would not necessarily be correct.
Levels of political engagement across the board in 1975 were far higher than they are in 2016. Sadly there's not a great deal of data around political knowledge specifically, though. Pan Pan Pan said:
Not really, In 2016 the people of the UK had multiple TV news channels, Multiple news papers, the internet, and over 40 years of actual experience of what being in an EU meant for the UK and its people on which to base their vote, In 1975 there were only 4 TV channels, a few tabloid / /broadsheet news papers, and no internet.
It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
Of course, what we actually had in 2016 was multiple routes for certain less scrupulous campaign organizations to spread their lies more easily. This certainly did not equate to a better informed electorate. Need I remind everyone of the roles played by Cambridge Analytica and Aggregate IQ??It would seem the information available in 2016, on which to base a vote, on either remaining or leaving the EU was vastly greater, than what was available to the public in 1975. making the 2016 vote vastly more informed, accurate and reliable than the one in 1975
ddom said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
So are you saying that no matter how informed, or under informed the people are, they will always make more or less the same sort of decision, and consequently there is no point in informing them on any matters?
Well when the some, when armed with all this media believes;1. Boycotting German cars would be a thing
2. We actually really are saving £350M per week
I can't see the point of any more information
I was going to buy a Bosch dishwasher but saw this thread and decided I would just get the kids to do it instead. Now who's the winner?!
HM-2 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
That would be your opinion, like other`s opinions including mine, it would not necessarily be correct.
Levels of political engagement across the board in 1975 were far higher than they are in 2016. Sadly there's not a great deal of data around political knowledge specifically, though. As has been pointed out by others, people were far more trusting of governments back then, than the very cynical view that most people take of government actions these days. Not least with watching almost continuous TV screening of business in the HoC, and Ho:L, and not forgetting the various court actions brought by individuals against government policy. Something that would only rarely, if ever have taken place in 1975. But as you pointed out posted before, we have our opinions, with not much if anything, to prove which are the most accurate.
Pan Pan Pan said:
I regret I cannot agree, because to me it seems people are far more engaged with politics now than they ever were in 1975.
In 1975 most voters knew not only who their local MP was, but their specific views on a variety of subjects. 78% of current voters can't even name their local MP. The same is true of members of the cabinet; we might be bombarded with coverage of parliament on a routine basis but it hasn't resulted in the general public having more understanding of who leads which cabinet department and what their remit is. HM-2 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
I regret I cannot agree, because to me it seems people are far more engaged with politics now than they ever were in 1975.
In 1975 most voters knew not only who their local MP was, but their specific views on a variety of subjects. 78% of current voters can't even name their local MP. The same is true of members of the cabinet; we might be bombarded with coverage of parliament on a routine basis but it hasn't resulted in the general public having more understanding of who leads which cabinet department and what their remit is. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff