RE: New GTS model for Porsche 718

[Cotic]

Ares said:

All this says that there is nothing that can compete with a 718 GTS, as the only options are used cars (and for £60k I'd go for a 991 S or V8 Vantage - talk about proper engines )

A new F-Type is less that £60k, with a proper engine, that makes the right noises. I'm sure there's plenty of arguments about weight, handling balance, interior quality, depreciation etc; but this is where my £60k would go.

[sidesauce]

Ares said:

nickfrog said:

I actually find the 4-pot power delivery made the chassis shine even brighter as the 6-pot was so user friendly it didn't actually challenge the chassis in the traction zones as much. It's not quite as good as the I6 overall and won't compete orally (is that a word ?) but the end result for me is just different, worse in some ways, better in others. It's still the default all rounder sports car for me, 4 or 6 cylinders.

I think you may be audibly, not orally.....unless you have a very unusual relationship with your cars


....but beyond that, you are spot on!

I think he meant 'aurally'.

Pistonheads - grammatical pedantry matters.

[nickfrog]

sidesauce said:

Ares said:

nickfrog said:

I actually find the 4-pot power delivery made the chassis shine even brighter as the 6-pot was so user friendly it didn't actually challenge the chassis in the traction zones as much. It's not quite as good as the I6 overall and won't compete orally (is that a word ?) but the end result for me is just different, worse in some ways, better in others. It's still the default all rounder sports car for me, 4 or 6 cylinders.

I think you may be audibly, not orally.....unless you have a very unusual relationship with your cars


....but beyond that, you are spot on!

I think he meant 'aurally'.

Pistonheads - grammatical pedantry matters.

Yes that's the one! I am like Manuel, I learnt it from a book ! Cheers !

[Jam12321]

Ares said:

What would you have instead?

Would love to say one of the more track focussed offerings but its just not reasonable with the regular journeys into Europe with the wife. It would likely be a 981.

Pushing on only occurs when the wife is not in the car so for me personally the sound of the engine is one of the most important parts of the experience - the downside of the 981 being the long gear ratios so i can't just keep winding out the gears to enjoy the noise as i'll spend all my time in second.

Realistically for me the ideal would have a long rev range, a soulful engine with shorter gear ratios so i can work the box while i have the wife in the car and i want it to feel more special. the problem being i want it to handle like a Boxster/Cayman so when she is not there i can really enjoy it.

I find the lack of choice really frustrating - 60K for a turbo 4...

Edited by Jam12321 on Thursday 19th October 10:25

[Cotic]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I thought that the only reason for fitting a downsized turbo 4 was to lower emissions on the NEDC test. Ironic if that test is now being binned, and all they've done is alienate those enthusiasts that buy the things in the first place. I'd love a Cayman, but not a 2.0 4 that sounds like this one does.

[tedblog]

I do love these conversations you can get a golf etc etc, its a Porsche we can all get cheaper cars etc etc , the Cayenne and the Toureg have the same platform same engine, one is 90k the other is a top model is 50K discounted to 37K , there is a waiting list for the Cayenne and loads in stock of the Toureg, sort of says it all really?
The Boxster/Caymen is the least selling Porsche model now, they only shifted 9000 cars worldwide in 2015 whereas they shifted 30000 911's , they sell everything they make at vast profit they dont care if you say ill buy a Golf no matter how much you moan about cost etc.
Jaguar have released a 4 cylinder turbo in the F type and its set to become their best seller in their f type line up.Engines change, cars change thats what happens.

[nickfrog]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

True, even the 2.5 was on 255 IIRC, and that was 20 years ago.

But then again, Porsche quite rightly didn't trust your average driver with an "interactive" midship chassis, even then.

The big tyres do come handy on track though for obvious heat management reasons although not many track theirs I suppose.

[Dr Interceptor]

What I really don't understand with Porsche, and the 718 in particular, is why there is just the four cylinder engine option.

People have said that the F-Type now comes with a 4-cyl, it does, but you can also have a V6 or V8 if you so desire.

I can understand why Porsche want to offer a 4-cyl Boxster/Cayman, and there is clearly a market for it. But why not put a flat six in the Boxster S/Cayman S?

Z4 was available with 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines.
SLK is available with 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines, and there used to be a V8 AMG model.

They already have the engine/transmission...

[Dr Interceptor]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I just wonder how many cars they'd have to sell to deem it worthwhile.

In Europe in 2016 Jaguar sold around 4300 F-Types, Porsche sold 4600 Boxsters and just over 3000 Caymans. That's just EU figures, not America etc.

I mean they do know they make sports cars, right?

[GroundEffect]

Dr Interceptor said:

What I really don't understand with Porsche, and the 718 in particular, is why there is just the four cylinder engine option.

People have said that the F-Type now comes with a 4-cyl, it does, but you can also have a V6 or V8 if you so desire.

I can understand why Porsche want to offer a 4-cyl Boxster/Cayman, and there is clearly a market for it. But why not put a flat six in the Boxster S/Cayman S?

Z4 was available with 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines.
SLK is available with 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines, and there used to be a V8 AMG model.

They already have the engine/transmission...

Differentiation on the market. I'm guessing Porsche marketing were seeing Boxster/Cayman sales cannibalising some 911 sales as they've slowly crept up in performance/capability vs the 911 so they wanted to make the gap wider by making the "nice proper engine" a 911 thing. Unfortunate for the customer, but good for the company's bottom line.

[Ares]

Cotic said:

Ares said:

All this says that there is nothing that can compete with a 718 GTS, as the only options are used cars (and for £60k I'd go for a 991 S or V8 Vantage - talk about proper engines )

A new F-Type is less that £60k, with a proper engine, that makes the right noises. I'm sure there's plenty of arguments about weight, handling balance, interior quality, depreciation etc; but this is where my £60k would go.

At last, an alternative. But with less power, more weight and worse balance, the only thing the Jag has going for it is it's two extra cylinders.

[CooperS]

GroundEffect said:

Dr Interceptor said:

What I really don't understand with Porsche, and the 718 in particular, is why there is just the four cylinder engine option.

People have said that the F-Type now comes with a 4-cyl, it does, but you can also have a V6 or V8 if you so desire.

I can understand why Porsche want to offer a 4-cyl Boxster/Cayman, and there is clearly a market for it. But why not put a flat six in the Boxster S/Cayman S?

Z4 was available with 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines.
SLK is available with 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder engines, and there used to be a V8 AMG model.

They already have the engine/transmission...

Differentiation on the market. I'm guessing Porsche marketing were seeing Boxster/Cayman sales cannibalising some 911 sales as they've slowly crept up in performance/capability vs the 911 so they wanted to make the gap wider by making the "nice proper engine" a 911 thing. Unfortunate for the customer, but good for the company's bottom line.

Exactly right. Plus people are still falling over themselves to buy these...

[tedblog]

[redacted]

[tedblog]

GroundEffect said:

Differentiation on the market. I'm guessing Porsche marketing were seeing Boxster/Cayman sales cannibalising some 911 sales as they've slowly crept up in performance/capability vs the 911 so they wanted to make the gap wider by making the "nice proper engine" a 911 thing. Unfortunate for the customer, but good for the company's bottom line.

A number of reasons , space and the other marques want to spread themselves across the age and cost ability range. because they also need to sell many more cars than Porsche do.