Is PCP a good idea or should I invest my money better?

[TimmyMallett]

Richard-390a0 said:

& if you can combine it with wearing a shirt with a ridiculously oversized polo player on horseback that'll really show them you're a man of means!!

Pff. Man of means? Man of TODAY, that's where it's at. Man of means is so 2016.

[HumanDoing]

nickfrog said:

This is probably the 10th time you mention soiled nappies in a very short amount of time. Have you considered what that says about you ?

I appreciate you have been a carer and that it has probably delayed your financial success in life which in turn explains your anger, but you should be proud rather than bitter.

Why should I own our family car if not owning it has effectively saved me 25% of the depreciation vs discounted cash price ? (happy to provide the MI, it's on the other thread).

It's not like anyone is impressed at the traffic lights, although this seems a crucial criteria for you. So maybe the key reason is because some schizophrenic PH member has decreed that I couldn't afford it ? Well indeed, I can't afford all the depreciation as I'd rather put spare cash in 40% uplifting pension and consumables for track days. Each to their own.

I don't know if you've noticed Frog but it's clearly a joke thread so perhaps over the top joke responses are permitted. However it is interesting that you only countenance debate over buying new vs pcp in order to 'win' - how about buying used? Then you can have even more money to put in your pension (in between veering between patronising faux-sympathy for me that I didn't ask for and telling me that if I don't worship the Focus RS then I mustve met my wife on the undateables, of course).

[SWoll]

HumanDoing said:

nickfrog said:

This is probably the 10th time you mention soiled nappies in a very short amount of time. Have you considered what that says about you ?

I appreciate you have been a carer and that it has probably delayed your financial success in life which in turn explains your anger, but you should be proud rather than bitter.

Why should I own our family car if not owning it has effectively saved me 25% of the depreciation vs discounted cash price ? (happy to provide the MI, it's on the other thread).

It's not like anyone is impressed at the traffic lights, although this seems a crucial criteria for you. So maybe the key reason is because some schizophrenic PH member has decreed that I couldn't afford it ? Well indeed, I can't afford all the depreciation as I'd rather put spare cash in 40% uplifting pension and consumables for track days. Each to their own.

I don't know if you've noticed Frog but it's clearly a joke thread so perhaps over the top joke responses are permitted. However it is interesting that you only countenance debate over buying new vs pcp in order to 'win' - how about buying used? Then you can have even more money to put in your pension (in between veering between patronising faux-sympathy for me that I didn't ask for and telling me that if I don't worship the Focus RS then I mustve met my wife on the undateables, of course).

You do understand how satire works yes?

I ask as all you've done is posted exactly the same rubbish in here as every other thread on the subject you visit only with a bit of additional resentment added for good measure?

[Blown2CV]

why do i keep hearing on a car enthusiasts website that buying a car is an investment? In all likelihood if you're PCPing a car you probably don't have money to invest anyway? Unless you really are some kind of mega deal-hunter and are financing because it is somehow cheaper than cash, but they don't really exist on PCP any more anyway - leasing for this.

[lee_fr200]

Blown2CV said:

why do i keep hearing on a car enthusiasts website that buying a car is an investment? In all likelihood if you're PCPing a car you probably don't have money to invest anyway? Unless you really are some kind of mega deal-hunter and are financing because it is somehow cheaper than cash, but they don't really exist on PCP any more anyway - leasing for this.

You may be wrong there I have a few very wealthy friends that pcp cars or just lease in general! They won't sink actual hard cash into a car, their motto is spend cash on appreciating assets and lease/rent depreciating assets! Plus on lease or pcp it's easy to put through a business so it doesn't actually cost you anything a smart man will never actually part with his own hard cash! I put mine through my business and it all gets written off like that and lowers the tax bill etc etc why the hell would I ever sink my own earnt money into a car, I do however spend my cash on doing my house up

[Blown2CV]

lee_fr200 said:

Blown2CV said:

why do i keep hearing on a car enthusiasts website that buying a car is an investment? In all likelihood if you're PCPing a car you probably don't have money to invest anyway? Unless you really are some kind of mega deal-hunter and are financing because it is somehow cheaper than cash, but they don't really exist on PCP any more anyway - leasing for this.

You may be wrong there I have a few very wealthy friends that pcp cars or just lease in general! They won't sink actual hard cash into a car, their motto is spend cash on appreciating assets and lease/rent depreciating assets! Plus on lease or pcp it's easy to put through a business so it doesn't actually cost you anything a smart man will never actually part with his own hard cash! I put mine through my business and it all gets written off like that and lowers the tax bill etc etc why the hell would I ever sink my own earnt money into a car, I do however spend my cash on doing my house up

you missed my point. Leasing is entirely an excellent way to run a car, and i can get why someone 'with money' would lease, providing they find the right deal. I have a leased S8 which I got last year, and it will cost £12k over 2 years. The depreciation is about £45k over that period. What I am saying is that PCPs are not leases and generally are not in any way cheap by comparison. Even if you manage to somehow get a stonking deal on a PCP and can sell it privately at the end and take equity, it still isn't going to perform as well as investing the equivalent to the outlay. There is no point to a PCP these days if you compare to lease, and if you're looking to somehow get a return then look elsewhere regardless.

[nickfrog]

HumanDoing said:

nickfrog said:

This is probably the 10th time you mention soiled nappies in a very short amount of time. Have you considered what that says about you ?

I appreciate you have been a carer and that it has probably delayed your financial success in life which in turn explains your anger, but you should be proud rather than bitter.

Why should I own our family car if not owning it has effectively saved me 25% of the depreciation vs discounted cash price ? (happy to provide the MI, it's on the other thread).

It's not like anyone is impressed at the traffic lights, although this seems a crucial criteria for you. So maybe the key reason is because some schizophrenic PH member has decreed that I couldn't afford it ? Well indeed, I can't afford all the depreciation as I'd rather put spare cash in 40% uplifting pension and consumables for track days. Each to their own.

I don't know if you've noticed Frog but it's clearly a joke thread so perhaps over the top joke responses are permitted. However it is interesting that you only countenance debate over buying new vs pcp in order to 'win' - how about buying used? Then you can have even more money to put in your pension (in between veering between patronising faux-sympathy for me that I didn't ask for and telling me that if I don't worship the Focus RS then I mustve met my wife on the undateables, of course).

I insist on a manufacturers warranty, hence buying new. However I could buy second hand at 1 or 2 years old but that would cost the same (I will dig out the MI for you as I shared it once) particularly if you add the (inferior) insurance based warranty beyond the 3rd year. As soon as lease proves more expensive than cash though, I will switch to cash.

As for you guys meeting on the undateables, ask yourself why I think that. It's clearly on a joke thread too anyway.

Well done for not mentioning soiled nappies though. I note however that you have moved into straw man argument territory now.

BTW, you can call me Nick.

ETA : this is the thought process copied from an earlier thread comparing new leased to second hand Tiguan cash. The figures are a bit obsolete and actually compound the conclusion as our car has lost £8k since new vs £5.2k total lease cost (some PH members have actually paid as little as £4k for this deal, I got there late sadly).

I would expect a 2 year old Tiguan 2.0 TDI to drop £150/month on average for the next 4 years. But let’s call it £125.
Warranty at £1,250/48 = £26/month
3 MOTS = £3/month
Tax @£145 = £12/month
Servicing @£250+£175 = £9 /month
Tyres and brakes over 4 years £500 = £10/month
Opportunity cost @3% on say, £12k (the rate on my BTL mortgage) = £1,584 but a bit less as the lease also has a small opp cost so say £1,200 ie £25/month
Oh look, we optimistically get to £210/month total – I am paying £216 amortised for a high spec Math Edition 150 TDI taxed and serviced.
The cheapest 140 TDI is up for £12,995 and is a S
So, what does the £6 / month saving buy you ?
- A used car that has been farted in and will be 6 years old.
- A car that has no big screen satnav, no climate, no cruise, flat cloth seats, no front sensors etc etc
- A car that will require a few maintenance trips (brakes, tyres, servicing, MOTs)
- A car with a lesser warranty. If you do a quick gap analysis you’ll see that quite a few things are excluded from the insurance backed VW extended warranty. They happen to be things that tend to manifest themselves after 3/4 years like pressed in bushings.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 21st October 12:08

[Blown2CV]

i don't see much point being so pernickety down to the pence about the small costs and then just rounding off the far larger depreciation figure to whatever you fancy... did you actually use any data to inform the depreciation figure on the Tiguan?

[nickfrog]

Blown2CV said:

i don't see much point being so pernickety down to the pence about the small costs and then just rounding off the far larger depreciation figure to whatever you fancy... did you actually use any data to inform the depreciation figure on the Tiguan?

So no point in being accurate yet you want more accuracy ?

It wasn't down to the pence, was it ?

No problem anyway. Car listed at £26,450 with paint. I could have bought it new when we took the lease at 16% off, so £22,200. Please note the cheapest pre-reg then was £23k.

The cheapest Match Tech Edition 150 TDI I can find today is £15,000. So probably £13,500 trade. WBAC say £13,000. I could have saved by selling privately and get £14k, maybe. That's £8k depreciation vs £5,200 total lease cost. It doesn't always work btw, but bear in mind that some people here have paid less than £4.5k for that lease deal.

Recent second hand vs new would have been closer though, but too close to not go new leased, if you insist on a half-decent warranty.

I didn't round anything off to whatever I fancied, I purposely took a pessimistic view by "rounding" it down to £125/month on the second hand car which is 10% per annum on a 2-year old Tiguan. Which it may or may not achieve.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 21st October 13:51

[Blown2CV]

nickfrog said:

Blown2CV said:

i don't see much point being so pernickety down to the pence about the small costs and then just rounding off the far larger depreciation figure to whatever you fancy... did you actually use any data to inform the depreciation figure on the Tiguan?

So no point in being accurate yet you want more accuracy ?

It wasn't down to the pence, was it ?

No problem anyway. Car listed at £26,450 with paint. I could have bought it new when we took the lease at 16% off, so £22,200. Please note the cheapest pre-reg then was £23k.

The cheapest Match Tech Edition 150 TDI I can find today is £15,000. So probably £13,500 trade. WBAC say £13,000. I could have saved by selling privately and get £14k, maybe. That's £8k depreciation vs £5,200 total lease cost. It doesn't always work btw, but bear in mind that some people here have paid less than £4.5k for that lease deal.

Recent second hand vs new would have been closer though, but too close to not go new leased, if you insist on a half-decent warranty.

I didn't round anything off to whatever I fancied, I purposely took a pessimistic view by "rounding" it down to £125/month on the second hand car which is 10% per annum on a 2-year old Tiguan. Which it may or may not achieve.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 21st October 13:51

i was saying there is no point in being super accurate about small figures when you were apparently just throwing around numbers for the far larger depreciation amount. Being pessimistic would mean rounding depreciation up, not down?

[nickfrog]

Blown2CV said:

i was saying there is no point in being super accurate about small figures when you were apparently just throwing around numbers for the far larger depreciation amount. Being pessimistic would mean rounding depreciation up, not down?

No. Rounding depreciation down to £125/month on a 2-year old Tiguan for years 2 to 6 helps make the case for the second hand car vs new leased. Which still wasn't enough to make any financial sense. I think it'd be closer to £150 btw based on market observation.

I haven't thrown any numbers around I don't think. I am purposely being more than unbiased to bolster the case for the second hand car.

[HumanDoing]

nickfrog said:

I insist on a manufacturers warranty, hence buying new. However I could buy second hand at 1 or 2 years old but that would cost the same (I will dig out the MI for you as I shared it once) particularly if you add the (inferior) insurance based warranty beyond the 3rd year. As soon as lease proves more expensive than cash though, I will switch to cash.

As for you guys meeting on the undateables, ask yourself why I think that. It's clearly on a joke thread too anyway.

Well done for not mentioning soiled nappies though. I note however that you have moved into straw man argument territory now.

BTW, you can call me Nick.

ETA : this is the thought process copied from an earlier thread comparing new leased to second hand Tiguan cash. The figures are a bit obsolete and actually compound the conclusion as our car has lost £8k since new vs £5.2k total lease cost (some PH members have actually paid as little as £4k for this deal, I got there late sadly).

I would expect a 2 year old Tiguan 2.0 TDI to drop £150/month on average for the next 4 years. But let’s call it £125.
Warranty at £1,250/48 = £26/month
3 MOTS = £3/month
Tax @£145 = £12/month
Servicing @£250+£175 = £9 /month
Tyres and brakes over 4 years £500 = £10/month
Opportunity cost @3% on say, £12k (the rate on my BTL mortgage) = £1,584 but a bit less as the lease also has a small opp cost so say £1,200 ie £25/month
Oh look, we optimistically get to £210/month total – I am paying £216 amortised for a high spec Math Edition 150 TDI taxed and serviced.
The cheapest 140 TDI is up for £12,995 and is a S
So, what does the £6 / month saving buy you ?
- A used car that has been farted in and will be 6 years old.
- A car that has no big screen satnav, no climate, no cruise, flat cloth seats, no front sensors etc etc
- A car that will require a few maintenance trips (brakes, tyres, servicing, MOTs)
- A car with a lesser warranty. If you do a quick gap analysis you’ll see that quite a few things are excluded from the insurance backed VW extended warranty. They happen to be things that tend to manifest themselves after 3/4 years like pressed in bushings.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 21st October 12:08

Nobody has any evidence that a brand new car has not been farted in so that's a rather bizarre criterion to include. You don't know what happened between the car rolling off the production line and you taking receipt of it.

[daemon]

HumanDoing said:

Nobody has any evidence that a brand new car has not been farted in so that's a rather bizarre criterion to include. You don't know what happened between the car rolling off the production line and you taking receipt of it.

• sigh*

You know you're really losing an argument on the internet when you're down to using "a new car might have been farted in too" as your retort.

Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 October 21:19

[HumanDoing]

daemon said:

• sigh*

You know you're really losing an argument on the internet when you're down to using "a new car might have been farted in too" as your retort.

Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 October 21:19

If you don't like what I post, don't read it, don't respond, don't engage. Nobody is forcing you too and I assure you I can go on with my life without your learned advice and guidance.

[daemon]

HumanDoing said:

daemon said:

• sigh*

You know you're really losing an argument on the internet when you're down to using "a new car might have been farted in too" as your retort.

Edited by daemon on Sunday 22 October 21:19

If you don't like what I post, don't read it, don't respond, don't engage. Nobody is forcing you too and I assure you I can go on with my life without your learned advice and guidance.

Its like shooting fish in a barrel frankly.

[HumanDoing]

daemon said:

Its like shooting fish in a barrel frankly.

What is, bullying someone for daring to express an opinion? Find someone else to take for a , I'm done responding to you. I hope you feel great about yourself, a grown man bullying someone on the internet great well done. Do you have no other way of feeling 'good' about yourself?

[daemon]

HumanDoing said:

daemon said:

Its like shooting fish in a barrel frankly.

What is, bullying someone for daring to express an opinion? Find someone else to take for a , I'm done responding to you. I hope you feel great about yourself, a grown man bullying someone on the internet great well done. Do you have no other way of feeling 'good' about yourself?

You've a lot to learn about forum threads. You put out a strong aggressive view on a known inflammatory subject then got challenged on it by various people.

Not one st do i give how other people finance their cars. You however seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder.

[nickfrog]

HumanDoing said:

Nobody has any evidence that a brand new car has not been farted in so that's a rather bizarre criterion to include. You don't know what happened between the car rolling off the production line and you taking receipt of it.

You used the word bizarre ?

I would have thought that kind of concern was right up your street.

The car had 15 miles on the clock when we got it. It will have 15,000 miles when we give it back after 2 years. So, as demonstrated earlier, the choice is either:

1 - "new" car that has cost £5,200 and might have been farted in for 15 miles (how much farting can you do in 15 miles ?). And besides, it came with the factory blue polypropylene (those pesky Germans don't like PVC) seat protectors on anyway although they might have been removed for the farting exercise. I can totally see how those guys at Autologistics have no pressure whatsoever on deadlines and are allowed to spend as long as they want to personalise the upholstery of the cars they drive. It's also possible that my local dealer has plenty of spare time to add his own aroma.

2 - 2 year-old car that will cost the same (optimistically) but will have been farted in at least 1,000 times more, depending on mileage and depending on the inherent digestive and aerofagic output of the previous owner(s).

I have no issues if you prefer 2 so I hope you can understand if I prefer 1.

ps : I have really tried hard to sound like you and I hope you appreciate the effort

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 24th October 01:39

[HumanDoing]

nickfrog said:

You used the word bizarre ?

I would have thought that kind of concern was right up your street.

The car had 15 miles on the clock when we got it. It will have 15,000 miles when we give it back after 2 years. So, as demonstrated earlier, the choice is:

ps : I have really tried hard to sound like you and I hope you appreciate the effort

Edited by nickfrog on Tuesday 24th October 01:39

Well you're making sense for once so maybe try that more often Frog?

Enough negativity, I won't be responding to your posts any longer, you're not good for mental health (lol yes I'm crazy ho ho ho good joke frog ive saved you the time) Find someone else to gang up on and take for a .

[lewishollings]

Stick Legs said:

Is PCP a good idea or should I spend my money on other things.
Are investments a better way to go and drive a car I can actually afford rather than being a moronic sheep and driving a car beyond my means just to impress my neighbours.

Really interested in other peoples opinion about how I plan to spend my money.

Thanks!

I know this is a troll post, a really poor effort by the way! But I think you misunderstand the point in general, PCP helps me afford a car I may not be able to otherwise, I get to chop in every 2-3 years and I "own", very loose sense of the word, a car that I will actually enjoy.

It works for me but I understand it doesn't work for everyone which is absolutely fine, a Fiesta ST isn't going to impress the neighbours anyway.