Reducing Congestion - how would you do it?
Discussion
It has to be improving public transport. I live 45mins train ride from Edinburgh, but all too often every morning on the travel news all you hear are delays and even cancellations. How are you supposed to plan getting to work with an unreliable service? I'm lucky that I work locally, and don't have to rely on getting to a big city or town every day.
Park and Ride has to be improved. Lets people drive their own car to a certain point, get on bus into city centre. It has to be cheap, free and have plenty buses. No hanging about for 10minutes waiting on the next bus. Or maybe in the future you transfer to a driverless electric vehicle for the last part of the journey instead of a bus. I know alot of cities have park and ride, but I never think of them as being well publicised or used.
Bus only roads. Plenty of places have introduced trams at great expense. Trams for part of the way usually have their own segregated sections away from the roads. Surely it would be cheaper to use the same principle but use buses instead. No cost to install overhead wires or rails, just tarmac sections of segregated road that buses can drive on. If there are any disused railways left, they could be utilised for this purpose. Or could it be possible for places that already have trams, to have their track areas adapted so buses could also use them?
Why are cable car systems not more of a thing in towns or cities? I think new urban cable cars have been introduced in Brazil to great success. Instead of being part of the traffic, you are above it all.
Park and Ride has to be improved. Lets people drive their own car to a certain point, get on bus into city centre. It has to be cheap, free and have plenty buses. No hanging about for 10minutes waiting on the next bus. Or maybe in the future you transfer to a driverless electric vehicle for the last part of the journey instead of a bus. I know alot of cities have park and ride, but I never think of them as being well publicised or used.
Bus only roads. Plenty of places have introduced trams at great expense. Trams for part of the way usually have their own segregated sections away from the roads. Surely it would be cheaper to use the same principle but use buses instead. No cost to install overhead wires or rails, just tarmac sections of segregated road that buses can drive on. If there are any disused railways left, they could be utilised for this purpose. Or could it be possible for places that already have trams, to have their track areas adapted so buses could also use them?
Why are cable car systems not more of a thing in towns or cities? I think new urban cable cars have been introduced in Brazil to great success. Instead of being part of the traffic, you are above it all.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
1. Good luck with that. Housing is unaffordable in and near cities for anyone other than senior managers and above. Also, the majority of company owners seem to masturbate furiously over the prospect of basing their business in the nearest trendy city, or better still, London, so good luck trying to get them to move to the area inhabited by their workforce... and even if they did, house prices would just go up there pricing out anyone who didn't already own a place there.2. This, wherever possible.
I really don't understand why it cost so much to move containerised goods by rail.
I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
"help, my bath drain is blocked and I've got the taps running full blast. It's starting to fill up and it will overflow at some point, what should I do?"me: "turning the taps down would be a sensible thing to do right now"
you: "no no don't do that - that won't help empty the water"
Jazzy Jag said:
I really don't understand why it cost so much to move containerised goods by rail.
I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
OK then, trucks are removed from the roads....so that's congestion solved then!!I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
Jazzy Jag said:
I really don't understand why it cost so much to move containerised goods by rail.
I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
It's not some much the cost but the time. At an export company I worked for, we tried using railfreight from Italy to Glasgow. Absolute disaster. Train breakdown in Italy, rail strike in France, then when our container did get to the UK, it then has to go to the freight yard outside Woolwich, wait a day for it to go on a train north. The train left late, and we were then told the driver couldn't finish the journey and had to clock off at Carlisle. That's then another day for them to allocate another driver. Then the train goes to the rail yard at Bellshill. And then you have to wait on everything being unloaded from the train before you can send a truck into collect. I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
Our customer was not amused that it took over 3 weeks to get their goods to them, when we could have hired 3 trailers and done the job in about 3 days.
In my current company I see the timescales that customers demand to get their goods. Some orders are particularly tight by road never mind going by rail. And if you don't deliver when they want, you get alot of grief from sales managers and then you lose the customers business. So many customers now don't hold stock. It is mainly "on time" deliveries. A failed delivey costs them in production, so the only realistic way is to go by road. Even when things do go wrong by road you have alot more control of how to rectify the situation than when your goods are sat in a railway siding somewhere.
Rail is only an option if you have alot of bulk goods to move and aren't in a particular hurry for them. But fewer factories work like that these days, they order later, but want every delivery now.
Edited by ch108 on Saturday 21st October 13:21
A proper survey of where the hell everyone is going and why would be a good starting point.
I see the odd Traffic Census from time to time but whether anyone ever joins these up into a complete regional picture is doubtful.
Especially when any answers would inevitably require money to be spent by central govt.
I wonder if people are grown up enough to accept 'ring fenced' taxation yet?
e.g 5p on income tax but it's all going to the NHS.
or 3p on a litre of fuel but it's all going on infrastructure improvement.
I see the odd Traffic Census from time to time but whether anyone ever joins these up into a complete regional picture is doubtful.
Especially when any answers would inevitably require money to be spent by central govt.
I wonder if people are grown up enough to accept 'ring fenced' taxation yet?
e.g 5p on income tax but it's all going to the NHS.
or 3p on a litre of fuel but it's all going on infrastructure improvement.
wisbech said:
Increase the tax on fuel by 10p every month until there is acceptable reduction in congestion- basically just price people off the roads
The peasants will revolt, if you are worried about having your car damaged now when parked up there will be nothing left of it when you do. Its one thing having a new technology that is only the preserve of the rich but taking it away from people wouldn't go down to well. It will be a regression in living standards of millions to benefit of the wealthy.
It's obvious, to reduce congestion you have to reduce the number of vehicles on the road.
Every vehicle has a driver, so reduce the number of drivers.
Every driver has a driving licence, cap and then reduce the total number of driving licences over a period of years.
Every person who wants a licence has to join the back of the queue for one ( and/or a driving test ).
Every person who gets banned serves their ban and THEN goes to the back of the queue.
This would I'm sure improve the standard of driving if you knew that if you got banned you would have to serve
your ban and then an unknown amount of time before you got your licence back.
Every vehicle has a driver, so reduce the number of drivers.
Every driver has a driving licence, cap and then reduce the total number of driving licences over a period of years.
Every person who wants a licence has to join the back of the queue for one ( and/or a driving test ).
Every person who gets banned serves their ban and THEN goes to the back of the queue.
This would I'm sure improve the standard of driving if you knew that if you got banned you would have to serve
your ban and then an unknown amount of time before you got your licence back.
lummox said:
It's obvious, to reduce congestion you have to reduce the number of vehicles on the road.
Every vehicle has a driver, so reduce the number of drivers.
Every driver has a driving licence, cap and then reduce the total number of driving licences over a period of years.
Every person who wants a licence has to join the back of the queue for one ( and/or a driving test ).
Every person who gets banned serves their ban and THEN goes to the back of the queue.
This would I'm sure improve the standard of driving if you knew that if you got banned you would have to serve
your ban and then an unknown amount of time before you got your licence back.
I would say that the driving test should be much harder. Every vehicle has a driver, so reduce the number of drivers.
Every driver has a driving licence, cap and then reduce the total number of driving licences over a period of years.
Every person who wants a licence has to join the back of the queue for one ( and/or a driving test ).
Every person who gets banned serves their ban and THEN goes to the back of the queue.
This would I'm sure improve the standard of driving if you knew that if you got banned you would have to serve
your ban and then an unknown amount of time before you got your licence back.
Your idea could have some large economic impacts. It would put a large premium on having a licence and could make it very hard for company's to fill certain jobs. You could have a situation where delivery's cant be done because they cant find people with licences to drive the trucks. because stay at home mums have them or retired people who hardly use their cars.
mp3manager said:
Jazzy Jag said:
I really don't understand why it cost so much to move containerised goods by rail.
I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
OK then, trucks are removed from the roads....so that's congestion solved then!!I was talking to a guy who managed a large car parts distribution center and I commented on the fact that the place had it's own railway siding and unloading facilities.
I was told that the cost of rail freight from Germany was far more than using individual trucks and drivers.
IMHO we should be looking at removing trucks from the roads and onto the railway with trucks running out of a number of distribution hubs.
More lanes, higher speeds, road pricing dopending on vehicle and time of day travelling so cheaper to operate trucks on a night but more expensive to operate cars on a night,
Better and cheaper public transport
(Before anyone slates me for higher speeds I think these smart motorways cause more problems than enough and cause congestion)
Better and cheaper public transport
(Before anyone slates me for higher speeds I think these smart motorways cause more problems than enough and cause congestion)
Just sensible road layouts could help a lot.
I live close to the new mersey gateway bridge. The new junction 12 roundabout is ridiculous.
First of all they kept part of it coned off for around 12 months after work on it had finished. This was done for no apparent reason and was coned off right up until the night the new bridge opened. This is despite the fact that this roundabout is over 2 miles away from the new bridge and primarily services the M56 and the old Jubilee bridge via the runcorn expressway.
When they finally removed the cones - they have only a single lane dedicated for traffic that is bound for the M56 towards Manchester.
The phasing of the lights also means that only a handfull of cars (less if there is an artic) can get though each phase because traffic coming off the M56 heading towards Liverpool blocks the roundabout up and the lights don't allow this traffic to clear before letting Manchester bound M56 traffic go.
Whoever designed this junction and the light phasing needs shooting.
I live close to the new mersey gateway bridge. The new junction 12 roundabout is ridiculous.
First of all they kept part of it coned off for around 12 months after work on it had finished. This was done for no apparent reason and was coned off right up until the night the new bridge opened. This is despite the fact that this roundabout is over 2 miles away from the new bridge and primarily services the M56 and the old Jubilee bridge via the runcorn expressway.
When they finally removed the cones - they have only a single lane dedicated for traffic that is bound for the M56 towards Manchester.
The phasing of the lights also means that only a handfull of cars (less if there is an artic) can get though each phase because traffic coming off the M56 heading towards Liverpool blocks the roundabout up and the lights don't allow this traffic to clear before letting Manchester bound M56 traffic go.
Whoever designed this junction and the light phasing needs shooting.
Slightly left field but I’d look at kei car regs or something similar to reduce the size of cars on the road.
Most cars on the road, especially on a commute are suited to carrying 4/5 people plus their luggage but are only used for carrying one person and a rucksack.
So encourage people into smaller cars, perhaps have rental/shared ownership schemes for larger ones and you’ve managed to fit a lot more cars into the same road space.
Im not sure it’s the best idea (or whether it would be workable at all!) but it could have an effect?
Most cars on the road, especially on a commute are suited to carrying 4/5 people plus their luggage but are only used for carrying one person and a rucksack.
So encourage people into smaller cars, perhaps have rental/shared ownership schemes for larger ones and you’ve managed to fit a lot more cars into the same road space.
Im not sure it’s the best idea (or whether it would be workable at all!) but it could have an effect?
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