Reducing Congestion - how would you do it?
Discussion
cookie118 said:
Slightly left field but I’d look at kei car regs or something similar to reduce the size of cars on the road.
Yes, I think that's sensible, someone mentioned it earlier, too. After all, congestion is exactly why the regs were introduced in Japan.(Some) kei cars are a right laugh, too.
Despite only living a mile or so from the edge of Norwich I would say public transport is the biggest issue for reducing congestion. My wife tries to use public transport but the bus service is shocking, not very regular although they manage to regularly cancel a bus without warning, stops at 7pm on a weekday so if you work late or want to do something in Norwich in the evening you'll have to drive. Sunday service is virtually non existent. You have no choice but to drive most of the time.
saknog said:
Words on the bottom say: combine trips, carpool, use mass transit, drive a smaller car, bicycle, walk. I will add motorbike/scooter.
Edited by saknog on Sunday 22 October 09:38
Just saw my neighbour get in his car and drive the quarter of a mile to the paper shop, the chap who lives next door to my mum and dad drives an even smaller distance to get a takeaway, this is a big part of the problem, the answer to every question has become "take the car" and a lot of the time, they are the answer, but equally, a lot of the time there is another, more suitable option.
Be interesting to see which of us, have in the last month,
Walked a decent distance instead of taking the car
Used public transport
Ridden a bicycle
I quite often walk, used the train to go for a pint with my brother and gone to work on my bike.
Also, sold my big Merc and am driving a tiny Citroen, though it is temporary it is a bit of a revelation, much more suitable for the mileage I do, so easy to park and seems to run on fresh air, only downside is its so slow out of town.
Make the driving test much, MUCH harder and limit the number of attempts which will have two benefits; it will (eventually) raise driving standards as only the better drivers will pass and those that don't will be forced onto public transport thus giving the much needed income to be able to increase and improve said transport. I've never understood allowing someone an unlimited number of attempts so they just have to get lucky on one of them. It's no wonder there are so many muppets out there.
That said, by the time all of that happens driverless tech will be upon us which will reduce congestion anyway by enabling cars to talk to each other thus compressing the space needed by each and also that pool cars will become quite a big thing as opposed to owning your own car.
Also, population control. The UK is a pretty small place and unless we want to end up with no countryside and living in some sort of Bladerunner-type urban nightmare then limiting the population is the only way to do it.
I hate people BTW.
That said, by the time all of that happens driverless tech will be upon us which will reduce congestion anyway by enabling cars to talk to each other thus compressing the space needed by each and also that pool cars will become quite a big thing as opposed to owning your own car.
Also, population control. The UK is a pretty small place and unless we want to end up with no countryside and living in some sort of Bladerunner-type urban nightmare then limiting the population is the only way to do it.
I hate people BTW.
Edited by Centurion07 on Sunday 22 October 10:21
Centurion07 said:
Make the driving test much, MUCH harder and limit the number of attempts which will have two benefits; it will (eventually) raise driving standards as only the better drivers will pass and those that don't will be forced onto public transport thus giving the much needed income to be able to increase and improve said transport. I've never understood allowing someone an unlimited number of attempts so they just have to get lucky on one of them. It's no wonder there are so many muppets out there.
That said, by the time all of that happens driverless tech will be upon us which will reduce congestion anyway by enabling cars to talk to each other thus compressing the space needed by each and also that pool cars will become quite a big thing as opposed to owning your own car.
Also, population control. The UK is a pretty small place and unless we want to end up with no countryside and living in some sort of Bladerunner-type urban nightmare then limiting the population is the only way to do it.
I hate people BTW.
So, you ready to re-take your much, much harder test ? or is it just for new drivers ?That said, by the time all of that happens driverless tech will be upon us which will reduce congestion anyway by enabling cars to talk to each other thus compressing the space needed by each and also that pool cars will become quite a big thing as opposed to owning your own car.
Also, population control. The UK is a pretty small place and unless we want to end up with no countryside and living in some sort of Bladerunner-type urban nightmare then limiting the population is the only way to do it.
I hate people BTW.
Edited by Centurion07 on Sunday 22 October 10:21
Another suggestion that doesnt involve any change to our own routines, apart from the roads being a bit quieter for us, all put onto other people.
1. More working from home
2. More staggered office hours
And thirdly, but more about the impact on people and society...
3. Resetting people's beliefs on what a sensible commute is (the increase in commute times this century is staggering - lots of people I know think a 90-120 minute commute each way is normal so they leave home before the kids are up and get home after they're asleep and spend thousands on fuel, depreciation and wear and tear. What's the point?!
2. More staggered office hours
And thirdly, but more about the impact on people and society...
3. Resetting people's beliefs on what a sensible commute is (the increase in commute times this century is staggering - lots of people I know think a 90-120 minute commute each way is normal so they leave home before the kids are up and get home after they're asleep and spend thousands on fuel, depreciation and wear and tear. What's the point?!
J4CKO said:
So, you ready to re-take your much, much harder test ? or is it just for new drivers ?
Another suggestion that doesnt involve any change to our own routines, apart from the roads being a bit quieter for us, all put onto other people.
More than happy to retake a much harder test FYI and if every driver was made to retake their test it would provide a huge number of jobs with new examiners needed. It could be watered down to just some sort of hazard perception test as making umpteen million drivers redo their practical might not be, well, practical.Another suggestion that doesnt involve any change to our own routines, apart from the roads being a bit quieter for us, all put onto other people.
Hitch said:
3. Resetting people's beliefs on what a sensible commute is (the increase in commute times this century is staggering - lots of people I know think a 90-120 minute commute each way is normal so they leave home before the kids are up and get home after they're asleep and spend thousands on fuel, depreciation and wear and tear. What's the point?!
That's all well and good - but what happens if your industry sector doesn't have a site close to where you live.When we moved back to the north west after living down south - we bought a house that was equidistant between our places of work. Unfortunately this still meant our commutes could be an hour or more in opposite directions.
The other option was to buy close to one of our places of work (which would have been inner city Manchester or North Wales) - but that would have meant a 2+ hour commute for the other person, plus we would have had to travel to see family.
It's easy to suggest "live closer to where you work" - but moving house is bloody expensive, and is made all the worse by stamp duty envy tax. It also ignores the fact that if both people in the relationship work - it may be impossible to get jobs where both locations are close by.
To top it all off - many companies have been closing smaller satellite sites and consolidating their operations. This makes it even harder to get a 'local' job.
Edited by Moonhawk on Sunday 22 October 11:53
J4CKO said:
Be interesting to see which of us, have in the last month,
Walked a decent distance instead of taking the car
Used public transport
Ridden a bicycle
I quite often walk, used the train to go for a pint with my brother and gone to work on my bike.
The only facilities within walking distance of my home are a pub (we used to have two - but one closed), a local shop which only opened relatively recently and a train station.Walked a decent distance instead of taking the car
Used public transport
Ridden a bicycle
I quite often walk, used the train to go for a pint with my brother and gone to work on my bike.
We use the train when going shopping or drinking in Chester/Liverpool - but services are relatively infrequent and stop quite early (for example - the last train tonight is 9pm). It's also quite a slow train - so although it's on the Manchester line and would in theory allow us to commute into Manchester - travel times are around 1 hour 45 minutes, station to station. I looked at a job in Manchester a week or so back. To commute by public transport would take in excess of 2 hours each way and that is assuming all of the connections are made and there are no delays.
We don't have a bus service at all and our nearest bus stop is well over 2 miles away.
We used to have a couple of local branches of our bank within biking distance - but they closed years ago and consolidated into the larger town centre branches - the closest of which is now around ~10 miles away.
Edited by Moonhawk on Sunday 22 October 12:49
It does of course depend on where a person lives, but I used to jump in the car for even short trips, but I now walk everywhere if my destination is anywhere in my home town. It provides much needed exercise, it is mostly quite pleasant, regardless of the weather (if as Billy Connolly points out, there is no such thing as bad weather, as long as one is wearing appropriate clothing) No parking space to have to find and pay for, and even a reasonable amount of shopping can be carried, using a suitable back pack. I now only use the car for going to the shops if I have to buy a large number of heavy goods, i.e, lots of tinned stuff, potatoes, etc. Walking is also on balance a bit safer than cycling on todays crowded roads. I do cycle occasionally, but usually only for exercise, as finding some where safe to park the bike, and to some extent carrying goods on it, is a bit of a phaff. If more people did this, they could be healthier, and the roads would be a bit clearer for when people do want to drive. Lets not forget that for many on Piston heads, their car is not `just' for transport, but one of the reasons they get out of bed every morning 
J4CKO said:
saknog said:
Words on the bottom say: combine trips, carpool, use mass transit, drive a smaller car, bicycle, walk. I will add motorbike/scooter.
Edited by saknog on Sunday 22 October 09:38
Just saw my neighbour get in his car and drive the quarter of a mile to the paper shop, the chap who lives next door to my mum and dad drives an even smaller distance to get a takeaway, this is a big part of the problem, the answer to every question has become "take the car" and a lot of the time, they are the answer, but equally, a lot of the time there is another, more suitable option.
Be interesting to see which of us, have in the last month,
Walked a decent distance instead of taking the car
Used public transport
Ridden a bicycle
I quite often walk, used the train to go for a pint with my brother and gone to work on my bike.
Also, sold my big Merc and am driving a tiny Citroen, though it is temporary it is a bit of a revelation, much more suitable for the mileage I do, so easy to park and seems to run on fresh air, only downside is its so slow out of town.
So do I think a) being part of the problem, what can I do about it or b) its not my problem so someone else can resolve it for me
And yes I understand everyone has different circumstances why they can or cannot use alternative methods to move about, but is it easier to make an excuse than to be proactive in finding a solution.
Edited by saknog on Sunday 22 October 15:31
saknog said:
And yes I understand everyone has different circumstances why they can or cannot use alternative methods to move about, but is it easier to make an excuse than to be proactive in finding a solution.
The problem is - people have kinda been forced into using cars.Look at the rail network prior to the Beeching report. Much of the country accessible by train up until the mid 1960s - is no longer.
Public transport was denationalised and private firms find it unprofitable to run routes with low passenger numbers (interestingly privatisation did not happen in London - where most of our policy makers base themselves).
The building of and planning approval of massive out of town shopping/industrial estates with free parking has been going on for decades.
Decisions have been made which lead to the closure of local branches of various services from doctors, dentists, banks, post offices, petrol stations, pubs, cinemas, DIY stores etc.
Many larger businesses have closed local satellite sites in favour of consolidating into fewer larger sites. One company I worked for has closed at least 5 satellite sites in the south east of England in the last 10 years.
There has been a trend of building large commuter towns/housing estates with little or no public transport infrastructure and very few local amenities.
Decades of policy making by business leaders and politicians has all lead in one direction - the use of and reliance upon the car/road network.
1. Invest in a substantial road programme. Concentrate on pinch points.
2. Some kind of driving test every ten years for everyone. Instead of pricing people out of their cars, get the idiots off the road.
3. Reduce congestion rather than volume of traffic. I read somewhere back along that even though congestion is constantly increasing in our major cities, absolute traffic levels haven't gone up. The disconnect is due to things like re-timing of traffic lights and bus/cycle lanes, so even though there aren't more vehicles on the road it feels like there are.
2. Some kind of driving test every ten years for everyone. Instead of pricing people out of their cars, get the idiots off the road.
3. Reduce congestion rather than volume of traffic. I read somewhere back along that even though congestion is constantly increasing in our major cities, absolute traffic levels haven't gone up. The disconnect is due to things like re-timing of traffic lights and bus/cycle lanes, so even though there aren't more vehicles on the road it feels like there are.
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