Reducing Congestion - how would you do it?
Discussion
I'm lucky and work from home and have done for nearly 3 years now. I do go to our Office once every 2-3 months which is a 100 mile round trip up the M6 to Lancashire and every time I notice the traffic is worst than before. What's more, rush hour seems to start at before 7am and goes on well past 7pm. I went to the Office last week and came back via Decathlon in Stockport to pick something up. From Stockport to home is about 15 miles and it took me nearly 2 hours. I genuinely feel sorry for those who have to commute by car on a daily basis. If and when I am back to being one of those who needs to commute, I hope it is close enough for me to cycle or I'll be dusting off my motorbike gear.
I'd say people need to start living nearer to work
I live less than a mile from work, so only ever go in car if I need to be somewhere thats beyond walking/cycling distance straight after work
Even in Hull congestion isn't a recent thing ... 20 years ago when I lived further away from work (5 miles) I used to mainly cycle to work because it was quicker than coming in car.
I live less than a mile from work, so only ever go in car if I need to be somewhere thats beyond walking/cycling distance straight after work
Even in Hull congestion isn't a recent thing ... 20 years ago when I lived further away from work (5 miles) I used to mainly cycle to work because it was quicker than coming in car.
Not going to help with motorways, but local congestion would be greatly improved by enforcing parents to send kids to the local school. Not many people live more than a mile or two from a school, but while you allow people to cherry-pick where the kids go, the roads get crammed up as the kids "need" to be driven in.
Around my way, where the schools are all allegedly top performers, people come from far and wide and the roads are murder. My LA, Havering, recently enforced public space protection orders around most of the schools (so no parking or dropping off), forcing people to instead park in nearby roads which is just passing the problem down the road.
Take away the school run in big towns and cities and it must make everything run better, surely?
Around my way, where the schools are all allegedly top performers, people come from far and wide and the roads are murder. My LA, Havering, recently enforced public space protection orders around most of the schools (so no parking or dropping off), forcing people to instead park in nearby roads which is just passing the problem down the road.
Take away the school run in big towns and cities and it must make everything run better, surely?
J4CKO said:
Cyclists, really, ?
Ok, put all those folk on bikes into a car and see whether the situation improves, yes cyclists get in the way of car drivers sometimes but they take up far less road and parking spaces.
You cant get cyclists of the road to make it marginally easier for car drivers, those people still need to get to work or wherever else they are going, in London they generally wont be recreational cyclists, just those that dont want the grind of public transport or that know that a car is not a viable option in a densely populated city.
Imagine if everyone was on bikes and just you were in a car, I suspect there would be a lot less queuing for you. You can get six people on bikes in the space an average car takes, probably more as you dont need a lot of space around them, hence why places like India and Vietnam move a lot more people, they dont all feel the need or have the means for a premium SUV, they have a bike or a moped, smaller and more maneuverable, this is the crux of the issue.
In town and city centres, it is cars that are the problem but the whole debate seems to be, how can I make my journey, in my car more pleasant and quicker, never the thought you may be part of the problem and people using other modes of transport part of the answer.
I love cars and driving, they are great for moving people and stuff over long distances but utter crap in busy places, I see all the X5's, Ranger Rovers and
the like round here driving half a mile, there is the option, if able, to not use it, it is acceptable, I just walk or cycle, much less agro most of the time.
Well said.Ok, put all those folk on bikes into a car and see whether the situation improves, yes cyclists get in the way of car drivers sometimes but they take up far less road and parking spaces.
You cant get cyclists of the road to make it marginally easier for car drivers, those people still need to get to work or wherever else they are going, in London they generally wont be recreational cyclists, just those that dont want the grind of public transport or that know that a car is not a viable option in a densely populated city.
Imagine if everyone was on bikes and just you were in a car, I suspect there would be a lot less queuing for you. You can get six people on bikes in the space an average car takes, probably more as you dont need a lot of space around them, hence why places like India and Vietnam move a lot more people, they dont all feel the need or have the means for a premium SUV, they have a bike or a moped, smaller and more maneuverable, this is the crux of the issue.
In town and city centres, it is cars that are the problem but the whole debate seems to be, how can I make my journey, in my car more pleasant and quicker, never the thought you may be part of the problem and people using other modes of transport part of the answer.
I love cars and driving, they are great for moving people and stuff over long distances but utter crap in busy places, I see all the X5's, Ranger Rovers and
the like round here driving half a mile, there is the option, if able, to not use it, it is acceptable, I just walk or cycle, much less agro most of the time.
How about taxing journeys rather than fuel and cars?
Stop road tax, stop fuel tax at the pump.
Tax journeys.......
<1 mile jouney = eng size * 100p
1mile <> 10 mile = eng size * 80p
10miles <> 20miles = eng size * 60p
20miles <> 100 miles = eng size * 40p
>100 mile = eng size * 10p
So a 2ltr car being used for 10 return school journeys a week < 1 mile = £20. Being used to for 1 150mile journey = 20p.
Rates obviously need looking at but the incentive is to not use the car for local journeys.
Stop road tax, stop fuel tax at the pump.
Tax journeys.......
<1 mile jouney = eng size * 100p
1mile <> 10 mile = eng size * 80p
10miles <> 20miles = eng size * 60p
20miles <> 100 miles = eng size * 40p
>100 mile = eng size * 10p
So a 2ltr car being used for 10 return school journeys a week < 1 mile = £20. Being used to for 1 150mile journey = 20p.
Rates obviously need looking at but the incentive is to not use the car for local journeys.
I work in IT, so I could easily work from home. Yeah, I'll occasionally need to go to a client site, but 95% of my work is done remotely.
The problem is, my boss assumes i'll sit around in my pants all day watching netflix. Which is probably true. But if I complete all my work, so what? Why is it any different to the 50+% of the time i'm at work with nothing to do, reading pistonheads and drinking coffee waiting for some equipment somewhere to possibly break so I can go fix it? It's that pointless pressure to be "seen" to be doing something (same reason nobody wants to be first to leave at the end of the day) multiplied by 99% of the offices in this country that means we all need to sit in gridlock every day, wasting our lives.
The problem is, my boss assumes i'll sit around in my pants all day watching netflix. Which is probably true. But if I complete all my work, so what? Why is it any different to the 50+% of the time i'm at work with nothing to do, reading pistonheads and drinking coffee waiting for some equipment somewhere to possibly break so I can go fix it? It's that pointless pressure to be "seen" to be doing something (same reason nobody wants to be first to leave at the end of the day) multiplied by 99% of the offices in this country that means we all need to sit in gridlock every day, wasting our lives.
Dr Tad Winslow said:
I work in IT, so I could easily work from home. Yeah, I'll occasionally need to go to a client site, but 95% of my work is done remotely.
The problem is, my boss assumes i'll sit around in my pants all day watching netflix. Which is probably true. But if I complete all my work, so what? Why is it any different to the 50+% of the time i'm at work with nothing to do, reading pistonheads and drinking coffee waiting for some equipment somewhere to possibly break so I can go fix it? It's that pointless pressure to be "seen" to be doing something (same reason nobody wants to be first to leave at the end of the day) multiplied by 99% of the offices in this country that means we all need to sit in gridlock every day, wasting our lives.
The problem is all the control freak bosses who think they're lossing power and status by not having a room full of people to micro-manage. The problem is, my boss assumes i'll sit around in my pants all day watching netflix. Which is probably true. But if I complete all my work, so what? Why is it any different to the 50+% of the time i'm at work with nothing to do, reading pistonheads and drinking coffee waiting for some equipment somewhere to possibly break so I can go fix it? It's that pointless pressure to be "seen" to be doing something (same reason nobody wants to be first to leave at the end of the day) multiplied by 99% of the offices in this country that means we all need to sit in gridlock every day, wasting our lives.
I work from home a good deal of the time and I probably do more hours than in the office because i'm not doing 5 hours commuting a day. That 5 hours is invariably split between Netflix, Pistonheads and doing more work. I'm always available and answer emails or instant messages almost immediately. I'm also more relaxed and less tired from driving so my work quality is also higher. My work schedule is more On-Demand now, doing on-call, weekend work and not having to leave work at 5pm-6pm-7pm when there's a problem because I need to drive home....
Better all round and keeping another car off the road..... I used to do approx 40k miles a year. I've done less than 5k this year for work.
Flexible working start/stop times would help a bit, a half hour here and there would make a difference to me anyway.
Also police patrols on the motorways to help stop all the tailgating and bad driving especially from a
hole van drivers who seem to think their Tranny Van's are a cross between an F1 car and a Challenger Tank.
Also police patrols on the motorways to help stop all the tailgating and bad driving especially from a
hole van drivers who seem to think their Tranny Van's are a cross between an F1 car and a Challenger Tank.Jefferson Steelflex said:
Not going to help with motorways, but local congestion would be greatly improved by enforcing parents to send kids to the local school. Not many people live more than a mile or two from a school, but while you allow people to cherry-pick where the kids go, the roads get crammed up as the kids "need" to be driven in.
Around my way, where the schools are all allegedly top performers, people come from far and wide and the roads are murder. My LA, Havering, recently enforced public space protection orders around most of the schools (so no parking or dropping off), forcing people to instead park in nearby roads which is just passing the problem down the road.
Take away the school run in big towns and cities and it must make everything run better, surely?
Its gone the other way in some areas. In some towns it is the local authority forcing the parents to send their children to schools further away, and many have stopped the automatic enrollment of children into the school where they already have an older sibling, meaning that parents have to take children to two different schools, creating an unnecessary, as goes the law of unintended consequences. As some mentioned earlier in the thread, a combined approach would help resolve this. Around my way, where the schools are all allegedly top performers, people come from far and wide and the roads are murder. My LA, Havering, recently enforced public space protection orders around most of the schools (so no parking or dropping off), forcing people to instead park in nearby roads which is just passing the problem down the road.
Take away the school run in big towns and cities and it must make everything run better, surely?
But then for me; I'm still 5 years away from having to send a child to school, but the nearest school to where my wife and I live, is in the opposite direction to the route either of us take to work - so I am already doing a journey past a school on my way to work, so dropping off/picking up would add no extra congestion to that route. So I would look to put my child in the school that we both drive past already.
the cyclist debate in London is different to elsewhere for sure.
The cycle lanes are as bad as the bus lanes for reducing road width and therefore congestion for everyone (even the cyclists)
The London cyclist lanes now look really really dangerous! Too many bikes and too narrow really.
as for public transport being cheaper - I wouldn't use it, even if free.
As it is 30 minutes on bike to the office.............1.5 hours on public transport (door to door). I'm 10 miles away and it costs best part of 3k a year, after tax.
That's on a good day - it's horrendous most of the time with too many weirdos and drunks
The cycle lanes are as bad as the bus lanes for reducing road width and therefore congestion for everyone (even the cyclists)
The London cyclist lanes now look really really dangerous! Too many bikes and too narrow really.
as for public transport being cheaper - I wouldn't use it, even if free.
As it is 30 minutes on bike to the office.............1.5 hours on public transport (door to door). I'm 10 miles away and it costs best part of 3k a year, after tax.
That's on a good day - it's horrendous most of the time with too many weirdos and drunks
RacerMDR said:
That's on a good day - it's horrendous most of the time with too many weirdos and drunks
I had to get a bus about a year ago to pick up my car. Edinburgh has a decent bus system so I thought it'll be fine, middle of the day on a weekday, it'll be quiet etc.Nope. Smackhead on a comedown in the back on the phone complaining very loudly to his support worker that he was desperate for his fix. It sounds harsh, but I shouldn't have to be anywhere near these people. Park and rides are better as everyone has a car - so no junkies.
Fewer people.
Less need to commute (wfh / walk for short journeys / park and ride that's actually an attractive option).
A change in attitude on where you work vs where you live.
- perhaps choose a job that doesn't involve a huge commute?
- perhaps reduce transaction costs for house moves so people can more easily choose to move closer to work?
Less need to commute (wfh / walk for short journeys / park and ride that's actually an attractive option).
A change in attitude on where you work vs where you live.
- perhaps choose a job that doesn't involve a huge commute?
- perhaps reduce transaction costs for house moves so people can more easily choose to move closer to work?
The Singapore solution,
Decide how many private cars can be on the road and not cause congestion.
Divide by 10
Each year, issue that many car licenses in an auction for the right to own a car for 10 years. Drivers bid, but know if they win, they have congestion free motoring. Everyone else uses public transport.
Current market prices are about 25,000 quid for the ten year license.
Oh, and road pricing for the central business district (if you enter during working hours, couple of quid)
Decide how many private cars can be on the road and not cause congestion.
Divide by 10
Each year, issue that many car licenses in an auction for the right to own a car for 10 years. Drivers bid, but know if they win, they have congestion free motoring. Everyone else uses public transport.
Current market prices are about 25,000 quid for the ten year license.
Oh, and road pricing for the central business district (if you enter during working hours, couple of quid)
Edited by wisbech on Friday 20th October 15:14
wisbech said:
The Singapore solution,
Decide how many private cars can be on the road and not cause congestion.
Divide by 10
Each year, issue that many car licenses in an auction for the right to own a car for 10 years. Drivers bid, but know if they win, they have congestion free motoring. Everyone else uses public transport.
fake plates immediately Decide how many private cars can be on the road and not cause congestion.
Divide by 10
Each year, issue that many car licenses in an auction for the right to own a car for 10 years. Drivers bid, but know if they win, they have congestion free motoring. Everyone else uses public transport.
RacerMDR said:
fake plates immediately
No, because a dealer can't sell you a car without you having the permit. (nor can you import one without it) You can buy a second hand car with (say) 4 years of permit left. There are oddities - i.e. cheaper permit (and distinctive number plates) for weekend only driving, or for "collectors" a permit that only allows 28 days of driving a year. (and again, distinctive number plates) With the number of CCTV, you would be brave to risk trying to cheat,
PTF said:
blearyeyedboy said:
Oh, and come up with motorised but narrower vehicles with a roof for people who don't want to be bikers.
I'll have a Carver One, if anyone's offering.
Here's an example of what i'm on about in terms of bikes being viewed as a leisure activity that Bikers do. It's not about "being a biker", it's about picking the most suitable form of transport for your needs. If a narrow vehicle that can filter through traffic, return 70mpg, cost nothing to park and cheap to buy is the best form of transport, why does that also come with having to adopt the "i'm a biker" label?I'll have a Carver One, if anyone's offering.
I'm sure not everyone wants to give it a go, and it's not always suitable for rain/wind/snow, but even if 10% of car drivers switched to a bike for commuting we'd all be much happier.
Narrower vehicles like bikes would reduce congestion, but the majority of commuters currently want their own box with central heating, and more than two wheels. If people can be persuaded to motorcycle then great, but for those who can't or won't then vehicles like the Carver might. Or something like it, since Carver never made it. Something between a BMW C1 and a Twizzy, perhaps?
wisbech said:
RacerMDR said:
fake plates immediately
No, because a dealer can't sell you a car without you having the permit. (nor can you import one without it) You can buy a second hand car with (say) 4 years of permit left. There are oddities - i.e. cheaper permit (and distinctive number plates) for weekend only driving, or for "collectors" a permit that only allows 28 days of driving a year. (and again, distinctive number plates) With the number of CCTV, you would be brave to risk trying to cheat,
J4CKO said:
Promote cycling and walking more, so many journeys and tasks can be done without a car if able bodied and not carrying loads of stuff. How many people spending 30/40 mins to drive 2 or 3 miles are there, worked with loads, "traffic was murder today, took me an hour to get in", er, dont you live just round the corner ?
Plan roadworks better, its chaos round here due to several big projects that seemingly were not coordinated.
Promote working from home more.
Promote being less of a selfish ahole.
I think the real issue is that cars are too big, one average sized person usually, driving something the size of a small bungalow in a lot of cases, all that road space to move one person, not an issue a lot of the time, but get a few together and its gridlock, maybe a few hundred people stuck waiting to get where they are going, if all those folk were stood together, they would only take up the space of maybe five cars, motorbikes are a better solution but leave you open to the elements and injury.
Kind of need, small, safe autonomous pod type things, in different sizes for differing numbers of people, with a central system that works to get the maximum number of people moved in the shortest times, like Ants are cooperative, not like Gareth in his X5 charging down the queue of traffic as he needs to get to his next sales meeting.
Couldn't agree more with planning works betterPlan roadworks better, its chaos round here due to several big projects that seemingly were not coordinated.
Promote working from home more.
Promote being less of a selfish a
hole.I think the real issue is that cars are too big, one average sized person usually, driving something the size of a small bungalow in a lot of cases, all that road space to move one person, not an issue a lot of the time, but get a few together and its gridlock, maybe a few hundred people stuck waiting to get where they are going, if all those folk were stood together, they would only take up the space of maybe five cars, motorbikes are a better solution but leave you open to the elements and injury.
Kind of need, small, safe autonomous pod type things, in different sizes for differing numbers of people, with a central system that works to get the maximum number of people moved in the shortest times, like Ants are cooperative, not like Gareth in his X5 charging down the queue of traffic as he needs to get to his next sales meeting.
I kid you not.... where I work, its a university town. In the summer, its dead. No school traffic, much less uni traffic. Perfect time to do road maintenence then. Nope. They closed the main road for resurfacing work pretty much the week everyone came back. Its currently half term, so again traffic has eased. So of course they're closing some major roads into our village next week, when everyone is back at it.
Couldn't make it up. Even better they do these traffic studies where they turn the traffic lights off on some of the roundabouts and it flows like water. Solution, put them back on and build another traffic light roundabout down the road!
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