RE: BMW M5 (E39): PH Heroes
Discussion
In regards to the costs i ran one of these for 4 years, approx 40k miles and countless track days and it needed nothing apart from consumables and a couple of oil breather pipes in that time.
The car is still going strong now, i actually tried to buy it back recently but was a few days too late.
M5 MXL, you are missed.
The car is still going strong now, i actually tried to buy it back recently but was a few days too late.
M5 MXL, you are missed.
alorotom said:
FFS is the E39 appreciation society paying for all these stories ... best car ever, PH heroes
What a load of utter b
ks - they’re old, past their best, not particularly pretty (subjective yes) and are now a massive PH cliche along with the MX5
Ok, everybody is wrong including top motoring journalists What a load of utter b
ks - they’re old, past their best, not particularly pretty (subjective yes) and are now a massive PH cliche along with the MX5I miss mine. The most comfortable, refined, complient and docile car when you want and then an animal when you're in the mood.
It was never about 0-60 times in the M5. Loads of cars could hold their own against it, however, get to 80 and it suddenly starts to get into it's stride. Get to 120 and very very few cars would be keeping up. Even at 150 it still kept pulling at the same rate!
Loved the subtle looks and even the handling. While not as agile as my e46 M3, you could still easily hustle it down A & B roads and it was very predictable.
I think it totally deserves it's 'cult' status. If I has garage space I'd happily have another.
It was never about 0-60 times in the M5. Loads of cars could hold their own against it, however, get to 80 and it suddenly starts to get into it's stride. Get to 120 and very very few cars would be keeping up. Even at 150 it still kept pulling at the same rate!
Loved the subtle looks and even the handling. While not as agile as my e46 M3, you could still easily hustle it down A & B roads and it was very predictable.
I think it totally deserves it's 'cult' status. If I has garage space I'd happily have another.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I don't know anyone who buys an e39 M5 now (or when new) for monstering slip roads (whatever that might mean!) or pulling away on autobahns - loads of cars can do that with little skill other than a good power / weight ratio - and appropriate torque levels...everyone I know who has one / has had one (and I know lots and have one myself!) bought it so that they could do all you describe - travel long distances, and then continue to have fun on the twisties the other end - the E55 is a capable car, but unless you plan to live at Santa Pod, a car, has to do more than just be fast in a straight line... especially in the UK where we have 70mph speed limits / no autobahn and lots of twisty roads! It is easy to find cars which are the best on track / on B roads / long distance / fast in a straight line / etc. - but to have one car which performs so well across so many elements is really unusual - that is where any greatness the e39 M5 may have comes from...
For those who love it - the exercise is simple - compare against other cars - any other car and see which one falls first because it is not good enough (not needing to be best, but a minimum of good enough) - e.g. XKR - I love these, but it is basically a 2-door / 2-seater v. the 4 door / 5-seater M5 and it has an auto not a manual - off the list. I went through this exercise earlier this year - I wanted a long list of things from a car and the M5 delivered them all - nothing else on the market did - plenty of cars I would love to own for a specific reason (e.g. design / speed / handling) in each of which the M5 may not be the best on paper - but as an overall proposition it is pretty awesome... last month I drove to London and back - then up to Northumberland and back all in a weekend - 800 miles - motorway / a-roads / b-roads / un-named roads / city driving in central London / fast open country roads / gnarly bends and tight corners - the M5 took the lot in its stride and was the right car in each situation - maybe not the best in each situation, but for any one setting a car which would have been better would have been flawed in other settings...
I've had two BMW E39 M5's and I currently have an MB W211 E55.
The cars are very different to each other in many ways.
The M5 was imo the bench mark. Quick in a straight line and in the corners. Today less so. A well fettled 335i will show it a clean pair in both. The cabin is not dated imo, although the standard audio is st. It can be improved upon if you want to go through the hassle of doing so. The seats are excellent, I found the driving position to be excellent and there was enough room for 4 adults comfortably.
Styling wise it is imo the 2nd best looking M5. The E28 takes the crown here. From any angle the E39 is a good looking car.
Handling I always thought was a bit wallowy in standard form, though that may be in part due to the 106k mile old springs and struts.
The engine sounds great, but it would as it is n/a. It could do with more power imo however. Yes it is 394bhp, but it is also in a heavy car. To get the best from it you needed to use the gearbox.
They rust like an 80's Ford Escort though. Properly rust, and once rust has taken hold you'll never get rid of it.
People say above that they're not meant for daily use, but they're not special enough as just a weekend car.
I miss owning one despite how much I used to complain about it
I will never own another though, I am too used to the sledge hammer that is in the E55. A simple remap and pulley has taken my car from 469bhp to 522bhp and over 630lbft of torque. It would be around 550bhp but it was suffering high intake temps when dyno'd. That is a lot and it shows. Touch the throttle pedal and it moves quickly. Mash it to the floor and the world gets blurry. The supercharger whine is addictive, the engine sounds good and seems to be better built and less fragile than the S62, being able to take over 700bhp without needing to be opened up. The S62 cannot take the same power without internal work and will never give the same amount of torque.
The engine in the E55K is pretty much the same as the n/a one which is 354bhp. Take the supercharger away and the engine is less powerful than the one in the M5.
The E55 is better specc'd, the audio is 1000 times better. I like the dymanic seats. I dislike the steering wheel, it is too big and I would prefer a manual gearbox for the times I'd like one, but the auto is fine for the 95%. It is a bit slow to change up and mine has had the tcu remap, but it is an old style box. The E55 doesn't look as good as the M5 either. I prefer the M5 interior but the E55's isn't bad. It does feel like a big car, but having folding rear seats is a massive advantage for me. I have missed that feature.
In closing, people will like the M5, they will not. Some people like Corsa's...
The cars are very different to each other in many ways.
The M5 was imo the bench mark. Quick in a straight line and in the corners. Today less so. A well fettled 335i will show it a clean pair in both. The cabin is not dated imo, although the standard audio is s
t. It can be improved upon if you want to go through the hassle of doing so. The seats are excellent, I found the driving position to be excellent and there was enough room for 4 adults comfortably.Styling wise it is imo the 2nd best looking M5. The E28 takes the crown here. From any angle the E39 is a good looking car.
Handling I always thought was a bit wallowy in standard form, though that may be in part due to the 106k mile old springs and struts.
The engine sounds great, but it would as it is n/a. It could do with more power imo however. Yes it is 394bhp, but it is also in a heavy car. To get the best from it you needed to use the gearbox.
They rust like an 80's Ford Escort though. Properly rust, and once rust has taken hold you'll never get rid of it.
People say above that they're not meant for daily use, but they're not special enough as just a weekend car.
I miss owning one despite how much I used to complain about it
I will never own another though, I am too used to the sledge hammer that is in the E55. A simple remap and pulley has taken my car from 469bhp to 522bhp and over 630lbft of torque. It would be around 550bhp but it was suffering high intake temps when dyno'd. That is a lot and it shows. Touch the throttle pedal and it moves quickly. Mash it to the floor and the world gets blurry. The supercharger whine is addictive, the engine sounds good and seems to be better built and less fragile than the S62, being able to take over 700bhp without needing to be opened up. The S62 cannot take the same power without internal work and will never give the same amount of torque.The engine in the E55K is pretty much the same as the n/a one which is 354bhp. Take the supercharger away and the engine is less powerful than the one in the M5.
The E55 is better specc'd, the audio is 1000 times better. I like the dymanic seats. I dislike the steering wheel, it is too big and I would prefer a manual gearbox for the times I'd like one, but the auto is fine for the 95%. It is a bit slow to change up and mine has had the tcu remap, but it is an old style box. The E55 doesn't look as good as the M5 either. I prefer the M5 interior but the E55's isn't bad. It does feel like a big car, but having folding rear seats is a massive advantage for me. I have missed that feature.
In closing, people will like the M5, they will not. Some people like Corsa's...
TheAngryDog said:
...
The engine sounds great, but it would as it is n/a. It could do with more power imo however. Yes it is 394bhp, but it is also in a heavy car. To get the best from it you needed to use the gearbox.
...
I miss owning one despite how much I used to complain about it I will never own another though, I am too used to the sledge hammer that is in the E55. A simple remap and pulley has taken my car from 469bhp to 522bhp and over 630lbft of torque. It would be around 550bhp but it was suffering high intake temps when dyno'd. That is a lot and it shows. Touch the throttle pedal and it moves quickly. Mash it to the floor and the world gets blurry. The supercharger whine is addictive, the engine sounds good and seems to be better built and less fragile than the S62, being able to take over 700bhp without needing to be opened up. The S62 cannot take the same power without internal work and will never give the same amount of torque.
The engine in the E55K is pretty much the same as the n/a one which is 354bhp. Take the supercharger away and the engine is less powerful than the one in the M5.
(lots of good bits removed...)The engine sounds great, but it would as it is n/a. It could do with more power imo however. Yes it is 394bhp, but it is also in a heavy car. To get the best from it you needed to use the gearbox.
...
I miss owning one despite how much I used to complain about it
I will never own another though, I am too used to the sledge hammer that is in the E55. A simple remap and pulley has taken my car from 469bhp to 522bhp and over 630lbft of torque. It would be around 550bhp but it was suffering high intake temps when dyno'd. That is a lot and it shows. Touch the throttle pedal and it moves quickly. Mash it to the floor and the world gets blurry. The supercharger whine is addictive, the engine sounds good and seems to be better built and less fragile than the S62, being able to take over 700bhp without needing to be opened up. The S62 cannot take the same power without internal work and will never give the same amount of torque.The engine in the E55K is pretty much the same as the n/a one which is 354bhp. Take the supercharger away and the engine is less powerful than the one in the M5.
I believe that quite a few people have supercharged the e39 M5 giving c. 600hp/700Nm - otherwise you are not comparing the same
handling on a good e39M5 is really good - you do need to manage the weight balance, so get it wrong and it can feel out of sorts - get it right - i.e. drive well!
and they are fantastic - they are definitely a driver's car that require one to drive well...TheAngryDog said:
In closing, people will like the M5, they will not. Some people like Corsa's...
not a big fan of Corsas! but agree with you...TheAngryDog said:
They rust like an 80's Ford Escort though. Properly rust, and once rust has taken hold you'll never get rid of it.
That's true unfortunately, all e39's I've had have been rusty to some extent apart from the M5. I know that the UK also get bad/cold weather during the winter but probably not as severe as in Sweden. Due to the really bad winter roads in basically the southern 1/3 of the country very few of the ones here have been driven during the winter with the salt and grit. Really far north they don't salt the roads due to the cold, and cars there don't suffer from rust (as much in general),Mine have never been driven in the winter and the underside looks like this. Moral of the story, get one that has been driven during the summer months only if possible.
PowerslideSWE said:
That's true unfortunately, all e39's I've had have been rusty to some extent apart from the M5. I know that the UK also get bad/cold weather during the winter but probably not as severe as in Sweden. Due to the really bad winter roads in basically the southern 1/3 of the country very few of the ones here have been driven during the winter with the salt and grit. Really far north they don't salt the roads due to the cold, and cars there don't suffer from rust (as much in general),
Mine have never been driven in the winter and the underside looks like this. Moral of the story, get one that has been driven during the summer months only if possible.
Although it is very clean looking, that picture doesn't really show any of the bits that rust! It shows a nice clean plastic battery tray and nice clean shiny after market stainless steel silencers. Drop exhaust, fuel tank and rear sub-frame and see what the body looks like under there!Mine have never been driven in the winter and the underside looks like this. Moral of the story, get one that has been driven during the summer months only if possible.
akirk said:
...the M5 took the lot in its stride and was the right car in each situation - maybe not the best in each situation, but for any one setting a car which would have been better would have been flawed in other settings...
Superb post, and bang on the money. Show me another car that has the breadth of the E39's abilities...it is close to excellent in almost every environment.It is far more than the sum of its (already considerable) parts, which is why talk of BHP and 0-60 times is completely missing the point.
And...it's a MANUAL
Max_Torque said:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the Supercharged W211 E55 AMG come out in early 2004? That's over 4 years after the E39 M5, and makes it a competitor for the E60 M5 (released in 2005) shirely?
The contemporary W210 E55 had just 350 bhp from an N/A V8 didn't it?
Early 2003 test featured the supercharged E55The contemporary W210 E55 had just 350 bhp from an N/A V8 didn't it?
s m said:
Max_Torque said:
Correct me if i'm wrong, but didn't the Supercharged W211 E55 AMG come out in early 2004? That's over 4 years after the E39 M5, and makes it a competitor for the E60 M5 (released in 2005) shirely?
The contemporary W210 E55 had just 350 bhp from an N/A V8 didn't it?
Early 2003 test featured the supercharged E55The contemporary W210 E55 had just 350 bhp from an N/A V8 didn't it?
Says it all really!
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